Why does it take so long to get obvious things players want?

[Sansnom]

I dont hate Blizzard, but their complacency and the level to which they are out of touch with their core player base is astounding at times, but nothing new. I dont even need to explain, Blizzard do it for us on a regular basis:

"Core player base".

So others do not matter then. They are not important as the others. Why? And what qualifies a person to be a "Core player base."

"you think you do, but you dont"
"the players dont actually know what they want"
"Players often think they want something, but in reality, they end up becoming bored and quitting"
"dont you guys have phones?"

And that is partially true.

Some players wanted a grind like some other MMO. We got that. We got the AP grind. Then players complained.
Some players wanted raids without trash. Just the boss. We got that. We got ToGC. Then players complained.
Some players wanted guaranteed legendary. We got the legendary. Then players complained legendary not longer feel like legendary. Everyone has one.

Phone market is growing. Why should they not invest development into this growing market? PC gaming is generally smaller than the console gaming. Have they stopped development for the PC?

[Ghostile]

"dont you guys have phones?"

I love this argument.

It's almost like mobile wasn't the biggest gaming platform by a large margin.

Of course anyone with a brain wants to tap into that market.

[Vargulf the Happy Husky]

i feel like the mount changes that are coming up soon should have been put in place during MoP, or whenever the first mount came out that could do something special other than fly.

i've always wondered wtf they were thinking there, and then they were even going to remove the waterstriders ability to water walk at WoD launch. WTH MAN?!

[Shaetha]

Hey, just wanna point out that im not talking about forum posters. You realize there are other ways people get opinions? I even pointed out sepcifically that i dont particularly value the opinions put forward on a fansite / forum, because obviously those are the "diehard fans". Kinda derails your whole argument there but it had to be pointed out.

That was only a small part of my argument. Why do you reply if you don't wish to have discussion?

[Fabinas]

I love this argument.

It's almost like mobile wasn't the biggest gaming platform by a large margin.

Of course anyone with a brain wants to tap into that market.

Of course.

Of course anyone with a brain doesn't announce a mobile game into a PC user convention (which is Blizzcon since its inception) and expect cheerful acceptance.

[Sondrelk]

Of course.

Of course anyone with a brain doesn't announce a mobile game into a PC user convention (which is Blizzcon since its inception) and expect cheerful acceptance.

It's easy to say that in hindsight.
Blizzard had no way of really knowing the backlash would have been so immense, from a purely business standpoint, they announced a new diablo game, not for the platform people want, but console games have been doing this for decades and noone seems to complain too much when a game switches console.

Now that Blizzard stepped onto the landmine of announcing mobile stuff, i expect no other devs to make the same mistake without being profoundly thick.

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There is also the fact that Blizz probably intended to announce a new mainline game eventually, but when it got delayed or whatever they decided to announce teh mobile version instead, in theory it oculd have worked.

[huth]

Now that Blizzard stepped onto the landmine of announcing mobile stuff, i expect no other devs to make the same mistake without being profoundly thick.

Somebody has to discover there's a minefield before people can avoid it.

[Sondrelk]

Somebody has to discover there's a minefield before people can avoid it.

Pretty much

[arkanon]

I love this argument.

It's almost like mobile wasn't the biggest gaming platform by a large margin.

Of course anyone with a brain wants to tap into that market.

I love this argument - like porn isnt one of the biggest industries in the world - why wouldnt Blizzard want to tap into that market? Beside the obvious holes in your argument, anyone with a brain would know that Blizzcon is NOT the time and place to announce a mobile game based on one of their core franchises that is traditionally PC based, especially being very aware that there was expectations of an announcement around Diablo 4 or a new Diablo 3 expansion.

I dont actually personally know anyone who thinks diablo immortal is a bad idea - its literally a reskin of an existing game, all they have done is sell the rights to the franchise for this project, and they will make mind boggling money from the Asian market. The part we cant get our heads around is who the fuck in marketing thought it should be the premier announcement of their biggest gaming convention, one traditionally with a focus on PC gaming, although obviously Hearthstone, Over watch, and Diablo are now all ported to various OS.

Diablo immortal is fine - it will make amazing amounts of money - the argument being made is that the target market for that product was NOT in the room that day when they announced it. If announced at a Con in Asia, the reception would no doubt have been FAR more positive, and they should have been aware of that.

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I'm sure Blizzard would if the majority wanted the same thing. I'm being ambitious here and saying WoW has 3 million subs - you really think they all want the same things?

And this obviously is an issue - But many have stated before that they have been catering to the fringe players and ignoring the core for too long, and that is part of the reason the player base has been decimated. Obviously you cannot make everyone happy - but you should be trying to make the core players happy - and that is absolutely a group that blizzard can quantify and easily see what content is completed by the majority of players and say "right guys, these are the bread and butter of wow players, lets try to hone in on their feedback" - the challenge then is how the identify that feedback - pretty simple if using official wow channels and forums, much, much harder when using fan sites and anything with any level of anonymity.

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i feel like the mount changes that are coming up soon should have been put in place during MoP, or whenever the first mount came out that could do something special other than fly.

i've always wondered wtf they were thinking there, and then they were even going to remove the waterstriders ability to water walk at WoD launch. WTH MAN?!

Its obviously an idea they have been toying with for a long time - i think they have chosen an extremely strange time to launch a system like this - as part of an announcement trailer for a new expac i would expect there to be some level of hype - announced as a clumsy mid expac 'feature' is a very strange tacked on feeling.

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....and once more, random posters think they KNOW what people want, based on stuff they agree with on forums or their favorite streamers.

Hint: You cannot even have people here agree on a simple "flying yes / no" question. Whatever thread you go in, chances are the forum gods smile upon you and you get back to back posts like

"xyz is the worst shit ever"

"xyz is why I still play every day"

Or you get awesome feedback like "Just make the game fun again"

There has been a pretty consistent theme of people not enjoying the vessels through which they experience the world - the classes. Sure, there isnt a whole lot of agreement on how to fix the classes, but there has been a pretty constant push back from Blizzard since EARLY BETA when players first started giving feedback about the specs feeling hollow and unfinished. Nothing was done.
They said 'wait for the azurite traits before making judgements' but then held off releasing anything to do with the azerite traits. Once they FINALLY released azerite traits, the same testers said "nope, these are just passives blizzard, this hasnt addressed our concerns at all"
But again Blizzard pushed back and said "those are just leveling azerite traits, wait for the M+ and raid ones!" when they FINALLY showed them, the same testers said "no Blizzard, again this hasnt added anything meaningful to the specs, many of them still feel shallow and unfinished" to which Blizzard again pushed back, saying that those are only the EARLY ones, and they will improve. They didnt.

Since launch, many people have been making similar comments in line with the concerns from early beta, and still Blizzard pushed back until FINALLY admitting they got it wrong, the system hadnt worked out how they planned, and they were overhauling their brand new system mid expac to address concerns. This is an example of too little too late - for some, the damage is done and they are gone. Maybe they will return, maybe they wont. Maybe they will be replaced by new players, maybe they wont.

Some will obviously disagree and say everything is fine and sip their tea - but this is a pretty good example of Blizzard not listening to feedback from before the expac even launched. If Blizzard are unable to identify good feedback vs back feedback, thats on them, not the community. Other games have been able to recover from absolutely disastrous launches by simply responding to feedback, acknowledging issues, and changing the game - FF14 is just ONE example, but there are others. Warframe comes to mind as well.

[Nfinitii]

Do you think it's actually intentional for the game to be more of a pain in the ass than it should be?

Seriously though. Legion legendaries. Since LAUNCH of 7.0... people wanted a currency. I think I even remember people asking during beta for targeting collection methods. The entire expansion goes by, finally a currency.

People always liked upgrading their gear. For years, they remove it and we finally get something like that back with 8.2.

I'm sure everyone can come up with a few other examples.

My questions are:

• Does it feel like the WoW devs have to constantly re-learn what players want?
• Is it intentional to make aggravating things to extend content?
• Do they think they know better?

PVP vendors?

"Players don't know where the vendor is"

Just do an intro quest to show people where to go or talk to a guard... these methods have been in the game for years.


I was interested in resubbing for 8.2, but occasionally I think about all of the really dumb things about the game and I'm like nah I'll stick to something else.

I honestly think it’s two things.

1. Players complain about something and blizzard doesn’t understand where the problem is. Legion Legendaries, a lot of players hated the system, some the system overall and some the acquisition. So blizzard just removes the whole thing.

2. Blizzard identifies a problem, but it’s more a developer problem than a player problem. Removal of gear vendors, actually saw a video where blizzard said it was a problem. Too many vendors or players not knowing where they r at, but I’ve never heard this complaint from players before. Ironically blizzard actually points to wowhead for a lot of player problems in their ticket system.

Gearing, blizzard said that legion didn’t give u any choices of what gear goes where, artifact weapon, 2 legendaries, set pieces took up too many gear slots. Enter bfa, all gear is the same and boring.

This is also y u c such large class changes every expansion. They feel they have to change things up so the players don’t get board.

[Ringthane]

I was interested in resubbing for 8.2, but occasionally I think about all of the really dumb things about the game and I'm like nah I'll stick to something else.

Well, good for you. I'm so happy you're able to make personal choices. Only took you how many years to figure out what the rest of us have been able to do for decades.

The fact that you think we're supposed to be awestruck by your decision is still puzzling, though.

[Powerogue]

Game design takes time. Same reason players going "my class is aids now!" are left with "well you'll have to wait until next expansion we can't just overhaul you in a patch."

It's not the answer you want but I guarantee that's their answer.

[MrKnubbles]

?? Yes you can, actually. Because by not doing it, the game sits in a terrible limbo of boring and forever bad reviews.

That's your opinion. There may be features you want to be implemented that other players don't. What about what they want?

[gobio]

Legendary system was what kept the last expansion alive.

I spent countless hours doing emerald nightmare normal / heroic, it is otherwise pointless (with chance of legendary) but I kind of want to spend the time that way from time to time. Without chance of legendary, none of that public casual raid would have happened. Legendary is the one evil that kept people doing what they want in the game. WQ, dungeon, easy raids, even PVP different route to spend your evening all to achieve the same goal. without this one evil, the system magically collapse, funny that.

[Super Kami Dende]

Because things you obviously want, might not be what everyone obviously wants.

Need to remember that even Forum posters are a vast Minority of the Population.

[Freighter]

It depends on how you qualify 'new.' Pretty much everything introduced from Legion onwards has some kind of gating mechanism behind it. To list a few: AP, WQs, WF/TFing and Titan Residuum all seem to be designed with the main purpose being to keep people logging back in. And WoW Classic seems to be developed almost exclusively to give players who may have otherwise unsubbed a reason to keep paying $15/mo.

Then they're failing hard at that. There's nobody even playing WoW any more on my friend list. Everyone has quit. At the start of BFA, almost everyone on my friend list was playing WoW daily.

[ShimmerSwirl]

-Blizzard needs to create easy content because current players cannot tolerate challenge
-The problem with easy content is it does not last very long
-Blizzard timegates or grindgates basic game features in order to make the content last longer

That is WoW's current design philosophy in a nutshell, and also why WoW currently sucks.

[Freighter]

Too much importance is laid on people leaving. Blizzard has basic data on how many people sign up for expansions and are expected to leave; how many will come back for patches; how many will leave for good. They can budget pessimistically for that. As long as expansion sales continue at the level they have been I imagine it's a pretty close thing that nearly 100% of subscriptions are profit. Expansions pay for themselves before the first week is done.

I'm quite sure that Blizzard would like for people to hang around more but it's pretty unlikely at this point that they are in any sort of panic over people leaving. The suits will be fine if WoW hits its forecast. It's up to the devs to figure out how to make the game surpass that. I think they are doing a rather weak job on that front but others can disagree and it's an arguable point.

Just as a reminder here; We don't pay for expansions in South Korea, only game time.

[Varitok]

Bad team leading WoW right now honestly. Though, I do like Jeremy. He has some sort of energy when he was present 8.2 that I really liked, He seems genuinely excited about showing the content and not like it's another job to him. I've always liked him personally, I hope he gets a chance at being Game Director one day.

[Epicpopsicle]

The reality with a treadmil is ....it is the same track over and over