have fun asking why you got booted from the raid.
Give you a hint: it rhymes with BOT FEELING
We're all newbs, some are just more newbier than others.
Just a burned out hardcore raider turned casual.
I'm tired. So very tired. Can I just lay my head on your lap and fall asleep?
#TeamFuckEverything
+spell damage did affect all spell damage.
but spell damage and bonus healing were not on the same stat till... I think wrath? I remember running around quel'danas as resto druid and my thorns did better dmg overall than my damage spells when aoe pulling so I had an easier time dealing with packs by mass pulling and healing myself rather than wait for wrath/starfire casts.
edit:
from the 3.0.2 path notes -
Spell Power:
All items and effects which grant bonuses to spell damage and spell healing are being consolidated into a single stat, Spell Power. This stat will appear with the same values found on items which grant "increased spell damage and healing" such as on typical Mage and Warlock itemization.
For classes which do not heal, they should see no change in the character sheet other than new tooltip wording.
Healing characters will see their bonus healing numbers on the character sheet decrease, however, all healing spells have been modified to receive more benefit from Spell Power than they received from bonus healing, with a net effect of no change to the amount healed by their spells. Some talents have had to be rebalanced to accommodate this change, but the amount healed will remain roughly the same. In addition, some talents will provide only healing spell power.
So prior to this patch, healing power and spell damage were not the same stat and you either had bonus healing or bonus damage on gear.
school specific damage boosts were usually on more easily accessible or lower quality gear and are a different thing still.
Last edited by mickybrighteyes; 2019-06-07 at 01:08 AM.
I think it's quite the opposite. It increases immersion and game depth when such things are available. What you are talking about removes knowledge requirement, theorycrafting, the excitement of the testing if the build can work, and lowers the skill ceiling.
To stay with your example: Powershifting is not that easy todo. Reducing the impact of good powershifting reduces the skill ceiling as well.
That's not a good way to improve the game. Except if the company requires very dull players to keep subscriptions up.
The way it worked in vanilla is that if it said "damage and healing" it increased both stats. If it said "increase healing" it only increased healing not damaging spells. It wasn't until Wrath that "spellpower" became something that both damage casters and healers used as their primary stat to increase damage AND/OR healing. @Tehterokkar there was actually a weapon enchant in vanilla that increased all spell damage that was actually called "spellpower" and was for a 1H or 2H weapon. There was a healing version of that called "healing power" that only increased healing spells. Both dropped in MC. The other option for casters back then was either +9 int to a 2H or +22 to 1H or 2H but required Thorium Brotherhood rep & lots of mats to make. Casters were pretty much screwed in terms of glove enchants in vanilla until AQ popped. The only enchant to use was the riding skill one because everything else only helped melee abilities or increased gathering skill by 5.
Dude you're impossible. "Meta" isn't short for "metagaming" nor does it mean what you say it does. "Meta" means that it is the standard accepted build or team make up for the game currently. It has nothing to do with your personal knowledge of dueling some rogue and winning based on your personal knowledge of that one rogue (or any variance you want to come up with for that meaning). It simply means "X class is the generally accepted class for X activity" or "X build is the generally accepted build for X activity". Shadow priests weren't part of the meta in vanilla. Ele shaman were not part of the meta in vanilla. Fire mages were not part of the meta in vanilla during T1-2. Balance or feral druids were not part of the meta in vanilla. Paladins who aren't holy were not part of the meta in vanilla. I could go on & on but choose not to waste my time on someone who doesn't know what "meta" means.
From your link replace the words "deck", "sets of miniatures", and "playing pieces" with "class" or "build" and you have the exact definition of how "meta" is defined in gaming outside of those other games.
It wasn't until AQ came out that enchants gave separate +fire +shadow +frost spell damage. Before that, all enchants that increased spell damage was ALL schools of magic. Healing was a separate modifier in terms of enchants. The short of it is unless an item (not enchanted mind you) said +fire damage, +shadow damage, +nature damage, or +fire damage then it was damage AND healing increased by that item. If the item said "increases healing by X amount" then it only increased the healing of spells cast (does not include life drain or any type of "leech" type spell).
Get used to refreshing your greater blessings and earning that raid slot.
You're not to think you are anything special. You're not to think you are as good as we are. You're not to think you are smarter than we are. You're not to convince yourself that you are better than we are. You're not to think you know more than we do. You're not to think you are more important than we are. You're not to think you are good at anything. You're not to laugh at us. You're not to think anyone cares about you. You're not to think you can teach us anything.
I'll have to basically live in the game to make this thing work, and convince lots of players that it's worth wasting their time too to help you to pull that crap.
It's also not new, people were trying to make this work back in vanilla, but quickly realized that it doesn't work. The blizzard made it possible in TBC
- - - Updated - - -
I don't understand why some people imply that vanilla players were oblivious of mcp? No, they weren't. Some people tried farming it and using it in raids but quickly realized how much time it takes and how it's not worth it (just imagine those hours put into mcp farm on your druid or whatever to be put into black lotus farm? and how your guild would even react on having a deadweight player who spends unreasonable amount of time doing his "wrong" role for a raid, while if he would put his time into "right" role you would probably end current raid tier already?)
Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
They are correct in saying that knowing how a particular rogue plays and when they would be most likely to use certain items/abilities does fall under the term of metagaming, but they are incorrect in saying that it is just that, since "X, Y, and Z classes are the generally accepted classes for W Activity" and "X build is the generally accepted build for Y Activity" are also metagaming.
If you want to classify it though: A Meta is more like what stuff does best in a particular setting while metagaming has to do with how said stuff or particular players tend to play and countering that. Like the difference between saying "Leblanc, Akali, Zed, and Corki are the meta picks for midlane" vs "Faker prefers playing characters with great roaming capabilities, so shutting down his ability to do so is the way to best beat him"
There were effectively 2 types of spell empowerment gear. One type increased everything and explicitly said +x damage and healing. The other was limited to one specific thing, i.e. + fire damage, + healing, + shadow damage. And the bonuses on these specific ones were higher than the generic +x damage and healing effects. So yes, you're correct, just with the addition of + school specific damage gear. This has been replicated in the Classic beta and I can attest from firsthand experience it works exactly as described.
The people discussing meta are both essentially correct...
Meta can be short for metagaming, which is the game about the game. Meta can also stand for the "most effective tactic available". Here's two sentences using them differently:
The meta pick for Mythic Plus dungeons right now are warriors.
I am going to duel a rogue; due to my meta knowledge I know I need to hit him with a DoT right away to break stealth.
Metagaming can often lead to the most effective tactic, but you cannot substitute metagaming for meta in the first sentence. Nor could you replace meta with "most effective tactic available" in the second. Words can have multiple meanings, crazy I know!
You could consider the "most effective tactic available" a subset of metagaming in general. Generally speaking, metagaming can refer to all sorts of interactions around the game without being in the game. As an example, Wowhead is a massive database of metagame information. It contains loads of information not available in the game. The fact that you can have knowledge about other classes and roles and make decisions based on that is metagaming. Back in the world of D&D tabletop games, the term metagaming was used to denote when players would talk about the game in real life and then take that knowledge and act on it even though it did not appear in game. A good example, if you were running a module, would be to buy a second version of the module, read it, and make decisions based on what you know would happen. Deadly Boss Mods is metagaming. Another more basic example would be a mage loving and playing fire all the time, then swapping to frost before running Molten Core. There is no way they could have known to do that without first trying it as fire, unless they used metagaming information.
When it comes to language, words can mean and stand for various different things.
“You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit me.”
– C.S. Lewis
why would you ever use a lvl 20 weapon instead of just a better lvl 1h weapon with fast attack speed then and some proper stats on the weapon.
or is it some pserver bug that you keep to on use effect 50% haste when you switch weapons?
Oh hey, i remember trying that build on one of our guilds off nights, it was uhhh... nowhere near as effective as it sounds.
If you want to make a spell damage paladin, go with a basic spell damage gear setup, go for holy shock with some points in ret, get lucky with a Shard of the Fallen Star in AQ40 and laugh your way through PVP.
Otherwise, try convince your guild to let you be the nightfall bot instead of one of the eight warriors or stick to healing sadly.
TEA IS DOWN!
Sylvanas is what you get when you cross Joffrey Baratheon with a mary sue. Change my mind. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Sor have different coefficient with 2h and 1h.
Also, one good thing to test (should be available on the beta) is if this work : https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/...ution_exploit/
torch of retribution is a quest item that count as a 2h, it has a 0.5 attack speed and no damage. If it proc SoR this would be even better than MCP (but it might be nerfed)
Has this been tested? Can you link the result? So far in the Beta no other speed increasing or speed decreasing effects have altered the Seals damage so why would MCP? The whole point of the haste stat is to increase your damage. It would be counter intuitive that your abilities would adjust themselves in damage to the point where there is no net increase in DPS. It would simply defeat the purpose of the stat.
(P.S I know you have not tested this. You have been in the same discord as where this build is being developed and you know we have tried to have had this tested every since someone hit 30 on the Beta. Whats the point stating things you know for a fact have not been tried?)
To everyone else in this thread. I cant understand why so many people seem so opposed to this build. The very first comment in this thread started off by saying the build sucks. Did you actually click the link and read about the build?
The goal here is not to make Paladins be #1 DPS in raids. We are never going to be the top DPS spot. The point is to take an objective look at Paladins, then try to figure out what the class is actually capable of in a raid setting.
Is this really so terrible?
Some of you people in this thread act as though everything had already been tried back in Vanilla and there is nothing else to figure out. Obviously this is not the case since there dont exist a single build guide anywhere that mentions MCP for a Paladin. The build would also not have been possible before patch 1.9 meaning it was only possible to do this build for a small part of Vanillas lifespan in a time where Paladins with access to the kind of gear this build needs would already have cemented their raidspots as a healer.
The chances that someone would have tried this build would be exceedingly low and the chances that people in this thread stating "The build was tried" would have even heard about it, is even smaller.
I'm actually really disappointed seeing how little interest people have in experimenting and trying new things in this game. We are playing a game that released in 2004, and all I see are people who, let's be honest, have not bothered to look at how this build work or spent any significant time with Paladin mechanics.
Yet instead of being open minded and taking an objective look at how this build functions, you just flat out state the build sucks, or crack jokes about how Paladins better get ready to cast those Blessings. I really hoped people were more mature than this and would be open minded to new ideas.
But no. It's easier to just ridicule over trying to understand I guess.
If there's anything about the build you specifically disagree with that you think will not make the build viable in Classic then please, state your concerns. But saying the build sucks when you clearly did not look at the build? Just why?
Is it really worth it to trash on anything new (That btw you know that you have not looked closely at) just because it feels good the 30 seconds it takes you to type a response where you can feel superior to someone else? Grow up.
Last edited by Holyfrog; 2019-06-08 at 11:51 AM.
That's "meta"? El Oh El...
The damage is simply not there.