Spelladin, new Retribution meta for classic

[collax]

https://classicwow.live/guides/314/s...ase-1-new-meta

This seem interesting, by stacking spell damage and using manual crowd pummeler (yeah the same weapon that feral have to farm to top dps) to get more sor proc. With a shadow oil on the weapon (that should stack with spellpower) combined with fast attack speed and double proc with sor you apparently get some nice dps.

On top of that this build allow more hybrid possibilities, you can switch to heal even midfight if needed and still be decent thank to the spellpower. Cleanse can also be used midswing.

The big downside is that this build seem more dependant on consumable and mcp than even feral druid. So only for try hard i guess.

It's definitively impressive than even 15 years after vanilla was released that people still find new builds to play.

[Thunderball]

This is not new. Reason why you never heard about it is because it sucks. Also, scaling for most seals is incorrect on most popular server-that-cannot-be-named, so if that has been tested there the results are going to be way different on Classic.

[collax]

This is not new. Reason why you never heard about it is because it sucks. Also, scaling for most seals is incorrect on most popular server-that-cannot-be-named, so if that has been tested there the results are going to be way different on Classic.

The use of mcp is definitively new. I also saw that one of the guy behind this theorycrafting of this also have access to the beta and said he expect about 7% dps loss compared to the server he tested on so it should still be viable (a few thing still need to be tested at max level to be sure it really work as intended).

[Trend]

Not to split hairs, but "meta" isn't the right term to use for a spec that is immensely underwhelming. The term "meta" stands for the most effective tactic available. I think it's cool that Classic gives you the option to come up with all sorts of combinations to do a crazy build that nobody else in their right mind would play, but don't confuse that with having a variety of good builds, much less completely different metas.

- - - Updated - - -

The use of mcp is definitively new.

Just spent 30 seconds to find a thread about a ret using MCP in Vanilla (discussion was from 2009):

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...-ret-playstyle

Sorry, your "new" thing isn't new.

[Unholyground]

Play what you want, the serious guilds are not going to accept 99% of the player base anyways so make a niche build and destroy with it.

[gaymer77]

Gotta love how this "spelladin" build that is based around spell damage has multiple pieces of gear that are melee focused including that supposed BiS weapon MCP

[Rainyhealz]

Good luck getting the gear

[NecroLars]

The term "meta" stands for the most effective tactic available..

Haha no it doesn't! Meta is a Greek prefix meaning something along the lines of "beyond" and is used as a shortening of the term metagaming. A basic example of metagaming behaviour would be changing strategies based on your knowledge outside of the game. If you are duelling a rogue that you personally know and you, therefore, have knowledge of when he, for example, usually vanishes or uses his engineering grenades/bombs you are using meta knowledge.

[Thunderball]

The use of mcp is definitively new. I also saw that one of the guy behind this theorycrafting of this also have access to the beta and said he expect about 7% dps loss compared to the server he tested on so it should still be viable (a few thing still need to be tested at max level to be sure it really work as intended).

Mhm. With actual seal scaling MCP wont be viable over a proper spellpower mainhand.

[Alex86el]

while i understand this is part of Vanilla's "charm" (aka, half-arsed development)

i think that gimmicks such as:
farming Manual Crowd Pummeler (1h cooldown)
or druids' "power-shifting" with Wolfshead Helm, or the horde "jumps" in WSG..
and other such things...

should be "fixed" and given to those classes as base improvements.
what i mean is... lets say (for argument's sake) that a druid using Wolfshead Helm and Manual Crowd Pummeler does 3% more dps during a raid boss encounter.
just give druids a 3% increase to their base damage, and remove such gimmicky, immersion-breaking, silly-looking, nonsensical exploits.

i'm using druid as an example. but same goes for any similar case, like the paladin-Pummeler the OP talks about.

ps: yeah, yeah.. i know. no changes.
it's not like i expect blizzard to do this.

[Trend]

Haha no it doesn't! Meta is a Greek prefix meaning something along the lines of "beyond" and is used as a shortening of the term metagaming. A basic example of metagaming behaviour would be changing strategies based on your knowledge outside of the game. If you are duelling a rogue that you personally know and you, therefore, have knowledge of when he, for example, usually vanishes or uses his engineering grenades/bombs you are using meta knowledge.

LOL you're funny. I didn't look at your one other post but I hope it is as good.

[Thunderball]

while i understand this is part of Vanilla's "charm" (aka, half-arsed development)

i think that gimmicks such as:
farming Manual Crowd Pummeler (1h cooldown)
or druids' "power-shifting" with Wolfshead Helm, or the horde "jumps" in WSG..
and other such things...

should be "fixed" and given to those classes as base improvements.
what i mean is... lets say (for argument's sake) that a druid using Wolfshead Helm and Manual Crowd Pummeler does 3% more dps during a raid boss encounter.
just give druids a 3% increase to their base damage, and remove such gimmicky, immersion-breaking, silly-looking, nonsensical exploits.

i'm using druid as an example. but same goes for any similar case, like the paladin-Pummeler the OP talks about.

ps: yeah, yeah.. i know. no changes.
it's not like i expect blizzard to do this.

People still dont understand why retail is failing, mindboggling.

[collax]

while i understand this is part of Vanilla's "charm" (aka, half-arsed development)

i think that gimmicks such as:
farming Manual Crowd Pummeler (1h cooldown)
or druids' "power-shifting" with Wolfshead Helm, or the horde "jumps" in WSG..
and other such things...

should be "fixed" and given to those classes as base improvements.
what i mean is... lets say (for argument's sake) that a druid using Wolfshead Helm and Manual Crowd Pummeler does 3% more dps during a raid boss encounter.
just give druids a 3% increase to their base damage, and remove such gimmicky, immersion-breaking, silly-looking, nonsensical exploits.

i'm using druid as an example. but same goes for any similar case, like the paladin-Pummeler the OP talks about.

ps: yeah, yeah.. i know. no changes.
it's not like i expect blizzard to do this.

Those gimmicky thing are what i love about vanilla so i will say no. I really don't see why clever use of game mechanics and gimmick item would bother you.
I really hate when every single thing that weren't thought by blizzard as the standard way to build your char get nerfed every time.

[NecroLars]

LOL you're funny. I didn't look at your one other post but I hope it is as good.

I just created this user just to make sure you didn't go around thinking a word meant one thing when it really didn't. Personally, I would much rather be corrected and then be right than being wrong without knowing it.

Where did you get this weird idea of meta being some sort of backronym?

EDIT: Just to be clear: Most Effective Tactic Available sorta fits as an explanation to metagaming because the most effective tactic would usually be the one that uses knowledge beyond the game. But it is still not the correct term.

[Alex86el]

Those gimmicky thing are what i love about vanilla so i will say no. I really don't see why clever use of game mechanics and gimmick item would bother you.

Because usually such gimmicks look silly and out of place.
They usually ruin immersion, and remove the RP from the RPG.

Oh look,
i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat!
oh look, i'm jumping on weird graphics!
oh look, i'm walking on walls! etc etc

Totally awesome stuff.

[Trend]

I just created this user just to make sure you didn't go around thinking a word meant one thing when it really didn't. Personally, I would much rather be corrected and then be right than being wrong without knowing it.

Where did you get this weird idea of meta being some sort of backronym?

EDIT: Just to be clear: Most Effective Tactic Available sorta fits as an explanation to metagaming because the most effective tactic would usually be the one that uses knowledge beyond the game. But it is still not the correct term.

Can't figure out if you're serious or just a convincing troll. I still think the latter.

Go look at urban dictionary. Then use common sense. When someone says "what is the keystone meta this season" you think they're asking about your knowledge of the dungeon monsters outside the game - like maybe you hang out with them after work? The throw-away NecroLars account's definition of the term would render the question entirely nonsensical.

I took Greek in college so I know what meta means, but the prefix is nearly completely unrelated to how the term is used in MMO's today. Q. What is the tank meta for BFA season 2 keystones? A. Warrior. That has nothing to do with understanding something outside the game or going beyond something or any of that nonsense. It is a simple statement that warrior gives you the easiest path forward based on math and observation. If you know what "meta" means it's an easy question to understand and answer. If you're NecroLars it's something else.

[Livnthedream]

Why would spellpower help with healing?!

[collax]

Why would spellpower help with healing?!

Because it also increase your heals ?

[NecroLars]

Not a throw-away just a former lurker
I would not consider the Urban Dictionary a reliable source, to be frank. While it is great for everyday slang, "meta" and "metagaming" are well-established terms.

When someone says "what is the keystone meta this season" you think they're asking about your knowledge of the dungeon monsters outside the game - like maybe you hang out with them after work?

It feels like you are being deliberately silly when straw-manning my argument to be about monsters outside the game - that would, of course, be silly. The question being asked is really about two sides of the same coin:
"how/what other people are playing?" (which dungeon, what combination of classes and so on)
AND
"what is best right now?" (which dungeon, what combination of classes and so on).

This is why I wrote the following earlier:

EDIT: Just to be clear: Most Effective Tactic Available sorta fits as an explanation to metagaming because the most effective tactic would usually be the one that uses knowledge beyond the game. But it is still not the correct term.

In most situations (not all) answering this question of yours requires out-of-game knowledge. Are you bringing a warrior tank to your M+ dungeons because you tested all other combinations of tanks personally or are you bringing one because other people tested it, everyone else is doing it and getting great times and therefore it must be the best options? If the latter is true, then congratulations you just used out-of-game knowledge to come to your conclusions.

I think the reason for the creation of the backronym (Most Effective Tactic Available) is, as you can probably tell, that in most cases using out-of-game knowledge leads to well.. the most effective tactic available. Please remember that my point isn't that metagaming doesn't not use the most effective tactics, but simply that the term "meta" is well established and fits video computer (especially at the competitive level) perfectly fine.

I sincerely hope you still don't think I'm just another troll. Looking forward to your reply!

EDIT: I know you said "how the term is used in MMO's today" but the term is used the same way in other games as well. Overwatch, Dota 2, Hearthstone etc. Actually I think the explanation on the Hearthstone wiki is particularly good. As I cannot post links yet, you can find the link if you search "Hearthstone wiki metagaming" if you would like to read it.

[Machismo]

It's not really a new idea. That rough build was played in Vanilla, and it was pretty damn weak, overall.