Blizz if you're reading, please don't do a new class. In-fact, remove some specs.

[szandos]

More focus on fewer specs would be a good thing.

Yes!

I'd go so far as to have just one "damage dealer" spec per class (and only one "healer" spec for priests). Put in more talent rows to allow for some customization. For healer priests for example you could have a talent row or two that lets you focus on either sheilding or direct healing.

Blizzard did a bold move when they scrapped the old talent trees. It's time to refresh wow and make another bold move and scrap a lot of the specs.

[Gourami]

new classes is the only thing that still makes me come back

[arkanon]

People still losing their minds about the keyring being removed - entire specs might be a bad idea. I am all for CHANGES to the specs and how we view them, but entirely removing would be GG imo, unless replaced with something else.

[cuafpr]

its only a balancing nightmare cause players care if another spec/class does 3% hell even .01% more dps than their class does. IMO a 5% difference should be acceptable between top and lowest dps played by the average WoW player.

maybe they could just remove the ability for players to track DPS >.> (sorta joking)

[valky94]

its only a balancing nightmare cause players care if another spec/class does 3% hell even .01% more dps than their class does. IMO a 5% difference should be acceptable between top and lowest dps played by the average WoW player.

maybe they could just remove the ability for players to track DPS >.> (sorta joking)

imo all specs should be in 5% of each other when it comes to pure single target fights, but im fine if one spec/class performs better on certain fights, there will always be one spec that better that another for AoE/cleave/multidoting etc. and im fine with that

this obviously counts only for pure dps classes that have multiple specs, take mage as an example, arcane should be ST kings, fire for aoe, frost for cleave etc. rogues sin for multidot, outlaw for aoe/cleave, sub for ST and so on

when it comes to classes that have only 1 dps spec, like monks or paladins, they should be in the middle of the pack, jack of all trades master of none, decent in all but not the best in anything, but instead blizzard should give them some raid utility to compensate, after all they are a hybrid class

[Geckoo]

Well, i agree with not adding a new class.
But i disagree with the removal of specs. In fact, i would add a 4th spec for every class (except druids obviously).

But instead of adding a new spec as we know them, i would rather have a new talent and spec system that does in fact merge some current specs while it keeps the gameplay presented in a different way.

I have a few ideas about how it could be done, but is a waste of time since we are not the ones designing the game, so i'll just say that WoD's gladiator stance talent is quite an interesting concept. in a developed and really integrated way it could allow to merge some of the current specs, add some new ways to play within the same theme including new roles or add new themes with gameplay similar to existing specs.

It has the potential to add something like a ranged necromancer kind of spec for DK that uses some of the unholy assets, to merge assassination and subtley in to one single spec with an interesting talent choice between poisons and shadows or to make enhancement shaman change a little bit to become an earthwarden able to tank in most content.

So is not about having 4 specs as much as it is about having new ways to play with my current class or even new roles to use, but without the necessity to add a 100% new theme, gameplay, spells... etc. Basically, no need to design a bunch of new specs as if they were for a new class, just a clever use of existing assets, spells, themes; play around with them, tweak them, add a few things to them if you need to, explore the existing class fantasy in new ways and voilà! your filthy pirate rogue can now perform as a tank, shockadin is back and is a ranged DPS/support paladin!, a mage using time magic to heal others? warrior with a shield dealing tons of damage? check.

But for this to work, as i said, specs as we know them, specializations as a concept, need to change in some way, maybe even disappear.

[Costa]

Don't agree here at all, i agree that is a lot for devs to keep all these specs fun, enjoyable and balanced but to remove some and then add abilities into other specs just causes a huge issue for the people who like those specs. Removing Disc priest would hurt a lot of people as they love disc priests, people still prefer arms warrior over fury but right now fury is better so they play it etc etc. You can't just remove specs what i would prefer is they full 360 and revert to old classic style trees so you can have all specs but just talent into one or the other. Balance off of that instead so of course you will have your optimum dps builds you always will with simming and what not the game evolved into but it is still the way to do what you want as OP and not kill a lot of peoples ideas of WoW.

Balance is never going to be perfect and imo should never be, as long as WoW "balance" around buffing and nerfing during the major patches of said expansion it should be fine. For example the next expansion launches and Warlocks and mage is the best, with Hunter and Rogue being towards the bottom, in the 1st major patch they should flip it and have Hunter and Rogue being the best with Warlocks and Mage falling to mid table etc, that is all they have to do to keep people happy on that side.

For me balance isn't the issue it is gameplay issues with classes i play, this expansion ill admit i have only played my mage but they have killed it so much and its so boring and only one spec viable (realistically) that it is crazily boring. Their balance designs within the 3 specs are beyond questionable as well. The 3 traits of Fire they deemed "too strong" where Blaster Master so they nerfed the fuck out of it....however the 3 traits for Frost which were way more broken than Blaster Master ever was in Flash Freeze DID NOT GET TOUCHED at all, so it just completely nuked mages into only being able to play Flash Freeze frost mage, great thanks. etc etc

TLDR - Balance is hard, a good way would be to instsead of deleting specs justs revamp the talent trees to make all specs open and you talent into the one you want to play! Thus having a hybrid PoM Pyro mage spec for example.

[Alopex Major]

But they already removed Survival Hunter, Combat Rogue, and Meta Lock

Plus, I still would love a melee caster like a battlemage/mage tank that isn't a shaman. I like how the class plays but the aesthetics and the whole Thrall thing are a big turnoff for me.

I think for a company with as much talent and staff as Blizzard, and over a decade of experience, they should really be better at class development.

[Adoxe]

They've already said numerous times that if they could go back and not do certain specs in the first place they would but they will never remove them at this point. A new class is definitely happening aswell, the hints and clues for it are in place.

[Th3Scourge]

Just remove specs and go back to having 3 talent trees and let the player decide what 'spec' they are. Set bonuses don't exist anymore so no reason why this can't be achieved. I took a break from WotLK to WoD so it was really jarring to come back to a determined 'spec' that I had to select from.

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I REALLY like this idea.

This is what we used to have, just split over three trees.

[Sanguinerd]

Hey Blizz if you're reading.. ignore everyone else and just stop balancing the game around mythic raiding and 3 vs 3 arena, thnx!

[Kaver]

Hey Blizz if you're reading.. ignore everyone else and just stop balancing the game around mythic raiding and 3 vs 3 arena, thnx!

Mythic raiders are complaining the least about balancing because we just pick the best specs for each tier. The ones crying about class balance are the players that "main" one specific spec and goes crazy when that one single spec is not on top of the charts. Play the class not the spec.

[FelPlague]

It's pretty crystal clear at this point that one of the key problems with current class design...is that there is too much of it to be done for the devs.

Yet again we have several dead specs, several more that have poor mechanics, all dps basically has the same tools, etc etc.

On top of not adding anything, I think certain specs are really good candidates for removal. Sub rogues, arcane mages, demo locks, feral druids, arms wars, surv hunter, frost DK, Disc priest (as much as I love the concept of disc).

The idea being that you remove these specs, roll some of abilities/thematics into other specs, and have a healthier game.

For example, with arcane, you can easily give other specs some arcane spells. They are still a mage, all mages having access to arcane spells makes sense. Same with demo lock. Arms wars are just plain redundant with fury, its a pointless spec. All rogues can have subtlety elements. Etc etc etc.

<derailing-thread comment removed>

no new cass sure i agree, remove specs? nah fuck that you serious?

"remove demo locks" so remove the only thign that made warlocks unique, the possibility to summon demons... remove arcane mages? the thing that makes mages unique... arcane magic... frost dk? really? yeah lets remove northrend from the entire death knight astetic, that sounds great.


nah this is just troll levels mate.

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Mythic raiders are complaining the least about balancing because we just pick the best specs for each tier. The ones crying about class balance are the players that "main" one specific spec and goes crazy when that one single spec is not on top of the charts. Play the class not the spec.

yeah pretty much this, even if all the classes are only within 1% of eachother, best of the best mythic raiders will still just use the best spec.

hell its called the snowball effect, classes may be 1% within eachother, but because the best of the best players all move to the best spec, suddenly the logs and warcraft progress etc point to that one spec, and suddenly that spec is 10% above the other.

[groovyt]

new classes is the only thing that still makes me come back

I fully agree with this guy!

[pacotaco]

I'd argue that we shouldn't remove specs, they should be re-designed instead.

I agree. The problem is that some questionable decisions from vanilla relating to class design are showing off now. For example:
- Arms and prot are ok as warrior spec, but fury doenst truly fit and it was just included to represent the orcish/horde front-liners.
- Hunter is a weird conglomerate of animal tamer, scout, ranger and trapper.
- Druid has 4 specs now because they had to split feral in 2 to fix the design problems of having tank and dps options in the same spec.

What I think they could do is rework Fury Warrior into a, e.g., Gladiator spec, shield + 1h dps with focus on debuffing the enemy (root with chains/nets, disarm, slow). At the same time rework Survival Hunter into a proper trapper like it was originaly. And then move Fury and Survival into a Barbarian class.

I don't see Arcane Mages lacking. They are mechanically different from any other spec.
I haven't played Destruction Warlock in a while, dunno if it's still the case, but last time they felt too close to Fire Mages. Maybe they could work the Arcane mechanics into Fire, and change Arcane to a Spellblade spec?

Rogues seem fine to me. You have pretty much the 3 main archetypes: the duelist (Outlaw), you have the assassin (Assassination), and you have the ninja (Subtlety).

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Tbh this isnt a bad idea, I feel they should rip all specs away give us a list of actives and passives to choose give us so many slots and let us spend skill points on thos abilities even have some of them evolve at later levels to harder hitting abilities and such let people build their classes how they see fit simular to hmmm ESO that system isnt bad.

That seems waaaaaay more difficutl to balance that the current model. They'd have to take on account every possible combo, or drastically reduce the option pool. Or end with 3 kinds of player population: the min-maxers with cookie-cutter builds, the ones that copy the min-maxers builds, and the ones that cripple themselves not copying those. Basically what you had with Vanilla, but much worse.

[cordrann]

I agree. The problem is that some questionable decisions from vanilla relating to class design are showing off now. For example:
- Arms and prot are ok as warrior spec, but fury doenst truly fit and it was just included to represent the orcish/horde front-liners.
- Hunter is a weird conglomerate of animal tamer, scout, ranger and trapper.
- Druid has 4 specs now because they had to split feral in 2 to fix the design problems of having tank and dps options in the same spec.

What I think they could do is rework Fury Warrior into a, e.g., Gladiator spec, shield + 1h dps with focus on debuffing the enemy (root with chains/nets, disarm, slow). At the same time rework Survival Hunter into a proper trapper like it was originaly. And then move Fury and Survival into a Barbarian class.

I don't see Arcane Mages lacking. They are mechanically different from any other spec.
I haven't played Destruction Warlock in a while, dunno if it's still the case, but last time they felt too close to Fire Mages. Maybe they could work the Arcane mechanics into Fire, and change Arcane to a Spellblade spec?

Rogues seem fine to me. You have pretty much the 3 main archetypes: the duelist (Outlaw), you have the assassin (Assassination), and you have the ninja (Subtlety).

What on earth? Fury pretty clearly fills the "Berserker" niche, which fits perfectly with the warrior class and no other.

[shoegazing]

It's pretty crystal clear at this point that one of the key problems with current class design...is that there is too much of it to be done for the devs.

Yet again we have several dead specs, several more that have poor mechanics, all dps basically has the same tools, etc etc.

On top of not adding anything, I think certain specs are really good candidates for removal. Sub rogues, arcane mages, demo locks, feral druids, arms wars, surv hunter, frost DK, Disc priest (as much as I love the concept of disc).

The idea being that you remove these specs, roll some of abilities/thematics into other specs, and have a healthier game.

For example, with arcane, you can easily give other specs some arcane spells. They are still a mage, all mages having access to arcane spells makes sense. Same with demo lock. Arms wars are just plain redundant with fury, its a pointless spec. All rogues can have subtlety elements. Etc etc etc.

<derailing-thread comment removed>

I have mained a Subtlety Rogue since 2005.

Subtlety doesn't need to be removed, it needs to be reverted to pre-Legion when it was an incredibly fun spec to play.|

Your ideas are utterly terrible though and this thread is obvious flame-bait.

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Rogues seem fine to me. You have pretty much the 3 main archetypes: the duelist (Outlaw), you have the assassin (Assassination), and you have the ninja (Subtlety).

Don't comment on this if you aren't a Rogue main please. Nobody cares your opinion on your 8th alt that you barely play.

[Seranthor]

Just to remind everyone of my original point, as people seem to be glossing over it.

Blizzard has shown that they can't handle designing and balancing 30+ specs. We had dead specs in legion also. When I say dead, I mean barely played, and seemingly abandoned by bliz, subtlety and survival being prime examples currently. I'd LOVE for there to be 30 vibrant, competitive, specs concurrently. I don't have faith this will ever happen.

Its a "greater good" sort of idea to remove specs, and not add a new class. Greater good solutions usually require some sacrifice. Feel free to disagree, thats fine, but i'd appreciate if you said why against my point. Do you have more faith in Bliz than I do?

This really sounds like someone that wants to burn the house down because they found a spider inside. Thats all you truly deserve as a 'why'. Dont like a spec then dont play it. It reallly IS that simple. Unless of course you want to sacrifice all the specs you play at the altar of 'the greater good'

[Octoberfest99]

its only a balancing nightmare cause players care if another spec/class does 3% hell even .01% more dps than their class does. IMO a 5% difference should be acceptable between top and lowest dps played by the average WoW player.

maybe they could just remove the ability for players to track DPS >.> (sorta joking)

I completely agree. The majority of the players choose a class/spec based on whether its fun for them, not whether it tops the meters. Most players do not raid beyond LFR and pug Normal. A dps gap of +/- 5% is not a big deal for how most players experience the game. Who cares if mythic guilds only bring 1 dps class to all raids. The same with top end mythic+ dungeons. They are going to re-roll toons every xpac and every patch to maximize their dps/tanking/healing anyway. If blizz buffed fire mage to the top of the charts, elite guilds would drop their demo locks and bust out their fire mages. IMO, devs should focus less on balancing and more on making classes/specs feeling fun.

[Craaazyyy]

Ya it would cause an uproar, deserved or not. People are more concerned with losing redundant specs than the health of the game. Sometimes you have to ignore the dumb playerbase. Not always, but sometimes.

reduntand specs? what?