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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Briselody View Post
    I would say that it's impossible for her to stick around, as every night elf fan would quit en masse if her genocide gets hand-waved away. But I'm not sure there's enough of us left at this point to make that much of a threat, so it's anyone's guess now.
    I mean, can't alliance be mad and try and seek revenge against sylvanas without hordes support? Or is it if horde doesn't remove her it gets hand-waved?

    It already is handwaved tbh, but saying it hinges on if she remains as warchief or not is weird to me.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by formerShandalay View Post
    Of course she can. She kills all dissenters and can rule by unanimous people's 'vote'.
    It's not like there's any rules to be nice. If she wants to be and stay warchief, she simply kills everyone who opposes her. Boom, done.
    How would that play out within the context of the current story?

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by formerShandalay View Post
    Exactly. Might makes right. She kills everyone who doesn't like her as warchief and she is and remains the warchief, with nobody speaking against her. Which, btw, is also why I put the 'vote' in quotes



    Well, yes, which will create some more conflict, but I don't think the Alliance objecting to her rule would overly concern Sylvanas
    You don't understand me. Alliance players think that she has to die immediately without any more of conflict "because yes". They want quick, nonsensical divine intervention to remove her from the story instantly.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by styil View Post
    Sure there has been a little friction as of late, but the Horde has churned through too many Warchieves.

    Is there any future path where Sylvanas can remain Warchief? From where the story is at as we know it right now. Is there any story arc that you can think of where Sylvanas can rightfully remain Warchief that can be considered remotely plausible? Or is it a 100% certainty that she will be dethroned?
    If the Horde are evil bastards, then yes she can remain Warchief.

    If the Horde have any honor, then no she cannot remain Warchief.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    When did they care about Horde feelings?
    I've never said that they care about Horde feelings. But demanding that Sylvi gets killed because "muh feelings as an Alliance player" is just hillarious.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    You don't understand me. Alliance players think that she has to die immediately without any more of conflict "because yes". They want quick, nonsensical divine intervention to remove her from the story instantly.
    As an Alliance player, I don't think any of that has to nor needs to happen to Sylvanis. She could just be imprisoned like Illian for all that matters. Bring her back in a few expansions to save the world Illian style for a recycled story like Blizzard likes to do. She could break up the horde and create another faction.

    She doesn't have to die...instantly nor by some "god-like" death. There are more complying reasons, story arcs, and gameplay by keeping her alive.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by styil View Post
    Isn't it a good thing that there is tension between the two factions under Sylvanas' rule? Why would anybody want Alliance wanting a Horde leader that they 'like'?
    Why would any Alliance player want Sylvanas to get away with what she did?

    I've never said that they care about Horde feelings. But demanding that Sylvi gets killed because "muh feelings as an Alliance player" is just hillarious.
    Notice how I didn't say that she needs to get killed, but that she must "pay for her crimes". Why do you think I left that ambiguous?

    You jump to conclusions and dare put words in my mouth, hilarious.

    This forum is really disgusting at times. How can you people have 0 sympathy for Alliance players?? "Oh, I wonder why Alliance players hate her and why they don't want her to remain Warchief."
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2019-06-05 at 03:45 PM.
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  8. #28
    some sort of redemption arc or "nzoth did it, now im fine" arc could let her stay. especially if it's thrall who redeems her of n'zoths influence. and if after her redemption she does some heroic act to save everybody that wouldn't hurt either.

    basically she could be like hellscream in war3, except survive. cinematic of her poking nzoths eye with knaifu could be cool.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Void Fallen View Post
    Notice how I didn't say that she needs to get killed, but that she must "pay for her crimes". Why do you think I left that ambiguous?

    You jump to conclusions and DARE put words in my mouth, hilarious.

    This forum is really disgusting at times. How can you people have 0 sympathy for Alliance players?? "Oh, I wonder why Alliance players hate her and why they don't want her to remain Warchief."
    Oh, I have sympathy for Alliance players. Blizz are the ones who don't. See Alliance story for the last several years. See how Nelves got handled after the Horde burns down their home (and rezzes a bunch of them into eternal torture).

    You know what the most likely ending is? Sylvanas being a questgiver for you in the Void Addon. That's how much this entire story sucks from both Horde AND Alliance POV.
    Last edited by Hubbl3; 2019-06-05 at 03:41 PM.

  10. #30
    The Patient Rathwirt's Avatar
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    If her whole story arc is some sort of master plan to destroy N'Zoth and heal the planet's wounds, sure. I don't believe for a second that Derek Proudmoore really was "rescued" by Baine. I feel that Sylvanas knew what he would do. But of course I've been surprised by the lack of depth in the writing before.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Void Fallen View Post
    Why would any Alliance player want Sylvanas to get away with what she did?



    Notice how I didn't say that she needs to get killed, but that she must "pay for her crimes". Why do you think I left that ambiguous?

    You jump to conclusions and DARE put words in my mouth, hilarious.

    This forum is really disgusting at times. How can you people have 0 sympathy for Alliance players?? "Oh, I wonder why Alliance players hate her and why they don't want her to remain Warchief."
    They wouldn't, and that's my point. Sylvanas remaining as Warchief is a good thing because it's a motivation for the Alliance. The alternative is having a happy Warchief that the Alliance likes, the Alliance and Horde being best buds and blurring the faction lines once again. Which would completely undo everything this expansion has set up for.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by styil View Post
    How would that play out within the context of the current story?
    It'll require copouts, but then, not copouts that we won't get anyway, since everyone except Sylvanas will get away with everything Horde-side anyway. The main steps are two:

    1. Sylvanas is actually not an old god puppet and her nebulous goal would benefit the Horde.
    2. She maintains her popular support.

    From there you have a scenario where Sylvanas initiates her plan, but thanks to the Alliance and/or the rebels it fails. This maintains the good will the population have for Sylvanas and further tanks the rebels, but also has Sylvanas figure out that if she were less of a cartoon villain she wouldn't be sabotaged like this, so she pardons them. They hate her, but get along since they have no hope of an overthrow except for Baine who's fed to the dogs. The Alliance remain opposed to the Horde, with the nelves nabbing their Kalimdor gains back. Then the old gods show up and weaken the factions enough that only a cold war is presently plausible.

    Is any of this a good idea? No. But it can be done. It also ensures minimal damage to the Horde cast, a ground for the faction war and unlike canon, it means that the Alliance don't have to forgive the Horde, but instead both factions maintain their grounds for conflict.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

    Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by styil View Post
    They wouldn't, and that's my point. Sylvanas remaining as Warchief is a good thing because it's a motivation for the Alliance. The alternative is having a happy Warchief that the Alliance likes, the Alliance and Horde being bust buds and blurring the faction lines once again.
    Yes, we've had that motivation for 10 months now, perhaps the time has come to end the motivation stage and get to the completion at last.
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  14. #34
    These posts about "redeeming" Sylvanas are disgusting. I don't think Blizzard could write the story worse than that. This is worse than the "Sylvanas did nothing wrong" garbage that is still floating around.

    I liked Sylvanas as a character, and frankly I do not dislike her even now. But trying to 'save' her or 'redeem' her would utterly and completely ruin her character. Killing her off would be a mercy to her greatest fans (of which I am not a part of) compared to that. Sylvanas's most defining feature is that she has always been above redemption.

  15. #35
    With her massive plot armour she might.

    Quote Originally Posted by styil View Post
    Isn't it a good thing that there is tension between the two factions under Sylvanas' rule? Why would anybody want Alliance wanting a Horde leader that they 'like'?
    Tensions are what the Baltic countries have with Putin.

    This is open warfare because she went REEEE, thereby confirming every sexist trope that women are too emotional to lead.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Given that the whole expansion is about axing her to induce faction unity, no, unless all the bitching has them change their mind at the last second.
    what??? how???? what revenge? killing a val? More then 900 civilians died on Teldrassil /facepalm

    - - - Updated - - -

    Sylvanas fanboys are the worst. It's like non of you played before Cata.... The forsaken intro when you make a damn forsaken has always been "We are using the horde" as a means to an end so Sylvanas can carry out her plan to turn everyone undead LOL. Like STFU about Sylvanas go make you GF or mom dress up in cosplay and go fulfill your fantasies.

    Infracted.
    Last edited by Aucald; 2019-06-07 at 10:03 PM. Reason: Received Infraction

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by HoodKazekage View Post
    what??? how???? what revenge? killing a val? More then 900 civilians died on Teldrassil /facepalm
    It's actually far more, Tyrande mentions it's the majority of the nelf population in the novella. But don't worry, only Sylvanas is responsible for this. The Horde armies that ran over the entirety of the night elf ancestral lands, fired the catapults over Saurfang's objections (after he'd done everything before hand) and the shamans who helped spread the flames to help the tree burn more did nothing wrong. Neither did the entire population that backed her unconditionally up until like 8.2.5 or whenever.

    But don't you see? Baine brought Jaina's zombie brother back to her and Saurfang and Thrall are very sad now, so let's be friends.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

    Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by styil View Post
    How would that play out within the context of the current story?
    Well, I have different thoughts about how I wish this would get handled and how I think Blizz would handle it.
    The way I wish it goes is that an evil Horde gets created, representing the powers of death and destruction: necromancers, warlocks, dark shaman, 'death-druids' (kind of like the Gorak Tul-Drust with blood sacrifices and soul magic and all of that kind of shenanigans) and of course all classes that can be either good or evil, as the player decides for their specific character, go there.
    The rest of the world goes into a 'life and creation' faction, not necessarily always agreeing on their methods (like shaman and druids not always agreeing with everything Paladins want to and so on)
    What I think Blizz will do is that Sylvanas simply becomes an antagonist for the future and she has no playable faction, so everyone must keep playing good guys. Horde goes back to WC3 Horde, Alliance stays what it is, maybe later with a more zealous 'light' splinter group causing civil unrest there.


    The story would go something like that: Sylvanas tricks all dissenters into coming together (maybe because she makes them see an opportunity to kill her or something) and sacrifices them to either N'Zoth or maybe Helya or any other higher power she has a deal with. Most of them may actually die, some may get rescued, but on the whole everyone who was against her is diminished in power, because they have no more base to support them. Sylvanas declares the Horde to be hers and welcomes everyone who is willing to go along with her plan to make the world a place of undeath, make the Titansoul become an Undead Titan (as larger end-goal and the thing the other faction will fight against). Then of course you can still have some unrest and internal strife in that faction, because everyone is actually underneath the surface plotting against everyone else.
    The other faction will have the goal of keeping the Titan 'pure' and 'alive', some of them like druids and shaman still valuing balance on the whole, but maybe for example the paladins leaning more towards 'only light may prevail', which can cause internal unrest there too.

    Both factions internally serve one goal, in the evil one everyone using every means possible to make themselves powerful enough and independent from actual 'higher beings' so they can be free of the whims of Naaru, Elements, Gods, and what have you and in the good one they seek to cooperate with higher beings but also trying to not fall for their tricks and getting led to some unknown 'greater' destiny, but more through compromise and cooperation but by forcefully taking what they see as their rightful share of the world.
    You have both factions regularly under attack by higher powers, some of the light and some of the shadow, who try and undermine their effort for their own ends and seek to control them outright, without needing to cooperate or seek compromises with them.

  19. #39
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    no she can't, there is no such excuse of "we pass through to many" just to stay with one of the worst

    She just don't fit, both thematically(a pretty high elf LUL) and logically, simple as that, she don't represent it and almost all she stand for antagonize most of the horde

    She was never mean to be a solid thing to stay for expansions to come, for obvious reasons, she was just a plot device to make the horde look bad and we have a excuse for "the biggest war evar", the soon she goes away the better for the horde identity.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Briselody View Post
    I would say that it's impossible for her to stick around, as every night elf fan would quit en masse if her genocide gets hand-waved away. But I'm not sure there's enough of us left at this point to make that much of a threat, so it's anyone's guess now.
    Doesnt really matter what alliance players think tho on the choice of the leader of the horde.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Crabs have been removed from the game... because if I see another one I’m just going to totally lose it. *sobbing* I’m sorry, I just can’t right now... I just... OK just give me a minute, I’ll be OK..

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