What I dont understand of players who want vanilla wow.

[justandulas]

You don't.

I am not being facetious here. You do NOT try and balance 8 classes. Back in Vanilla, the terms used were "Hard Counters". Of 8 classes maybe 2 were hard counters... two classes that could bust your butt. 2 classes you could butt theirs... and the rest cold kinda go either way.

PvP was never really intended to be a class on class 1v1 endeavor.

For example. Mage vs. Warrior. Mage is a hard counter to warrior due to slowing and kiting. If you gave Warriors more ability to counter those things... then Warrior would be a hard counter to mages. There is no middle ground.

The problem arose when people wanted to balance PvE damage output because... "Damage meters and stuffz" You cannot have all classes do similar damage, but have some who can mitigate more damage than others. There MUST be counters... high damage, low mitigation.... or low damage, high mitigation/healing... or medium damage, low mitigation but high mobility.


You cannot balance both PvE and PvP especially when one was never designed to be balanced, but countered.


If you want balanced 1v1... duel another of your class.

Paper, rock, scissors is a better design philosophy for balance than spreadsheet design

[Specialka]

I think Bellural sums it up well with his "meaningful work" video, should check that out. Achievements feel like quick highs with boredom to follow. Its the whole experience that should feel meaningful, when you get just stuff and achievements every here and there for not even realizing you did something they feel dull.

Obv, farming pvp to get rank 14 is so meaningful. It is just farm aka time, not even skill. What a meaningful thing to do.

[dreamdaddy]

Obv, farming pvp to get rank 14 is so meaningful. It is just farm aka time, not even skill. What a meaningful thing to do.

You won't get Rank 14 unless you get into some kind of BG premade group. Spamming random BGs with other ungrouped players will not produce enough honor to get where you need to be. In order to be accepted into one of these groups, you have to be good at your class and generally you have to have decent social skills. It's not something where you can join a group in LFG and sperg out at the first inconvenience. Accountability and the reputation you earn mean something.

Frankly, if anyone doesn't get the appeal of slowing down the game and putting more of an emphasis on the social aspect of MMORPGs by now, you probably never will. Just steer clear of Classic discussion and leave us in peace.

[Specialka]

Hey, I do not mind if you get your unbalanced, no skill version of wow. Just stay clear of BFA as well and ask your community to stop shitting on it, Kthxbye.

[Akka]

We'll thanks for replies all. I got a bit more inligthened.

Seems most people ride the nostalgic train.

Your second sentence proves the first wrong.
After ten pages of people explaining why they prefer one DESIGN PHILOSOPHY over another, you still just throw the trollish "it's nostalgia". Sounds like a troll.

- - - Updated - - -

But at the same time, that meant only the minutest percent of players ever got to set foot in Naxxramas, let alone beat it.

It meant that you missed on a small part of the content, with most of it being relevant at any time. Any step feels rewarding.
In modern WoW, you miss on most of the content, with only a small part being relevant at any time. Nothing but the last step feels rewarding.

The first case looks much better than the second one.

[Specialka]

In your opinion. Do not forget that.

[Akasha64]

Yeah, been there and done that. That's one of the reasons I might sub only for a month or two to classic but not much more, because I've been there before. I did everything in vanilla up to Four Horsemen in Naxx40. And the last 2 bosses I didn't see (Sapphiron and KT), I saw in WoTLK Naxx, so that counts a little bit. I also made it to rank 14 PvP. So there isn't much in vanilla that I didn't achieve apart from killing the last few bosses in Naxx40. I am having a lot of fun though seeing streamers on Twitch experiencing vanilla WoW for the first time and going through all the content I did so long ago.

I always thought though even back in WotLK/Cata that vanilla were the best times and longed for those days, but at the end of the day I can't justify paying 15 bucks a month or 180 bucks a year for a game that is not only old but that I also already played. If classic WoW was free, I'd play it more though. I mean I still visit games I beat in the 90s like Ocarina of Time, so there's no reason that shouldn't apply to WoW. Though WoW, unlike those games, is not free.

[ornichi]

I think Bellural sums it up well with his "meaningful work" video, should check that out. Achievements feel like quick highs with boredom to follow. Its the whole experience that should feel meaningful, when you get just stuff and achievements every here and there for not even realizing you did something they feel dull.

oh my gosh, quoting Bellular is some new kind of naivety. Be sure to check his Novermber 13th video "Where Classic eventually failed" after they make some big BlizzCon announcement considering 8.3 and 9.0 and people are finally burned out with 4 months of farming boars for ribs in vanilla. He is a content creator, so he is gonna be wherever they have fresh and exciting news.

[Armourboy]

oh my gosh, quoting Bellular is some new kind of naivety. Be sure to check his Novermber 13th video "Where Classic eventually failed" after they make some big BlizzCon announcement considering 8.3 and 9.0 and people are finally burned out with 4 months of farming boars for ribs in vanilla. He is a content creator, so he is gonna be wherever they have fresh and exciting news.

He's spent the bulk of his time with retail still. Tbh he's one of the few that haven't just sold their soul for the Classic dollars recently.

[Collected]

3. YOU ALREADY KNOW EVERYTHING THAT WILL HAPPEN! Right now I will bet my ass some guy is already making new addons just for vanilla wow, people making guides on youtube, and icy veins will tell you the best classes and specs.

There is no exploration, its Azeroth Auto pilot x 100. Old content dosent have any surprises.

But that's the case in retail. I know everything in retail. And if you consider classic to be auto pilot x 100, then retail is auto pilot x 10000.

In retail I can ding roughly every 15 minutes. Often quicker due to quest turn in cycles. In classic I have to watch how many mobs I pull, save every penny I loot and make decisions about spells, mana usage, buffs, pet agro, which pet I use.... etc etc etc etc. The list is long of the things I have to think about in classic. In retail? I don't have to think at all. I just click NPC, accept quest, go pull every mob on my screen, AOE them down, and repeat. Over and over again. And I face no possibility of death 1-110 unless I make a silly mistake like fall damage or my dungeon group healer quits after a huge pull.

For me, personally, I struggle to hold any interest in that. Classic offers me something to be interested about.

[Jamie081]

Classic WoW a much slower game that requires much more time investment, but also maintains accessibility to casual players who are interested in the journey and not the 'gimme gimme' instant gratification destination. It's not hard to understand that some people want the turtle pace back.

[clevin]

...at the end of the day I can't justify paying 15 bucks a month or 180 bucks a year for a game that is not only old but that I also already played....

So... don't? For people who aren't going to play Classic for whatever reason... that's nice. We don't really care or need to know.

[Armourboy]

Classic WoW a much slower game that requires much more time investment, but also maintains accessibility to casual players who are interested in the journey and not the 'gimme gimme' instant gratification destination. It's not hard to understand that some people want the turtle pace back.

I just don't want to be handed everything just because I'm casual. If you can't do the content you shouldn't get the gear. On live if you just wait 6 months they will hand it to you for basically doing nothing.

[Jamie081]

I just don't want to be handed everything just because I'm casual. If you can't do the content you shouldn't get the gear. On live if you just wait 6 months they will hand it to you for basically doing nothing.

But that's the desire that many players have shown to Blizzard. They don't have the time to play so why should they be left behind? It's a sense of entitlement that has turned the progression and gearing system into what it is today. Titanforging allows players with no time to play the RNG chance to get gear on the same level as those who spend countless hours playing.

[Armourboy]

But that's the desire that many players have shown to Blizzard. They don't have the time to play so why should they be left behind? It's a sense of entitlement that has turned the progression and gearing system into what it is today. Titanforging allows players with no time to play the RNG chance to get gear on the same level as those who spend countless hours playing.

I just don't get it. I literally had done nothing in this expansion and was right at 400 ilevel when I quit. Did 1 mythic 5 man, never even did every 5 man on normal or heroic, maybe a LFR or two. Just blows my mind.

[ManiaCCC]

And yet one of the biggest complaints about BFA is things being put on the gcd to slow play down. Does not compute.

Well, maybe it's because current BfA playerbase is not really interested in slower pace? It's all about smashing head over keyboard and see tons of numbers flying around.

[MardestyGSOG]

Hey, I do not mind if you get your unbalanced, no skill version of wow. Just stay clear of BFA as well and ask your community to stop shitting on it, Kthxbye.

we will stay clear of it, like 1000 miles clear of it as most of us already have.

and whos community does the shitting here?

[Charge me Doctor]

I just don't get it. I literally had done nothing in this expansion and was right at 400 ilevel when I quit. Did 1 mythic 5 man, never even did every 5 man on normal or heroic, maybe a LFR or two. Just blows my mind.

That's 3-5 gear pieces at best, they'd have to be 1k-2k ilvl pieces for you to be 400 ilvl. So you definitely did something else but "literally nothing in this expansion". And 400ilvl is an raid-entry-level gear, that's where you start getting gear, not where you stop

[Jurwi]

You won't get Rank 14 unless you get into some kind of BG premade group. Spamming random BGs with other ungrouped players will not produce enough honor to get where you need to be. In order to be accepted into one of these groups, you have to be good at your class and generally you have to have decent social skills. It's not something where you can join a group in LFG and sperg out at the first inconvenience. Accountability and the reputation you earn mean something.

Frankly, if anyone doesn't get the appeal of slowing down the game and putting more of an emphasis on the social aspect of MMORPGs by now, you probably never will. Just steer clear of Classic discussion and leave us in peace.

Yea that's just utter bullshit. Most R14's in my server back in the day were from same chinese group, and they basically lost everything. They knew how to farm fuckton of honor 20 hours a day though. R14 had absolutely nothing to do with skill.

[khalltusk]

I play my old games quite a lot (Original C&C Dune 2 etc). Even though they are dated both graphically and mechanically they are enjoyable.

Classic wow will offer a similar experience but the game will be able to work fine on a Modern system. That and I can play on the world map that no longer exists.