What if N'zoth dies? [8.2 Spoilers]

[Kallisto]

Old Gods don't and can't die, quest text from a decade ago vs official Lore books(aka Chronicles) hmm I think I'll listen to the more recent source of factual information. We already know that Yogg Saron is still remotely active, this was shown in Ulduar(when we went there with Magni) and through the Emerald Nightmare which is his "active corruption" and that it will continue to come back(which is directly quoted from Xal'atath). In reference to what you're trying to get at, it's a physical manifestation that she's referring to, we know that Old Gods do not and cannot die, even when forceably pulled out of the planet.

The yogg stuff were echos. Echos are not alive. Blizzard have stated time and again that we killed C'thun and Yogg. No one doubts that Y'Saarj was killed and he still is able to communicate (so was the skull of Gul'dan and no one doubt MU Gul'dan was killed too.). Yogg confirms his own death for crying out loud "The shadow of my corpse will choke this land for all eternity." Can't be a corpse if you're not dead.

The nightmare now is run by N'zoth. Xalatath states he's the only one left to be the ultimate victor.

This whole "Old Gods don't die." comes from ramblings of their crazed followers. The worst people to take for objective comments about them.

[formerShandalay]

When she almost killed Arthas? In the novel the whole thing was one sided by the scourge without any real problem, Arthas in another hand almost killed Kael'thas with his legendary flame sword and being an powerful mage that could match Antonidas or even be more powerful after Outland, besides he defeated Illidan which is wayyyy more powerful than undead Sylvanas.

Now after saying that, we don't know that end-game that is being hyped by the writers but BFA has foreshadow that Sylvanas plans in this expansion will fail, no matter what, so that only leaves some option, her soul will be used as some bridge to the shadowlands, that way N'zoth could enslave some death god or create some version of the nightmare in the shadowlands.

Sylvanas ambushed Arthas after she had broken free from him and there he had to be saved by Kel'thuzad to get away. She almost killed him, but wanted to taunt him a bit before that, which is why he got away. I think Aucald was referring to that, not their fight in Quel'thalas when Arthas killed her.

[Kallisto]

When she almost killed Arthas? In the novel the whole thing was one sided by the scourge without any real problem, Arthas in another hand almost killed Kael'thas with his legendary flame sword and being an powerful mage that could match Antonidas or even be more powerful after Outland, besides he defeated Illidan which is wayyyy more powerful than undead Sylvanas.

Now after saying that, we don't know that end-game that is being hyped by the writers but BFA has foreshadow that Sylvanas plans in this expansion will fail, no matter what, so that only leaves some option, her soul will be used as some bridge to the shadowlands, that way N'zoth could enslave some death god or create some version of the nightmare in the shadowlands.

When Arthas was called back to Northrend Sylvanas was able to ambush him and defeat him. He pleaded for a quick death but she him to endure the pain he gave her. But before she could do anything kel'thuzad appeared

https://worldofwarcraft.fandom.com/e...as%27_Farewell

[Zyky]

This whole "Old Gods don't die." comes from ramblings of their crazed followers. The worst people to take for objective comments about them.

It is literally stated in Chronicle, AKA the Lore books.

[Jastall]

When Arthas was called back to Northrend Sylvanas was able to ambush him and defeat him. He pleaded for a quick death but she him to endure the pain he gave her. But before she could do anything kel'thuzad appeared

https://worldofwarcraft.fandom.com/e...as%27_Farewell

To be fair she ambushed and hit him with a special poisoned arrow beforehand and thus had a massive advantage. Arthas was also not the Lich King yet, in that form temporarily stunning him so that the party could escape is the best she could do, which is on par with that Jaina did before she also got various DBZ power level upgrades.

Sylvanas definitely isn't able to take on N'zoth, at least not 1v1, but I strongly doubt that's her plan at all. She would either serve him with extra benefits as Azshara did, be manipulated by him (most likely) or try a convoluted scheme to trap and obtain his power which, if her track record is any indication, has a 99.9% chance to fail spectacularly.

[Aucald]

When she almost killed Arthas? In the novel the whole thing was one sided by the scourge without any real problem, Arthas in another hand almost killed Kael'thas with his legendary flame sword and being an powerful mage that could match Antonidas or even be more powerful after Outland, besides he defeated Illidan which is wayyyy more powerful than undead Sylvanas.

WC3: TFT's Undead campaign, in the chapter titled "Sylvanas' Farewell." Arthas is preparing to leave Lordaeron at the Lich King's behest, when he is attacked by Scourge forces loyal to the three Dreadlords Balnazzar, Detheroc, and Varimathras. Sylvanas' banshee minions come to his aid, but it is the prelude to a trap. Sylvanas hits Arthas with a specially prepared poison arrow that paralyzes him, and is moments from delivered a coup de grace before she her forces are scattered by Kel'thuzad with a regiment of loyal Scourge in tow.

Now after saying that, we don't know that end-game that is being hyped by the writers but BFA has foreshadow that Sylvanas plans in this expansion will fail, no matter what, so that only leaves some option, her soul will be used as some bridge to the shadowlands, that way N'zoth could enslave some death god or create some version of the nightmare in the shadowlands.

I don't doubt Sylvanas will fail, especially if she is opposed by both the Horde and Alliance (as well as all life on Azeroth). As I said before, she's far more powerful than a banshee or even a banshee hero or champion, but she's neither invulnerable nor is she a demigod. She wouldn't be easy to take out but there are a variety of beings within the Warcraft universe against which she is no match - both singularly or collectively.

[Biotec]

To be fair she ambushed and hit him with a special poisoned arrow beforehand and thus had a massive advantage. Arthas was also not the Lich King yet, in that form temporarily stunning him so that the party could escape is the best she could do, which is on par with that Jaina did before she also got various DBZ power level upgrades.

Also that was during the time when Arthas' powers were on a downward spiral because of the crack in the Lich King's ice. Arthas was far weaker than when he killed her the first time.

[Kallisto]

To be fair she ambushed and hit him with a special poisoned arrow beforehand and thus had a massive advantage. Arthas was also not the Lich King yet, in that form temporarily stunning him so that the party could escape is the best she could do, which is on par with that Jaina did before she also got various DBZ power level upgrades.

Sylvanas definitely isn't able to take on N'zoth, at least not 1v1, but I strongly doubt that's her plan at all. She would either serve him with extra benefits as Azshara did, be manipulated by him (most likely) or try a convoluted scheme to trap and obtain his power which, if her track record is any indication, has a 99.9% chance to fail spectacularly.

While true the whole argument was on Sylvanas vs Death Knight Arthas, not lich king Arthas.

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It is literally stated in Chronicle, AKA the Lore books.

Care to quote where. I have all three and saw no point where they say old gods don't die.

[kendro1200]

I'm assuming you didn't play the war of thorns where she manages to hold her ground against someone light years more powerful than she is?

She also has enough plot armor that some of it is weaponized at this point. There is a writer on the team that wants to make her Kerrigan 3.0, three times the cartoon evil, three times the taunting the audience, three times the redemption. Apparently the writer himself has plot armor, because no one has fired him yet.

All of this leading to the point of: It is entirely possible that Blizzard will have Sylvannas solo N'Zoth, because the power of death makes her resistant to corruption.
Now while any sane person will say, "Resistant doesn't mean immune to, or make something the kryptonite of something else." There is that one writer who will not get that memo, and forget what words mean...again...and have Sylvannas swoop in and stab N'Zoth in an attempt to copy a scene from GoT again.

[Trient]

She will prove herself to be more capable than all of the Titan Keepers and Titanforged army, who had failed to elminate the Old Gods threat. Uldir was the pinnacle of their waste.

[Varodoc]

What is this, Game of Thrones? Come on, it's OBVIOUS that N'Zoth will survive 8.2 and be the main antagonist of the last half of Battle for Azeroth/Next expansion, as that slide with him at Blizzcon clearly showed. They aren't going to subvert anyone's expectations.

[Aeula]

Then we’ll kill Sylvanas for daring to take our loot and that’s the segue Blizzard will use to get loyalists to rebel.

[Terongor]

When she almost killed Arthas? In the novel the whole thing was one sided by the scourge without any real problem, Arthas in another hand almost killed Kael'thas with his legendary flame sword and being an powerful mage that could match Antonidas or even be more powerful after Outland, besides he defeated Illidan which is wayyyy more powerful than undead Sylvanas.

Now after saying that, we don't know that end-game that is being hyped by the writers but BFA has foreshadow that Sylvanas plans in this expansion will fail, no matter what, so that only leaves some option, her soul will be used as some bridge to the shadowlands, that way N'zoth could enslave some death god or create some version of the nightmare in the shadowlands.

In the novels kael'thas dominated the fight and arthas only managed to get a lucky shot with the trick muradin taught him. Arthas couldn't even get a one shot before that and even tried to provoke Kael'thas to make him sloppy and even that failed. Arthas as a death knight was inferior to uther in all other way expect his speed. Also yeah Arthas won Illidan put he only managed to win with that one lucky strike he managed to do because illidan made a stupid move and went to air.

Arthas didn't even manage finish Kael'thas. From these we can see Arthas was losing against three of his major opponents and won because not his skill or power but because of his speed, cheap dwarven trick and illidan being more stupid, so he is greatest strenght is cunning in his battles and sylvanas is easily more cunning than Arthas DK.

[Tripzzz]

Except in A Good War, which came after in-game scenario and as such is canon under the "newer lore trumps older lore in case of conflict" rule, when Saurfang arrived Sylvanas just launched Malfurion flying into a tree and was in no danger whatsoever.

Also, Malfurion never fought Deathwing one on one. He infiltrated his lair via the Emerald Dream and then ran away like a little bitch. And you accidentally left out the part that Malfurion fought Xavius four times. And while he did win the first three times, in his last bout with Xavius he lost to him and then was held captive by Xavius' mere shade even though he received no noticeable power ups since their penultimate fight.




Who'd pay attention to canon material like the novels, amirite? That's only for "fanboys".

It sounds like someone never bothered to read a good war, who would have guessed.

"A Good War" literally has Slyvanus admitting to Saurfang that Malfurion's defeat would not have been possible without Saurfang's sneak attack.

Saurfang saw antlers. Without thinking, he threw his axe.

“Finish him and be done with it,” Saurfang said quietly.
Sylvanas hefted his axe, considering it. Then she looked back at Saurfang. He could not read
her expression, but he did not like it.
She handed the axe back to him. “I leave it to you, High Overlord.”
“This was your fight.”
She was already walking away. “This is your victory. None of this—not this battle, not Malfurion’s defeat—would have happened without you. You have earned this honor. Take a moment, if you’d like, and then take his head. I will meet you in Darkshore.”

Malfurion >>>>> Slyvanus

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In the novels kael'thas dominated the fight and arthas only managed to get a lucky shot with the trick muradin taught him. Arthas couldn't even get a one shot before that and even tried to provoke Kael'thas to make him sloppy and even that failed. Arthas as a death knight was inferior to uther in all other way expect his speed. Also yeah Arthas won Illidan put he only managed to win with that one lucky strike he managed to do because illidan made a stupid move and went to air.

Arthas didn't even manage finish Kael'thas. From these we can see Arthas was losing against three of his major opponents and won because not his skill or power but because of his speed, cheap dwarven trick and illidan being more stupid, so he is greatest strenght is cunning in his battles and sylvanas is easily more cunning than Arthas DK.

She's so cunning she didn't expect a dreadlord would deceive her or an undead Gilnean would betray and one shot her. Ah yes, she is so cunning, she wanted to drive a wedge between the Alliance but instead drove a wedge between the Horde and she is now losing on all fronts in the War she started. LMAO!

[Amaterasu65]

She didn't really hold much. Saurfang arrived in the nick of time to defend her before Malfurion would land the killing blow. It would be ubsurd to suggest that she would be able to be on par with someone who fought Deathwing one on one and survived, beat Xavius three times,hold the whole Nightmare alone during the Stormrage novel and other crazy feats.

You will be hunted for this statement of truth.

[Verdugo]

You will be hunted for this statement of truth.

Incorrect statement is now considered truth? Last canon source clearly says she was smacking him through trees.

[ohwell]

That would be a fucking mess of lore. Old gods have always been defeated by an army/ large raid. That’s how much of a strong forces they are.

No way a single “BANSHEE” lets make it clear Sylvanas is not some unique undead. Power wise a Lich would wipe the floor with her. Beside how would she stop N’zoth? With the blade he wants her to have in order to corrupt her?

Nzoth is substantially the weakest of the old gods. The only reason we needed an army in the two previous cases was to fight the army defending them. Nzoth's main forces will have been defeated.

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While neither impervious nor unstoppable, the current lore of WoW and even back to WC3 has taken pains to establish that Sylvanas is much more than a simple Banshee. She established this early on by holding her own with Death Knight Arthas accompanied by Frostmourne and nearly killing him - and multiple sources have stated that her abilities have grown with time. Harnessing the Val'kyr as well as growing more and more skillful with her own innate Necromantic abilities has created something well beyond the basic banshee template.

That being said, I don't think she's the equal of N'Zoth - though I'd imagine she'd make a powerful vessel for his essence.

....except lore has already dictated the OGs pretty much can't manipulate the undead which is one of the many reasons Arthas was building an army to sweep over Azeroth.

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"A Good War" literally has Slyvanus admitting to Saurfang that Malfurion's defeat would not have been possible without Saurfang's sneak attack.



Malfurion >>>>> Slyvanus

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She's so cunning she didn't expect a dreadlord would deceive her or an undead Gilnean would betray and one shot her. Ah yes, she is so cunning, she wanted to drive a wedge between the Alliance but instead drove a wedge between the Horde and she is now losing on all fronts in the War she started. LMAO!

A dreadlord that she had pretty much gotten to swear fealty to her and in doing so defeat the other dreadlords. What fronts is she losing a war on? One.

[Eazy]

Except in A Good War, which came after in-game scenario and as such is canon under the "newer lore trumps older lore in case of conflict" rule, when Saurfang arrived Sylvanas just launched Malfurion flying into a tree and was in no danger whatsoever.

Incorrect statement is now considered truth? Last canon source clearly says she was smacking him through trees.

As it was said plenty of times. Just because you throw someone at the tree, doesn't mean you're stronger. In Dragonball people are throwing each other through the mountains/planets/etc. and someone is just still stronger.

If I push Mike Tyson and he falls - does that mean I'm stronger than him? Not really. That argument is just wrong.
I mean I like Sylvanas etc. but that's just over exaggerating saying that she's stronger because she pushed him at the tree...

In the game she had less hp and was under the effect of the entangling roots, she was kneeling and moaning with pain.
In the short novel Sylvanas herself said that she couldn't win without Saurfang.
And that's the most canonic version of the story...

[Amaterasu65]

Incorrect statement is now considered truth? Last canon source clearly says she was smacking him through trees.

This is what I'm talking about. Too much zugzug has side effects.

[Verdugo]

As it was said plenty of times. Just because you throw someone at the tree, doesn't mean you're stronger. In Dragonball people are throwing each other through the mountains/planets/etc. and someone is just still stronger.

If I push Mike Tyson and he falls - does that mean I'm stronger than him? Not really.

In the game she had less hp and was under the effect of the entangling roots, she was kneeling and moaning with pain.
In the short novel Sylvanas herself said that she couldn't win with Malfurion.
And that's the most canonic version of the story...

How doest stating two contradictory sentences paint a clear canon version of the story. Ingame she was kneeling, in the novel she was fighting. Are you trying to find compromise when there is none? Or is it only because it concerns a character you dont like.

This is what I'm talking about. Too much zugzug has side effects.

Zugzug has definitely some side effects on you since you ignore canon sources.