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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinro View Post
    Then they're failing hard at that. There's nobody even playing WoW any more on my friend list. Everyone has quit. At the start of BFA, almost everyone on my friend list was playing WoW daily.
    The completely anecdotal evidence of "your friendslist" is hardly proof of anything. I have more people on my friendslist currently than I had for the entirety of WoD, that doesn't mean anything. Only Blizzard really knows with any amount of certainty how well the game is doing and since they no longer release the data we're left guessing. I'll say that if the mechanisms I mentioned weren't working we wouldn't have seen a majority of them carry over from Legion. Whether that's a bad or a good thing is entirely up individual preference, but I've found those who object to the way the game plays currently are also those who are more likely to have "WoW is dying" types of opinions. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    Do you think it's actually intentional for the game to be more of a pain in the ass than it should be?

    Seriously though. Legion legendaries. Since LAUNCH of 7.0... people wanted a currency. I think I even remember people asking during beta for targeting collection methods. The entire expansion goes by, finally a currency.

    People always liked upgrading their gear. For years, they remove it and we finally get something like that back with 8.2.

    I'm sure everyone can come up with a few other examples.

    My questions are:

    • Does it feel like the WoW devs have to constantly re-learn what players want?
    • Is it intentional to make aggravating things to extend content?
    • Do they think they know better?

    PVP vendors?

    "Players don't know where the vendor is"

    Just do an intro quest to show people where to go or talk to a guard... these methods have been in the game for years.


    I was interested in resubbing for 8.2, but occasionally I think about all of the really dumb things about the game and I'm like nah I'll stick to something else.
    Why would they listen to fair weather fans? Especially ones who think Devs have any input into design decisions? It is obvious to anyone with half a brain why these decisions are made. Max overall profit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  3. #103
    Tbh BFA isn't a very good expansion.

    On top of that, it's super tedious to get flying, so it's just one more reason to not play.

  4. #104
    I am still in utter shock that it took them until Argus to allow people to target legendaries.

    Now I could care less at the time, if you played the game often, you'd get a legendary ever 3 weeks. But man nearly 100% of players wanted that and it took them a year to implement.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    The completely anecdotal evidence of "your friendslist" is hardly proof of anything.
    Then what is? How empty Boralus and Dazar'alor is compared to at launch? How empty the game is? How guilds are dying due to lack of people to recruit?
    Last edited by Freighter; 2019-06-03 at 04:32 AM.

  6. #106
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    They know what players want. Just because you see people on forums complaining about things and demanding things that doesn't mean that's a good representation of the community as a whole.
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  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by MrKnubbles View Post
    Sometimes the things players want are bad for the game or don't fit with the goals Blizzard has for us. You can't really get mad because they didn't do what you want.
    This was something I'd deny a lot in the past but in the back of my head I knew this was true in a lot of cases.

  8. #108
    Because they don't really focus on making a game players want. They focus on making a game that shows they got "big" developer chops. Did you ask for AI islands? No.. but if your the developer that gets it to work its a good resume item! Kudos! Somewhere along the line they got it into their heads that everyone that is involved with this game gets the opportunity to scrap the whole show and redesign it from the group up every expansion or two. Which is why it has become a ridiculous hot mess. Sure sometimes they hit. They do. But when they miss its a fall off the cliff problem that isn't easy to fix because they had just spend 6 months to a year tearing down what was working before.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    Do you think it's actually intentional for the game to be more of a pain in the ass than it should be?

    Seriously though. Legion legendaries. Since LAUNCH of 7.0... people wanted a currency. I think I even remember people asking during beta for targeting collection methods. The entire expansion goes by, finally a currency.

    People always liked upgrading their gear. For years, they remove it and we finally get something like that back with 8.2.

    I'm sure everyone can come up with a few other examples.

    My questions are:

    • Does it feel like the WoW devs have to constantly re-learn what players want?
    • Is it intentional to make aggravating things to extend content?
    • Do they think they know better?

    PVP vendors?

    "Players don't know where the vendor is"

    Just do an intro quest to show people where to go or talk to a guard... these methods have been in the game for years.


    I was interested in resubbing for 8.2, but occasionally I think about all of the really dumb things about the game and I'm like nah I'll stick to something else.
    Honestly people were bitching about gear upgrades when they put in the 2/2 and 4/4 upgrade system. "Now we have to farm every week and when a new tier opens it's going to take us 2 months to upgrade all my gear."

    So Blizzard stopped it.

    Then came Apexis crystals in Warlords. That was an absolute flop. People hated it.

    Then Legion they took that crap away. Instead they added the power grind back to the weapon. But people complained again because it took too much time.

    SO now we're in BFA. The grind is easier. Catchup easier. Gearing is easier than it's ever been. But now people want the currency back? It's like going full circle.

    Btw, if Blizzard says they are adding something to the game then it's been in the pipeline for 6+ months. They can't just up and rehash a design in a month because all the current things would be shelved. No game would do that. It has to make it into the product cycle.

    One last thing. You want currency? How many others? I don't care about it. It's a vocal minority just like everything in the game. 10% hate a feature, 90% love it. This forum at it's peak was less than 1% of the playerbase. Most come here to complain and nothing else.
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  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinro View Post
    Just as a reminder here; We don't pay for expansions in South Korea, only game time.
    I was basing the comment on their own numbers about expansion sales. It's a big number when you multiply it against the price of the expansion. I'm going to assume that if you don't buy expansions in whatever part of the world you're in that that's not a part of what they report as expansion sales.
    "...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."

  11. #111
    Imagine you're building a skyscraper and around the 40th floor you suddenly realise the 30th floor should have a totally different layout.


    They do make mistakes and they do really need to think better and harder about what they are doing, but if they quickly try to make a change when they are already several builds ahead it needs to be implemented through those other iterations to make sure it's compatible and shit.

    It's easier to add something at the current end than it is earlier in the patch cycle. It's more complicated than a word file where you can just insert a line in the middle with no issue.

  12. #112
    I really really hope that Classic is a great success, so it shows AAA developers that game design has deteriorated over the last 10 years. If classic is a success (which I think it will be), I fully expect retail wow to implement more oldschool RPG elements and less modern instant-gratification elements that we have been accustomed to.

    After all, Activision-Blizzard will react to the market.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinro View Post
    Then what is? How empty Boralus and Dazar'alor is compared to at launch? How empty the game is? How guilds are dying due to lack of people to recruit?
    Again, all anecdotal. Add to that the fact that your experience may vary differently from those of us on US/EU servers.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by MrKnubbles View Post
    That's your opinion. There may be features you want to be implemented that other players don't. What about what they want?
    Majority rules, sorry. More people leave the game because of these bad decisions. /shrug that's just a fact, hence why Classic is a thing now.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by ShimmerSwirl View Post
    -Blizzard needs to create easy content because current players cannot tolerate challenge
    -The problem with easy content is it does not last very long
    -Blizzard timegates or grindgates basic game features in order to make the content last longer

    That is WoW's current design philosophy in a nutshell, and also why WoW currently sucks.
    WoW has always been like this. The only challenge content were in raids and dungeons, which are still present. WoW now has an easier versions for players that are not capable of raiding the highest difficulty. This is a good thing. WoW is not the game or hobby activity that has an easier version for the varying skills that exist in its player base.

    I play sports. Should I stop because I cannot compete at the highest level.

    If you have a solution, I like to hear it.

    Complaining is easy. Finding a solution is the challenge.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Sansnom View Post
    WoW has always been like this. The only challenge content were in raids and dungeons, which are still present. WoW now has an easier versions for players that are not capable of raiding the highest difficulty. This is a good thing. WoW is not the game or hobby activity that has an easier version for the varying skills that exist in its player base.

    I play sports. Should I stop because I cannot compete at the highest level.

    If you have a solution, I like to hear it.

    Complaining is easy. Finding a solution is the challenge.
    Challenging game play throughout. Questing, dungeons, raiding. Teach players skills through leveling like they used to, and apply those skills in endgame. Make the game focused on raiding, with one raid mode. Yes I realize most current players will quit, thats fine. The current playerbase is impossible to please and they should not be playing an MMORPG anyway, its not the right genre for them. Bring back complexity to class design, and remove complexity from all the bloated grindy gated game systems.

    In short, go back to Classic design. Classic is going to blow BFA out of the water with player numbers. Hopefully Blizzard keeps BFA as it is so the players who like that can continue to play that style of game rather than come over and ruin Classic like they already did once.

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  17. #117
    Herald of the Titans MrKnubbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlae View Post
    Majority rules, sorry. More people leave the game because of these bad decisions. /shrug that's just a fact, hence why Classic is a thing now.
    It's not a thing yet and not a success yet. I don't think it will be very successful in the long run. Players will get bored when there's no new content.
    Check out my game, Craftsmith, on the Google Play Store!

  18. #118
    I read the OP, thought about the implementation of Island Expeditions for about 1 second, and hurt my neck nodding.

    There are 100% some areas of the game where the only explanation is, Blizz is fucking with us, on purpose. I assume to test the max limits of our patience with RNG features. Take Islands.... they added a grind feature (few tidbits on the Dubloon vendor) without actually affecting the hideous multilayered RNG feature that is the core problem.

    And people literally said, 'you got what you wanted, this is now Fixed.' Which it absolutely isn't. They are masters of misdirection and half-solutions.

    There's 3 explanations (well 4 really):
    1) There's some sneaky reason such as MAU counts or something they have to push
    2) They're inept, and they actually think this (for example) IS a solution
    3) They're woefully understaffed and they Just Cant Get Around To This Problem
    4) They're prideful and unwilling to accept that a fucked up thing is in fact fucked up (I do not subscribe to this explanation. See: Azerite. they know its is/was totally fucked and are materially changing it (the fact its still worse than what we had last expack is absolutely open for debate)).

    Personally I think its a mixer of 1 and 2 with a splash of 3.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post

    I was interested in resubbing for 8.2, but occasionally I think about all of the really dumb things about the game and I'm like nah I'll stick to something else.
    and yet instead of just doing that, you felt some obsessive need to come and whine on the forums about something you say you dont bother with anymore...

    BTW are you aware of the split in the game on people who do and dont want housing?
    Never believe you have seen the peak of human stupidity and ignorance, or you will constantly be surprised by the new levels the reach almost every day

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinro View Post
    Then what is? How empty Boralus and Dazar'alor is compared to at launch? How empty the game is? How guilds are dying due to lack of people to recruit?
    Average participation numbers over a sufficiently large time frame. Something you aren't really equipped to track if you keep coming up with such narrow frames.

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