Do you think Classic will Overtake Retail?

[Kithelle]

This forum is a cesspool of shrills, including u.

Awww, let me guess....you're one of the people who has been crying DOOOOOMMMMMM for the last year or more and you're upset the game is still alive and kicking despite you're great vision?

[khazmodan]

I'm genuinely shocked that anyone at all still plays retail.

I agree, obviously the only ones left playing retail are people that can't let go of a game they have put so much time into and collected so many things. The game is terrible right now though and all but the Blizzard tools agree with this.

[Cosmic Janitor]

150k only is awful and that was FREE lol its going to be less then ouch.

While I'm not fond of classic at all, the money part will be counterbalanced by being an official game, with the guarantee of persistency and the exposure of being part of Bli$$ards eco system. Also the hype is through the roof already.

[sirmalta]

Not by a long shot.

[Madwand01]

If Twitch is anything to go by, it already has.

[Relapses]

If Twitch is anything to go by, it already has.

That's a nope.

[Fred Skinner]

Gotta disagree here. Bellular made some very salient points and whether he referenced a book about management or a book about game theory it' pretty irrelevant as both deal with the psychology of how people interact and how to design systems to foster and promote that integration.

No, he mixes up a management book about career and real life issues with the behaviour of people in a computer game. First is esssnetial for life, second is something people do after they came home AFTER having to work for their career. Last is about sparetime, about having something else than working in shifts or for a management department. Playing a game should be completely separated from real life organization, even if games use tricks to engage players you could also use at jobs.

Literally, bellular uses a management training book on killing pixel bosses in a fairy tale adventure game. Which means, he uses the wrong philosophy for the wrong place.

If books like that influence game design, we exactly get millions of people who are not entirely adresses with the game and a toxic organized player crowd who plays the game as like they would work at a job.

[PrairieChicken]

Given that retails subs seem to be going down the sinkhole, I cannot rule out the possibility

[Alkizon]

they would work at a job

Something tells me that this statement grows from your hatred to what you do at work

You keep forgetting that work and hobbies are different for management (control and organization) from entertainment sphere, simply because it's so. And at least any serious games belong in this case to hobby category, but not to entertainment, to which you are trying to refer (otherwise, game turns into “content”, which is equivalent to stuff which you usually get from streamers; funny isn't it?). Which means, that hobby and work is something that is closer to each other. Not everyone is lucky in this *looking with a smirk on first sentence of the message*, but this is so. Ie management (including psychology of the process) principles completely coincide for them, which, incidentally, also applies to results... both "good" and "bad". You equate it to drinking in a bar, going to concert or play, casual trip to the forest/another country/beach... whatever, but you are deeply mistaken in your analogy. That's where from your error in current statements. I already laughed at it more than once in "difficulty modes" discussions, therefore, you haven't spell anything new right now

I understand, that devs, in this particular case, are making same mistake, but it's precisely the reason why they failing.

To be fair, I’ll clarify that I didn’t watch that video and naturally I don’t know what he is talking about there specifically, I don’t have neither desire to do it, nor patience to listen it in english (I'm not interested in receiving such "content", because I "have enough" of what is already in my head ).

[Ghazan Julio]

Yes we're in the age of repetition and remakes for games and movies alike.

[Adviceanon]

I think classic will pave the way for a new generation of racist and misogynist gamers.

[Alkizon]

I think classic will pave the way for a new generation of racist and misogynist gamers.

Well...

It's time to learn responsibility, which retail made you forget, isn't it?

[MoanaLisa]

I agree, obviously the only ones left playing retail are people that can't let go of a game they have put so much time into and collected so many things. The game is terrible right now though and all but the Blizzard tools agree with this.

The game may be terrible for those that are playing it every day in an effort to stay current. If you're like me and playing it twice a week for 3-4 hours total it's fine. Taking oneself off any sort of gaming treadmill opens the game up in ways that many here cannot even imagine. I still don't think this is by any means their best expansion or anything like that but it's not the worst thing they've done either.

[Forogil]

Ulduar still have only 1 difficulty (players are free to complicate it themselves (but this is done through internal mechanics, and not through complexity choice) if they're in a hurry (so making encounter faster) or want to get a certain bonus, including optional bosses)

Ulduar had two main difficulties - 10 and 25-man (sometimes called "heroic" by Blizzard); with higher level of loot from 25-man - similarly as Vanilla and TBC had better loot from larger raids - assumedly the original idea was that you first did a raid as 10-man and then banded together with more players for the next challenge.

There were also multiple difficulty levels for many bosses - with different levels of loot; mostly with interesting mechanics - I believe only Hodir was "kill fast". It was good in principle, but they ran out of ideas for activating the mechanics.

Or in summary: you ran the same raid on a higher difficulty level after a few weeks - similarly as today.

And seriously: you link to Ulduar post-merging of 10- and 25-man, where I also believe they removed the better rewards for hard modes. Not a mistake that someone that raided when Ulduar was current would have done.

It's one thing to be nostalgic for one's own memory - it's another to be nostalgic for some distorted version of someone else's memory.

and you literally understood nothing of FIFA explanation

I have. Everyone is free to play such soccer, or run marathons in the real world - and people can compete in variations of these sports as well - like FIFA beach football and futsal. As long as it is a fairly normal competition you can beat the world record; or not.

[Alkizon]

Ulduar had two main difficulties - 10 and 25-man

Technically, it was the same mode, just devs didn't yet have flexible raid mechanism. Now they have it and it's 1 mode that is there, and difficulty modes, as it was written, aren't selected when entering, but are controlled by players in flight, as it should be for basic and right this game design, but what you have now is completely not like that (you choose more difficult, you get something better, and you don't need dungeons difficulty modes, everything is simple)

Am I writing incomprehensibly, or are you reading poorly?

Or in summary: you ran the same raid on a higher difficulty level after a few weeks - similarly as today.

But without unnecessary division into good players and bad ones, everyone played together and on same conditions and with same requirements (Do you want more and better? Try! No? Go further, but part of story won't be available to you (for this or that boss, dialogue, one location or another, which is not only an element of the battle, but also a new part of the content) - Come back when you'll be ready.). Ie, if you want to get all content - strain yourself, go through all its stages of story and progress.

Everyone is free to play such soccer

But only at the stage of progress available to them (which means for this game and content, which is also true for the world records of "this stage of progress", and now you even begin to compare its variety, and not specific competitions to which you so much tried to refer, do you trying to dodge? ). Do you still misunderstand the obvious?

[Phlegethon]

I think a lot of players will realize they are wrong, whenever they start to play classic.

Have you guys seen venruki newest video, he was one of the biggest naysayer and retail baby, but look at him now.

Haha, no...
I've done the vanilla thing, I'm good.

[Forogil]

In fact, it's a cheap cop-out that requires little additional resources and is akin, going back to my original car building analogy, to producing identical cars with slightly more horsepower and calling it a day and otherwise not further differentiating between product lines.

That would only be a problem if they slowed down the release of the different products.
Car manufacturers haven't done that - and continue to change the looks and other attributes of their cars.

Blizzard hasn't slowed down much either - Legion had about 40 raid bosses, TBC 53 or so; and the newer bosses have more mechanics.

- - - Updated - - -

Technically, it was the same mode, just devs didn't yet have flexible raid mechanism.

Technically the main 10/25-man difference were called normal mode and heroic mode; and they offered different difficulty and different loot.

Yes, you got better loot (as in higher level) by doing the 25-man raid. And you got even better loot when activating "hard mode".

Thus after you cleared it once you could go back and progress on the bosses at higher difficulty level for better loot; and it seems that Blizzard had planned that some would progress not only to hard modes but also from 10-man to 25-man (or "heroic mode") - and offered better loot for that transition as well.

The only difference compared to today is that you couldn't do kill FL with the help of towers and then get back the same week and kill FL without the towers for better loot; you had to wait until the next week.

Added:
https://web.archive.org/web/20161120...ead.com/ulduar

Bosses drop ilvl 219 loot on Normal 10s difficulty, ilvl 226 loot on Normal 25s and Heroic 10s difficulty, and ilvl 239 loot on Heroic 25s difficulty. Bosses do not share loot tables on 10s and 25s difficulty.

(Blizzard calling 25-man "heroic" didn't really catch on.)

Am I writing incomprehensibly, or are you reading poorly?

Above it's your understanding that is lacking.

But only at the stage of progress available to them (which means for this game and content, which is also true for the world records of "this stage of progress").

Here you are writing incomprehensibly, and your understanding is still lacking.

[edw]

Some people still don't understand that Classic and Live are design to complement each other, when there are content droughts on live people will swap to classic then swap for live when they release content.

[Niffo]

150k only is awful and that was FREE lol its going to be less then ouch.

- - - Updated - - -

You can't compare "retail" classic with a private server. Since lots of people including me wouldn't play on private servers anyways because the risk of the servers getting wiped was always too high of a risk. Not to mention, I think classic will not overtake retail, but I do think there is going to be a really steady community.

[Alkizon]

--- snip ---

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...8835940#post-3
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards...craft/58373978

25s gear up faster

how do they gear up faster?

5 loots 25 ppl = 20% of them get a loot
2 loots 10 ppl = 20% of them get a loot

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards...craft/63062666

Drops more loot.
Same mechanics. But you are going to have to go a different angle because it scales of course lile more mobs or slimes, etc.
More hp of course.

Classic hard mods never were current "harder mods" (= heroic mode, or whatever else) neither in organization nor in perception. "You can not set the boss encounter to Hard mode from the user interface."

Still...