Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Aldo Hawk]

Well said. For someone to call your opinion "bait" says quite a bit about their ability to rationalize the truth. I'm not sure how much simpler it could be said.

Besides, I think you'd have to be downright crazy to think there's going to be another Elven race coming. I mean, c'mon.

Do you have something to add except saying i am unable to rationalize truth or being downright crazy?

Of course not

[Black Goat]

You also fail to acknowledge the many times High elves were presented through lore and game as Alliance members. Even trying to find a way to imply they are not even Alliance... When someone deny reality in front of his nose there's something that is very wrong.

I mean, you're denying the reality that IS real. I guess that means something is very wrong with you? Blood Elves are, in fact, High Elves. 99% of them aren't Alliance anymore, he's not wrong. They abandoned the Alliance faction and renamed themselves. It's really not more complicated than that, even if 1% of them remained Alliance. Since you brought up lore and what not. The lore is the reality you're denying.

You're the pot calling the kettle black.

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Do you have something to add except saying i am unable to rationalize truth or being downright crazy?

Of course not

I wasn't talking to you. Why are you so arrogant about this topic?

Besides, you clearly aren't able to rationalize the truth as evidenced by both your need for arrogance about a fictional race in the nerdiest video game of all time and your replies to people. You seem very, very salty.

[Gramlen]

And also taking into account that the developer commentary you have presented came as decontextualized or flawed one cannot take it seriously.

Just because a developer didn't say what you wanted him to say, doesn't mean he didn't say it at all.

[Aldo Hawk]

High Elves are Blood Elves.

Flipping it is even wronger...

What is your motivation? You are not even stating something that can be pointed as anything but clueless.

[Gramlen]

What is your motivation?

Logical contradiction to fantastical whimsy.

[Aldo Hawk]

Just because a developer didn't say what you wanted him to say, doesn't mean he didn't say it at all.

This is a flat out lie.

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Logical contradiction to fantastical whimsy.

What are you doing? I was not even talking nor referring to you...

[Gramlen]

This is a flat out lie.

Only if you are a narcissist who believes your opinion is the end of any and all opinion put forward by others. I could never look at categorical evidence to the contrary of what I believe to be true, and say to myself 'well that's not what I think, so clearly it's wrong'.


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What are you doing? I was not even talking nor referring to you...

Responding to a 560+ page thread concerning whimsical wanting of the fourth playable elf race in World of Warcraft and the refusal to acknowledge evidence to the contrary of their use in the game in that context by game developers.

Is that a problem?

[Aldo Hawk]

Why do someone feel the need to pop up on a thread to create even more animosity?

Hahahaha

[Frenchvince]

the anti, several pages back the defense argument was that "the identity of the factions" should not be scrambled. And a few pages later, the high elves should also have golden eyes, where is the logic? They do not have the same lifestyle as the blood elves ...

Blue eyes or silver / bluish hair colors are precisely the identity of the high elves of the alliance, they are NPCs and it is these elves that we want as a playable race.

So the horde will never have the blue-eyed option for blood elves, Blizzard will not break the identity of the factions, it's their words, the added races will have their own identities that will distinguish them from other races or the faction.

[Hallowseve17]

I will never understand why people who are against High Elves would be fine with Half-Elves. Half-breeds are rare in the WoW universe. The source is here in this interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osB0_0G5N8g. And yeah, I get it, there aren't many High Elves left, but Half-Elves... the only four that are canon are Alodi, Arator, Giramar, and Galadin. There is no proof that more Half-Elves exist and it has never been suggested that more exist. And while I may have been swayed recently, what I've said is from a neutral point-of-view.

[Lumineus]

I will never understand why people who are against High Elves would be fine with Half-Elves.

Because it's not about the lore to them, it's about the perceived quality of the pixels. They think Blizz will give us pin-headed humans with Spock ears and hair colors from Magic Knight RayEarth because of Kalecgos, so they can point and laugh while they once again get exactly what they want served up without one-sided "compromise."

[Aldo Hawk]

I will never understand why people who are against High Elves would be fine with Half-Elves. Half-breeds are rare in the WoW universe. The source is here in this interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osB0_0G5N8g. And yeah, I get it, there aren't many High Elves left, but Half-Elves... the only four that are canon are Alodi, Arator, Giramar, and Galadin. There is no proof that more Half-Elves exist and it has never been suggested that more exist. And while I may have been swayed recently, what I've said is from a neutral point-of-view.

That's because they only care about the lore when it fits them.

The last example in this same thread was about Half elves.

If there are not enough High elves to become playable as these people cluelessly tend to say then why is Half elves acceptable?

Oh right, there is when jealousy and selfishness enters. They don't -accept- the existence of High elves and people asking to play as them because they feel Blood elves would be less special.

It's sad but that's how it goes. High elves are Alliance and they are a legitimate request as lore and gameplay shows. We also had a dev who liked the idea https://twitter.com/candacerthomas/s...547962880?s=19 and there are more but i don't have any links nor i want to bother searching (basically i had the prior link on my screen while writing this xd).

It's just how it goes. They don't care about anything else than themselves, 'lore and devs and faction wall here and faction identity there' are just twisted excuses. This request is -based- on the lore of this game.

Alliance High elves are not an invent of any kind.

[FlubberPuddy]

I will never understand why people who are against High Elves would be fine with Half-Elves. Half-breeds are rare in the WoW universe. The source is here in this interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osB0_0G5N8g. And yeah, I get it, there aren't many High Elves left, but Half-Elves... the only four that are canon are Alodi, Arator, Giramar, and Galadin. There is no proof that more Half-Elves exist and it has never been suggested that more exist. And while I may have been swayed recently, what I've said is from a neutral point-of-view.

Imo it’s because some of these players see the Blood Elves as literal High Elves. What I mean by that is, to some players the Blood Elves would be as if they considered the Green Orcs to be Mag’har Orcs, and if playable Mag’har come then they cannot continue to say “these Orcs are the Mag’har Orcs, they just ended up taking in Fel”.

What they seem to want is for Blood Elves to be the only type of “high elf” in the game and for the Blood Elves to encompass any and all parts of its society, when it’s clear that Night Elves aren’t the only type of “night elf” and don’t get to encompass all of Night Elf society due to the existence of Nightborne.

As I’ve just described, it’s very clear that Blizzard isn’t showing this to be the case either since they gave us two kinds of night elves cut from the same cloth, and also two kinds of high elf cut from the same cloth - a Blood Elf and a Void Elf. Although Void Elves are completely new, Ion has gone as far to call them both “a different flavor of high elf” and also “something like a blood elf”.

Some of these players don’t seem to understand, or just do not want players to be able to play the “high elf” society that continues to call themselves High Elves and exist on Alliance because they feel it would take away from Blood Elves.

Not realizing strangely enough, that Void Elves already do this, but it appears to be okay simply because they are purple/blue. To me then it’s always felt like they don’t want Alliance receiving a fair skinned elf because they know whatever iteration of fair skin elf Blizzard releases “will be better” than what Blood Elves currently are just by sheer nature of being a recent addition to the game with all the improvements Blizzard continues to make in the art department.

They want all these customizations and “improvements” to go to Blood Elves because they for some reason feel owed to it, even though as I stated already, the Night Elves don’t get to lay claim to every single customization and aspect of their society in a playable form.

[Obelisk Kai]

You still fail to acknowledge that High elves are not playable. That denotes a great amount of cynical behavior from your part. Sorry, repeating that will not make it true.

You seem to think the idea that High Elves are not playable is so self evident that to deny it is somehow being rude.

High Elves not being playable is your opinion. Just as the Earth not being round is also an opinion.

I 'fail to acknowledge' your opinion because your opinion is factually wrong.

Also your mention of 'faction diversity' has been demonstrably flawed since all you have held onto for that is vague dev commentary and a haggard conspiration about neutral races not being released since MoP.

I have

1.) That developer comment from Ghostcrawler.

2.) The clarification a post Blizzard Ghostcrawler offered on that comment in regards to High Elves.

3.) Yes, the fact they haven't introduced any neutral races since MOP IS a sign.

4.) The existence of the Allied race system, which gives many of the positives a neutral race also offered (in terms of reduced development costs) while almost none of the drawbacks (a reduction in faction diversity)

5.) Ion Hazzikostas stating faction diversity was the reason Alliance High Elves were rejected and Void Elves created.

So what I have are five discrete pieces of evidence across a five years period involving either developer commentary (or in the case of point 2, ex-developer commentary on a comment he made while a developer) or developer action.

In contrast against that you again, have nothing to offer. This is a perfect example of the pro High Elf modus operandi, without evidence of your own, attempt to attack or denigrate the mountain of evidence against you.

You also fail to acknowledge the many times High elves were presented through lore and game as Alliance members. Even trying to find a way to imply they are not even Alliance... When someone deny reality in front of his nose there's something that is very wrong.

Individual high elves are members of the Alliance. The Silver Covenant, the sole organisation of any size, is based in Dalaran which is a neutral state. The Silver Covenant is not a member of the Alliance, but it is Alliance aligned.

And also taking into account that the developer commentary you have presented came as decontextualized or flawed one cannot take it seriously.

It takes a mighty leap of logic to somehow arrive at the conclusion that Ion Hazzikostas comments 'Blood Elves are High Elves'...'Void Elves are another flavour of High Elf /Void Elves are something like a Blood Elf' and 'the Horde is waiting for you' can somehow be 'decontextualized'.

It's pretty obvious what is happening here. You simply don't like what you are hearing and are simply in denial that what was said, was said and that they meant what they said.

Bait is placing dishonest and not-leading-to-anywhere comments to try to trigger another cyclical discussion about unimportant small pieces.

Oh we discuss an awful lot of nonsense in this thread, that is true. Most of it is useless noise. As I said above, only the following really matters.

Blood Elves are High Elves.
High Elves are playable.
Faction diversity is a key part of the game.
Void Elves are a variant created for the Alliance.

All very simple and all very elegant. Sure, I am willing to go and argue any other point, but that's pretty much the fundamentals.

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the anti, several pages back the defense argument was that "the identity of the factions" should not be scrambled. And a few pages later, the high elves should also have golden eyes, where is the logic? They do not have the same lifestyle as the blood elves ...

Blue eyes or silver / bluish hair colors are precisely the identity of the high elves of the alliance, they are NPCs and it is these elves that we want as a playable race.

So the horde will never have the blue-eyed option for blood elves, Blizzard will not break the identity of the factions, it's their words, the added races will have their own identities that will distinguish them from other races or the faction.

That was me and this easy to rebut. In order to form part of the identity of a faction, a particular race must be playable within that faction. Those high elves within the Alliance are not playable and whatever you consider the defining physical characteristics of that group are therefore not protected. High Elves however ARE playable as Blood Elves. As Blood Elves and high elves are identical biologically, then what is available to one should under most circumstances be available to the other with the exception of 'green eyes' for Alliance high elves, which in lore was a consequence of the fel taint which Alliance high elves avoided.

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I will never understand why people who are against High Elves would be fine with Half-Elves. Half-breeds are rare in the WoW universe. The source is here in this interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osB0_0G5N8g. And yeah, I get it, there aren't many High Elves left, but Half-Elves... the only four that are canon are Alodi, Arator, Giramar, and Galadin. There is no proof that more Half-Elves exist and it has never been suggested that more exist. And while I may have been swayed recently, what I've said is from a neutral point-of-view.

Because as long as it isn't a duplicate of a Blood Elf, which is all an Alliance High Elf can be, or any other Horde race I don't believe we particularly care what the Alliance gets. Half Elves are a distinct race from Blood/High Elves, therefore adding them to the Alliance would not undermine Blood Elf racial integrity or the faction identity of the Horde.

The lore considerations are another matter, as is their population, but I don't particularly care to debate their foibles.

[HeiAggra]

Because as long as it isn't a duplicate of a Blood Elf, which is all an Alliance High Elf can be, or any other Horde race I don't believe we particularly care what the Alliance gets. Half Elves are a distinct race from Blood/High Elves, therefore adding them to the Alliance would not undermine Blood Elf racial integrity or the faction identity of the Horde.

100% This!!!
Alliance players can have all the half elves they want.
Elves with wuargens with gnomes with dwarfs i don't care but a copy paste from Belfs with blue eyes no they are a horde race.

[Obelisk Kai]

Imo it’s because some of these players see the Blood Elves as literal High Elves. What I mean by that is, to some players the Blood Elves would be as if they considered the Green Orcs to be Mag’har Orcs, and if playable Mag’har come then they cannot continue to say “these Orcs are the Mag’har Orcs, they just ended up taking in Fel”.

What they seem to want is for Blood Elves to be the only type of “high elf” in the game and for the Blood Elves to encompass any and all parts of its society, when it’s clear that Night Elves aren’t the only type of “night elf” and don’t get to encompass all of Night Elf society due to the existence of Nightborne.

As I’ve just described, it’s very clear that Blizzard isn’t showing this to be the case either since they gave us two kinds of night elves cut from the same cloth, and also two kinds of high elf cut from the same cloth - a Blood Elf and a Void Elf. Although Void Elves are completely new, Ion has gone as far to call them both “a different flavor of high elf” and also “something like a blood elf”.

Some of these players don’t seem to understand, or just do not want players to be able to play the “high elf” society that continues to call themselves High Elves and exist on Alliance because they feel it would take away from Blood Elves.

Not realizing strangely enough, that Void Elves already do this, but it appears to be okay simply because they are purple/blue. To me then it’s always felt like they don’t want Alliance receiving a fair skinned elf because they know whatever iteration of fair skin elf Blizzard releases “will be better” than what Blood Elves currently are just by sheer nature of being a recent addition to the game with all the improvements Blizzard continues to make in the art department.

They want all these customizations and “improvements” to go to Blood Elves because they for some reason feel owed to it, even though as I stated already, the Night Elves don’t get to lay claim to every single customization and aspect of their society in a playable form.

Blood Elves are literally High Elves. And they didn't take in the fel as the Orcs did, the fel taint was due to Fel radiance. Blood Elves drained arcane, not fel. The fel taint is also being purged by the Sunwell as we speak, with many Blood Elves losing their green eyes in favour of golden. And the Alliance high elves are subject to that exact same sunwell, so any physical changes that the sunwell will provoke among the Blood Elves will also occur among the Alliance high elves as they are the same race.

The comparison with the Orcs is flawed. Orcs took in the fel, this physically transformed them by granting them fully green skin and red eyes. Years spent under the thrall of the Legion broke down their society, with clan differences becoming almost vestigial among modern Orcs.
In contrast, playable Mag'har refused the fel. Clan differences remain a highly visible component of their society and playable Mag'har come from a separate timeline. These are all critical points of differences between the two groups.

Nightborne were separated from Night Elves over ten thousand years ago. While Night Elves tore down their civilization and built a new society built around an arboreal existence and Druidism, the Nightborne maintained the ancient civilization of the highborne, one based around city living and arcane magic. The Nightwell that sustained them provoked physical changes in terms of skin tone, musculature and ear shape.

Void Elves are former Blood Elves (and former high elves) who have undergone a process to alter their forms to accommodate the powers of the void. This has provoked a shift in skin tone and optional hair tentacles. Everyone among the Void Elves hears the whispers, the voices, adding a struggle to their daily existence that no untransformed thalassian has to face.

These are the three examples you mentioned. In all three examples, something profound happened, and in all three cases it was continuous exposure to a different kind of magical energy, arcane for the Nightborne over millenia, shadow for the Void Elves and in the case of the Mag'har, non-exposure to the fel.
In all three examples there are differences in society between them and what is perceived as the parent race.

Attempting to use these races in regards to Blood Elves and Alliance High Elves fails because no such differentiating event happened between Blood Elves and Alliance High Elves. They were divided, not because of a transformative event, but because of a point of philosophy. A point of philosophy that has now been resolved. All that separates the Blood Elves and the Alliance High Elves now is political opinion and as stated that is not enough.

Using Void Elves is a particularly egregious example as the reason Void Elves exist was to give the Alliance a thalassian variant, and the reason Void Elves needed to be invented is because Alliance High Elves, who were certainly considered as an Allied race, are identical to an existing Horde race. Saying Alliance High Elves can be a different type of High Elf is like presenting two oranges as two different kinds of fruit. Void Elves are a different kind of high elf. And because they are, they were allowed to join the Alliance.

[Aldo Hawk]

You seem to think the idea that High Elves are not playable is so self evident that to deny it is somehow being rude.

High Elves not being playable is your opinion. Just as the Earth not being round is also an opinion.

I 'fail to acknowledge' your opinion because your opinion is factually wrong.

Projection much?

You know that's true and that saying they are playable is false.

Also comparing this with flat earthers just further demonstrate your lack of comprehension about the matter.

High elves not being playable is not an opinion, is a fact.

I have

Let's see...

1.) That developer comment from Ghostcrawler.

One comment, from ONLY ONE developer, with a vague explanation, without anyone expanding on it.

You are free to still thinking it is important, love.

2.) The clarification a post Blizzard Ghostcrawler offered on that comment in regards to High Elves.

His sole opinion on the matter, and again, another vague one since it was a rethoric question based on his opinion on the matter.

3.) Yes, the fact they haven't introduced any neutral races since MOP IS a sign.

A 'sign' of something that you conveniently want to see.

Something 'not happening since' being an indicative has been demonstrably naive SO MANY TIMES THROUGH HISTORY that i feel shame to see someone repeating that idea for almost anything.

4.) The existence of the Allied race system, which gives many of the positives a neutral race also offered (in terms of reduced development costs) while almost none of the drawbacks (a reduction in faction diversity)

This is a filler point since it doesn't have anything to do with releasing or not a new neutral race.

It's just another thing you want to see what you want on it.

You are not a goddamn wow developer nor a fantastical guru. You don't know what is going on in their offices.

Remember your commentary regarding Nightborne and: 'They are not gonna release another elf race?'

Learn for a goddamn time.

5.) Ion Hazzikostas stating faction diversity was the reason Alliance High Elves were rejected and Void Elves created.

If you are so certain of this what the hell are you still doing in this thread? Seems like not huh?

So what I have are five discrete pieces of evidence across a five years period involving either developer commentary (or in the case of point 2, ex-developer commentary on a comment he made while a developer) or developer action.

So 'discrete' it is not even believable, wow such discretion very subtle!

In contrast against that you again, have nothing to offer. This is a perfect example of the pro High Elf modus operandi, without evidence of your own, attempt to attack or denigrate the mountain of evidence against you.

You cannot still say this with a straight face.

Individual high elves are members of the Alliance. The Silver Covenant, the sole organisation of any size, is based in Dalaran which is a neutral state. The Silver Covenant is not a member of the Alliance, but it is Alliance aligned.

Going in circles again and again...

It takes a mighty leap of logic to somehow arrive at the conclusion that Ion Hazzikostas comments 'Blood Elves are High Elves'...'Void Elves are another flavour of High Elf /Void Elves are something like a Blood Elf' and 'the Horde is waiting for you' can somehow be 'decontextualized'.

Do you forget your 'Blood elves are the High elves of warcraft' and then finding the 2007 TbC panel where Chris Metzen says something that doesn't have anything to do with that idea but you even still twisting it ignoring the context to create a false message?

It takes a big leap of faith to indulge yourself into things just because a developer said whatever. Void elves are the farthest thing from what a High elf is.

Unlike Ion, we perfectly know what a High elf is, and Blood elves are High elves only in the former name of their race, they are not the High elves that have been discussed all this time. Still going in circles around this idea just because a developer said something is completely stupid.

It's pretty obvious what is happening here. You simply don't like what you are hearing and are simply in denial that what was said, was said and that they meant what they said.

What is happening here is that you are just taking a faithful appeal to authority that has enough holes to not be taken as the ultimatums you want them to be.

I'm so sorry.

Oh we discuss an awful lot of nonsense in this thread, that is true. Most of it is useless noise. As I said above, only the following really matters.

A bit of self awareness should be very useful for you.

You have brought red herrings and extra goalposts out of no damn where just to derail the discussion.

Those following points have been pointed out as tattered, they cannot be what you want them to be, i'm very sorry.

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100% This!!!
Alliance players can have all the half elves they want.
Elves with wuargens with gnomes with dwarfs i don't care but a copy paste from Belfs with blue eyes no they are a horde race.

Except Helfs are not a Horde race?

Except Half elves can be counted with the fingers of a hand that lacks one finger?

Except lore and game support this?

I'm very sorry but we are gonna still ask for it since there is greater things than your selfishness and ego.

[HeiAggra]

Except Helfs are not a Horde race?
Except Half elves can be counted with the fingers of a hand that lacks one finger?
Except lore and game support this?
I'm very sorry but we are gonna still ask for it since there is greater things than your selfishness and ego.

No your points have 0 to refuse the facts ppl present to you.
You should leave this thread since you only give YOUR PERSONAL OPINION.
Witch matters a big round ZERO!
Belf's are Helve's!
It's stated by Blizz personal, it's on their page get over it.

PS: Nothing is greater then my EGO! Haahaha

[Didly]

Can we not add any more Elves into the game? We already have multiple versions on both factions, enough is enough.

You guys can jerk off to something else or make do with existing elf models. Thanks.

[Aldo Hawk]

No your points have 0 to refuse the facts ppl present to you.
You should leave this thread since you only give YOUR PERSONAL OPINION.
Witch matters a big round ZERO!
Belf's are Helve's!
It's stated by Blizz personal, it's on their page get over it.

PS: Nothing is greater then my EGO! Haahaha

I knew you didn't had anything thoughtful to add but you didn't had to come out and scream it out loud.