Mid-tier guild recruiters - what are you looking for?

[Marrilaife]

If the raid leaders don't have the capabilities to work out basic things like "whos getting hit most by buster cannon" or "are people dying due to not using healthstones/defensives" then it's worth evaluating whether you wish to continue raiding with them.

Well good luck finding your perfect unicorn raid leader then, after years and years of raiding across various levels of (semi-)casual / (semi-)hardcore I'd say half the raid leaders are people who enjoy being the center of attention and the sense of self-worth that comes from it, and have the attitude "my word is gospel even if I'm wrong I'm still right", and the other half are randoms that picked up the mantle because nobody else in the guild was willing to, they have good intentions but usually all they know to do is copy top guild's strat and present it to their guild, they don't understand the underlying intricacies or know how to analyze logs, they're just less lazy than all the other guild members that weren't willing to do even that.

And tbh since raid leading is an unpaid and stressful job, no wonder that most raid leaders take the spot for all the wrong reasons.

P.S. Managing recruitment is usually even worse, it often looks like soviet bureaucracy, you ask something, you're treated as a pest, you apply, officers shove that app between each other or leave it unanswered for ages because they cba. Only solution is to keep applying to multiple guilds and skip the ones with extra rude officers. And yes, you can be declined / left hanging with no answer from a lesser ranked guild while the better ranked one (within a reasonable bracket) would offer you a trial. Then you'll hear some excuse from the declining guild how they "forgot to update wowprogress" and they no longer need your class. I've also been in way too many guilds that will only start recruiting once they no longer can reliably field a full roster. Which is way too goddamn late, if you ask me. If you're looking for a guild, always check their logs if they're regularly, actively raiding and they aren't in some downfall state.

Anyway advice to the OP, just have as good logs on as many bosses as possible (work on upgrading your grey / green parses foremost rather than having that 1 boss in orange), and don't write your app half assed (1-liner answers, bad spelling, no punctuation, playing smartass etc.), except that, just keep trying, cast a wide net. And background check the guild, so you don't waste your time on sinking ships.

[Great Destiny Man]

Well good luck finding your perfect unicorn raid leader then

I don't find basic competency high aspirations for raid leaders.

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Yeah there's just a bit more to it than that

But you're the one arguing that's it's too hard for a raid leader to analyse the most basic of raid log info so has to resort to dps meters only...

[Xath]

I don't find basic competency high aspirations for raid leaders.

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But you're the one arguing that's it's too hard for a raid leader to analyse the most basic of raid log info so has to resort to dps meters only...

To actually analyze logs it's much more in depth than just looking at the basic as hell stuff you are talking about.

[Great Destiny Man]

To actually analyze logs it's much more in depth than just looking at the basic as hell stuff you are talking about.

Basic as hell checks in logs will still highlight your weak links. You can look in more analysis (such as when are people popping lust, if you're transitioning at bad points etc) but that's about overall raid performance, not individual.

But by all means do continue being facetious for the sake of appearing to win a faux argument.

[MrExcelion]

Like others have said, people with a positive mindset and willing to make the time commitment, consistency being especially important if they're a tank or healer. Don't need to nitpick performance too much.

[Zantera]

The hardest thing to find IMO is reliable people you can lean on to always show up and always do their best. A lot of people seem to get too caught up in the performance part thinking that epic or orange parses is all there is to it, but for every 10-15 people I talk to or recruit, I'm lucky if 1 of them ends up being that "solid raider" who shows up for pretty much all raids, someone you can always count on and someone who stays in the guild for a long time. There's a lot of guild hoppers who aren't interested in forming bonds or friendships and there's also people who have high attendance during their trial but then after a month or two they start having excuses for just about anything to miss a raid.

There's just not that many people who truly respect the other 19 people in the guild. "it's just a game" is a common excuse but in reality it's a hobby and when you join a mythic guild and you do activities 2 or 3 nights a week that requires a set amount of people, it becomes more than just a game. You not showing up can effectively ruin the whole night for the rest of the team. Yeah there's usually a bench but in my experience there's always a few people who can't make each night. I get that emergencies happen but in my experience a lot of people just don't care enough to try to make as many raids as they can.

So yeah, while I look at logs, performance and experience, the one thing that's the hardest to see that I value the most if someone being reliable and passionate about raiding.

[Marrilaife]

So yeah, while I look at logs, performance and experience, the one thing that's the hardest to see that I value the most if someone being reliable and passionate about raiding.

Yep, you can't really know if a person is a hopper. We had a guy apply, decent logs, reason for leaving old guild - guild disbanded (indeed it did), we take him onboard, he gets 1 Jaina kill for CE, never logs back in again. And had similar story with couple of recruits in Antorus as well.

There are also people who behave timid and polite for 2-3 weeks while trial lasts and the moment they get promoted start being all asshole. Suddenly late to raids, can't take any criticism, whines about being rotated / benched, etc. Sorry, being promoted from trial doesn't mean you're unkickable now.

[horbindr]

content draught atm, so just aim high with applying. you should be able to get into a guild thats killed or is close to kililng jaina without too many problems.

you can probably also get into a guild working on crucible of storms if you want, but honestly any guild with a real shot at kililng that is above mid tier if you ask me.

[Arainie]

This is from my own guilds perspective. We've been around more or less since TBC with a couple of breaks, and we focus more on stability than bleeding edge performance. With that said we've been world 700-800 in BfA which I'd say is mid-tier, not hardcore but not casual either.

Logs don't matter as much as you think. They matter, but they're not everything. As long as you can show that you're averaging around 50% we will not bin your application due to logs unless we find apparent flaws digging deeper in them (rotation, fire hugging etc). What we value much higher is your ability to show us that we can rely on you as a person. Tell us about your raiding history, your guild history and who you are as a person. "I'm a fun guy and I try my best" isn't nearly as enticing as telling us a bit about yourself and your life along with what you like to do in WoW. Always tell us what you think you'll bring to the guild and why you think we should recruit you.

If you can do the above, you've shown that you have a better attention span than most millenials, that you care enough to put more than 10 minutes in to a guild application and that you're not shit in-game. You've caught our attention, congrats, now we can have a proper chat. I guess my tl;dr is that if you're too lazy to write a decent application, you're probably going to be too lazy to read up on strats and maybe even too lazy to show up regularly for raids. Don't be that guy who can't be arsed, nobody wants that guy.

[Akka]

I'm scratching my head at the definition of "mid-tier" guild when everyone seems to speak of world ranked ones.
Is this the "if you're not the top 1 % you're shit" mentality at work ?

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The hardest thing to find IMO is reliable people you can lean on to always show up and always do their best.

One of the reason it's hard to find such people is that it's a very underappreciated skill, so after awhile these people are pissed off to see their efforts count for nothing and give up.

[Eazy]

Trialing people is the best that guild can go.

[justandulas]

Good luck OP!

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I'm scratching my head at the definition of "mid-tier" guild when everyone seems to speak of world ranked ones.
Is this the "if you're not the top 1 % you're shit" mentality at work ?

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One of the reason it's hard to find such people is that it's a very underappreciated skill, so after awhile these people are pissed off to see their efforts count for nothing and give up.

Same. I thought for sure this would be about a heroic guild with a few mythic kills

[Salty Maud]

Orange logs are more concerning than reassuring for the reasons Tumile explained already. When i scour thru your logs i try to find bosses where you'd be put to a role and see if you did your job properly. Otherwise i'd look for bosses where you could easily make individual mistakes (like Opulence) or bosses where you could get other people killed by your negligence (like Mekkatorque). I look for trends like selfish play, making other people handle mechanics for you, whether your damage is on the right target, your defensive usage and so on, i'm much more likely to advocate for a good team player than a high maintenance top parser.

Frankly mid-tier CE guilds are likely to trial pretty much anyone, but i'll still be looking at the same things when i evaluate your trial.

[Marrilaife]

Same. I thought for sure this would be about a heroic guild with a few mythic kills

Tbh if you aren't aiming to at least get CE (in normal raid tiers not abominations like crucible) by the end of the season, what's the point of being in mythic? Might as well do heroic and stop there. Never understood the appeal of "we are a mythic guild but only clear 50% of the instance after 6 months". Feels like unsatisfying waste of time, especially in the world where titanforge exists and m+ runners have more gear than raiders while sitting at 1/9 mythic pugged.

I can understand OP's situation, the most enticing jump to make is from a guild that cannot obtain CE to the one that can. We have 1,2k+ Jaina kills by now worldwide, these guilds that killed her recently are in no way hardcore, finding a decent one (without shit leadership and volatile roster) can get you best of both worlds, mythic experience and semi-casual no-nolife attitude.

[HuxNeva]

what I'm about to say will count for atleast 90% of WR 100-1000 guilds. They have no one who is either willing, or able to analyze Logs.

This so much. People complain about abuse of r.io score, then gush about 'logs' and don't have a single clue how to read a log for true performance indicators.

[Atharaxie]

Tbh if you aren't aiming to at least get CE (in normal raid tiers not abominations like crucible) by the end of the season, what's the point of being in mythic?

Mainly because G'huun/Jaina (as well as KillJaeden/Argus) are vastly harder and time consuming than Mythrax/Blocade/Avatar/Agramar. We raid 2 days a week, enjoy the balance of 20 man raid and the richer mechanics of mythic bosses compared to heroic bosses. Please don't piss on our dinner table.

[Marrilaife]

Mainly because G'huun/Jaina (as well as KillJaeden/Argus) are vastly harder and time consuming than Mythrax/Blocade/Avatar/Agramar. We raid 2 days a week, enjoy the balance of 20 man raid and the richer mechanics of mythic bosses compared to heroic bosses. Please don't piss on our dinner table.

Most end bosses are so nerfed by the time tier is about to be over that if you cleared 90% of the instance you could probably kill the last boss as well. Some are worse than others, for example KJ. Some are nerfed significantly more, for example Gul'dan. In my guild's reclears after last nerfs we wiped more on stupid stuff on Blockade, or even Grong, than on Jaina. Maybe because people don't respect the earlier bosses anymore but pay more attention on Jaina, dunno.

Stopping just before last boss and not attempting it even when it's nerfed is a complete blue balls to me. But each to their own I guess.

[Zantera]

One of the reason it's hard to find such people is that it's a very underappreciated skill, so after awhile these people are pissed off to see their efforts count for nothing and give up.

True. And also I've noticed that a lot of the "loyal" players tend to stay in guilds that maybe they shouldn't. It's happened for me too where I have stayed too long in a guild that I deep down know isn't up to the level I want and know I can play for, but I convince myself otherwise because there's some nice people there and I would feel bad for leaving.

I don't think personally that anyone should feel bad for leaving a guild if they have stayed there for months and you can tell things aren't gonna improve. It's about how you leave, and I think no matter what situation you're in, you can be the good guy who says "listen, I've made the tough decision to leave, but I will be available for the next few raids if i'm needed while you find a replacement". I think there's a big difference from that to the people who will switch guilds 3 times in the same tier.

[Soikona]

Hey Buddy, I'm a toxic prick so feel free to take what i say with a grain of salt, all up to you. My credentials - Raided top 20 world 5 raid tiers, raid lead top 50 world for half a tier, and top 200 world for 2 tiers in BFA. I have been supporting in recruitment in every guild I've ever been in, because i had an extensive network, and Unlike the guilds you are looking for, I actually know how to analyze warcraft logs for something else than your DPS parse. I have also raided in a WR 500 guild for Emerald Nightmare, 300 for ToV, and 1000 for ToS. Previous to this I swapped from world 20 to world 2000 in MoP to play with friends. Its safe to say I've been all over the spectrum.

Mid tier guild for me would be around WR 300-500, but what I'm about to say will count for atleast 90% of WR 100-1000 guilds. They have no one who is either willing, or able to analyze Logs. They look at ur kill logs only, or they only look at your DPS. your safest bet to be atractive for most mid tier guilds is to get high parses. Personally if i see someone with a bunch of rank 1's on early mythic kills, i assume they are fucking retarded and absolute trash at the game. so far Im 7/7 on that one, there has never been an exception in my anecdotal evidence. The reason is generally fairly simple, for someone to try and push their DPS to a rank 1 in a WR 100+ guild, it generally means that is the focus of that person, his aim is not to kill the boss, but to get a good log. I have had people intentionally wipe potential kill pulls because they were gonna get a bad parse. I also kicked those people immediately, it was obvious. so once you start moving up the ladder, generally most top 50 guilds will have some autistic cunt like me, who is efficient at looking through logs, and willing to spend his time on it. i often spent over 8 hours looking at potential recruits. theres a lot of data to go through, and when ur trying to stay competitive u dont have the luxury of just saying fuck it, hes not a complete retard, lets just try him out.

That being said, I have experience with a top 40 world guild looking at nothing but parses, 3 of them actually. as soon as we made some of our speed runs public of antorus, i instantly got messages because i ended up with rank 1's on almost every fight. i only had 1 public log, it was only a kill log, but that was enough.

my point is, ur DPS/HPS parses for ur respective role is the single most important thing if u want to be an atractive recruit for the majority of guilds, while it is not as important at WR >50 comparatively to proper consumeable usage, mechanics, consistency etc, if i see deaths that arent 1 shots and see a raider not having used healthpot and healthstone, even just once, i immediately assume they are absolute dogshit players who will blame everyone else for their mistakes, and therefore will never ever improve, at the game, or at anything else in life.

So go be a dps whore, get some logs, and its Ez clap. remember that literally 99% of the wow population have sub 50 IQ, its just one of those games that attract the dumbest people who can never think for themselves, and its not their fault that they fucked up if you didnt literally play the game for them and tell them what to do before hand. and even if u do, its a 50-50 wether the literal Bot at the other end registers ur voice command and executes it, or he accidentally gets his dick stuck in a ceiling fan. Remember, half of methods roster literally can't even do Mechatorque, so how do u think people 200 ranks below them are gonna play?

go get'em tiger.

Truer words have never been said! I used to do this when I played, but I only played at 500ish and it was always an argument with officers because they only looked at ranks. When they came around to my way of thinking we did climb the ladder a good bit but we all stopped because the raids were not worth the effort.

I have got rejected because I don’t pull high parses but I have seen guilds I am in take people in that stand in shit to maximise damage time!

[Delekii]

The easiest way to make sure your guild has that person that looks through logs and finds the relevant information is to learn to be that person. You'd be amazed how quickly people start valueing the kind of imformatio n you can get from logs when its handed to them on a platter. Even as a trial you can encourage this behavior, and even just showing what you're looking at it makes people take notice.

If you start talking about things like "where people took their damage from" or how many times you personally screwed up x or y mechanic, you'll often find people start asking how you know that.

The toxic guy earlier in the thread is right that very few people go looking for imformation that isnt put in front of their faces, but its often wrong to assume they wont start using it if you give it to them. There are definitely a subset of players who dont like it when you start introducing this information; some people find it confronting or almost accusatory, but most I have found quite receptive.