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  1. #421
    [emoji2357]

  2. #422
    I hope this doesn't go live, for the simple reason that it would be stupid to force mythic raiding for people wanting to push keys. And don't get me wrong, opposite is also a problem, people having to farm dungeons for trinkets for mythic raiding is not better.

    I don't care about the gear ilvl, but if you don't scale down mythic raiders when they enter mythic+ dungeons, you simply invalidate all the competitive aspect of it. There is already a +5 ilvl advantage to raid mythic, how much more do you need?

    There are better ways to fix this...scale the chest up to +15, and make the chest drop better loot if you time the key, for me that's always been the issue, getting 410 gear for failing a +10 is ridiculous, and honestly, if you don't time a +10 right now, you probably shouldn't even try, because they are way too easy, the scaling was off all season, maybe it's because Reaping is easier than Infested, but you get the idea.

    Plus, are you kidding me? Heroic warfronts will probably give the same rewards?

    I really hope one day we'll have a dungeon set and a raid set, problem will be solved.. same for pvp gear, keep it viable in other content, just not as efficient as it could be with passive like Reorigination Array.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Maudib View Post
    If you ask me, they shoudl remove gear entirely form M+

    Make titles, special mounts, transmogs, etc. be the rewards. If it is engaging gameplay aimed at competitive play... it should not reward gear
    It's a MMO, everybody play to progress their character, stop with your non sense.

    Mythic+ player get 1 shot at a random 410 loot every week, mythic raiders get that + 9 other sources of 415 gear.. I don't get why it's even a problem, sure at the END of the season the ilvl gap is around +5, but it takes a lot of time to even get there unless you are really lucky.

    If anything, the weekly chest should be shared between mythic raiders and mythic+ players.. kill 5 mythic bosses or do 5 +15 keys and you will be the 415 weekly loot. Same goes for heroic and +10 keys, and normal/+5 keys. This would stop forcing raiders to do a weekly +10, and probably make the effort similar.. pretty sure it takes a similar amount of time to get to do 5 +15 keys than it takes to kill the first 5 bosses of a raid in mythic... obviously it gets easier after a few months.

    I don't know why it's been limited to ONE key, this just create this bane of the existence that is mythic+ carries.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by bloodykiller86 View Post
    one those arent the final numbers and theyre just PTR. 2 classic has ONLY end game raids and when youre done with content its useless lol
    Still 2 years worth of entertainment.

  3. #423
    Dreadlord Frostyfire14's Avatar
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    In Legion, a +15 was required in the middle of the expansion wasn't it? Aren't we there with BFA?
    Last edited by Frostyfire14; 2019-06-12 at 12:26 AM.

  4. #424
    Quote Originally Posted by Frostyfire14 View Post
    In Legion, a +15 was required in the middle of the expansion wasn't it? Aren't we there with BFA?
    They didn't increase the difficulty in Legion, that's why it went to +15

  5. #425
    Quote Originally Posted by Spotnick View Post
    I hope this doesn't go live, for the simple reason that it would be stupid to force mythic raiding for people wanting to push keys. And don't get me wrong, opposite is also a problem, people having to farm dungeons for trinkets for mythic raiding is not better.

    I don't care about the gear ilvl, but if you don't scale down mythic raiders when they enter mythic+ dungeons, you simply invalidate all the competitive aspect of it. There is already a +5 ilvl advantage to raid mythic, how much more do you need?

    There are better ways to fix this...scale the chest up to +15, and make the chest drop better loot if you time the key, for me that's always been the issue, getting 410 gear for failing a +10 is ridiculous, and honestly, if you don't time a +10 right now, you probably shouldn't even try, because they are way too easy, the scaling was off all season, maybe it's because Reaping is easier than Infested, but you get the idea.

    Plus, are you kidding me? Heroic warfronts will probably give the same rewards?

    I really hope one day we'll have a dungeon set and a raid set, problem will be solved.. same for pvp gear, keep it viable in other content, just not as efficient as it could be with passive like Reorigination Array.

    - - - Updated - - -



    It's a MMO, everybody play to progress their character, stop with your non sense.

    Mythic+ player get 1 shot at a random 410 loot every week, mythic raiders get that + 9 other sources of 415 gear.. I don't get why it's even a problem, sure at the END of the season the ilvl gap is around +5, but it takes a lot of time to even get there unless you are really lucky.

    If anything, the weekly chest should be shared between mythic raiders and mythic+ players.. kill 5 mythic bosses or do 5 +15 keys and you will be the 415 weekly loot. Same goes for heroic and +10 keys, and normal/+5 keys. This would stop forcing raiders to do a weekly +10, and probably make the effort similar.. pretty sure it takes a similar amount of time to get to do 5 +15 keys than it takes to kill the first 5 bosses of a raid in mythic... obviously it gets easier after a few months.

    I don't know why it's been limited to ONE key, this just create this bane of the existence that is mythic+ carries.

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    Still 2 years worth of entertainment.
    not even close lol people will clear shit much faster than they did in vanilla

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maudib View Post
    If you ask me, they shoudl remove gear entirely form M+

    Make titles, special mounts, transmogs, etc. be the rewards. If it is engaging gameplay aimed at competitive play... it should not reward gear
    Maudib..........that name sounds familiar. Just gonna say kodi and thats it lol if you know, you know haha

  6. #426
    Dreadlord Frostyfire14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spotnick View Post
    They didn't increase the difficulty in Legion, that's why it went to +15
    Ah. Thanks for clarifying.

  7. #427
    Quote Originally Posted by Spotnick View Post
    They didn't increase the difficulty in Legion, that's why it went to +15
    I think there's a legitimate case for increasing the scaling all the way to +15 with current power creep

  8. #428
    I'm sorry for all the 410 people spamming M10 without having seen Myth BoD but M+ need nerfs and then adjustments.


    I know that is nice having the same gear lvl that Mythic raiders have but still it is worthless for you since you do the Tortollan WQ as end content or pet dungeons or farming xmog from previous raids.

    M10 welfare gear loop needs to be destroyed and give 15-20 brackets the Mythic Gear quality


    Then you can plan to give extra rewards, or in this case the real rewards for the brackets 10-15-20.



    Unfortunately WF and TF makes this really hard to fix because you could have just done a WoD scaling to have players the real challenge.

    Hence removing the WF and TF from M+ is the only way to proper fix it and make Raiding still the main dish.
    Last edited by Porcodio; 2019-06-12 at 06:56 AM.

  9. #429
    Quote Originally Posted by Porcodio View Post
    I'm sorry for all the 410 people spamming M10 without having seen Myth BoD but M+ need nerfs and then adjustments.


    I know that is nice having the same gear lvl that Mythic raiders have but still it is worthless for you since you do the Tortollan WQ as end content or pet dungeons or farming xmog from previous raids.

    M10 welfare gear loop needs to be destroyed and give 15-20 brackets the Mythic Gear quality


    Then you can plan to give extra rewards, or in this case the real rewards for the brackets 10-15-20.



    Unfortunately WF and TF makes this really hard to fix because you could have just done a WoD scaling to have players the real challenge.

    Hence removing the WF and TF from M+ is the only way to proper fix it and make Raiding still the main dish.
    WF and TF should be deleted PERIOD. DELETED. Raid azerite gear should provide a BUFF to the raid environment, make m+ azerite gear semi-worthless for raiding but still strong for m+, problem fixed

  10. #430
    Titan Grimbold21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Porcodio View Post
    I know that is nice having the same gear lvl that Mythic raiders have but still it is worthless for you since you do the Tortollan WQ as end content or pet dungeons or farming xmog from previous raids.
    .
    What are you talking about? M+ is, at the same time, the content and end game content for some players. I do nothing but M+, other than WF for a chance at gear piece to improve my chances of getting into higher keys.

    I am not, however, contesting your argument that M+ should award the same quality of gear as Mythic raiding.

  11. #431
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimbold21 View Post
    What are you talking about? M+ is, at the same time, the content and end game content for some players. I do nothing but M+, other than WF for a chance at gear piece to improve my chances of getting into higher keys.

    I am not, however, contesting your argument that M+ should award the same quality of gear as Mythic raiding.
    But M+ isn't really an end game content compared to Raids.

    How can be doing the same dungeons for 12 months, after mastering the route to do a perfect timer, an end game content?

    How can be learning which pack to skip after 5 keys be on the same spot as 400 wipes at Jaina or Mekkatorque?

    WF for doing Higher Keys is the Problem and the Consequence at the same time because people tend to ask higher item lvl thinking that more gear = more skill than but WF and TF hide the skill or the non skill behind inflating item lvl.


    I could get M+ as the system you described if there wasn't WF.

    If somebody can't raid but want some challengin content M+ as Greater Rift it is fine but when the gear is tied to the difficulty without any " procs "

    Because then if you go from +10 to +15 or +20 without having to TF an item from +10 is in my opinion better especially if you make the Mythic Gear quality only from higher keys, you will rely on your skill more than gear.

  12. #432
    Quote Originally Posted by Th3Scourge View Post
    I think there's a legitimate case for increasing the scaling all the way to +15 with current power creep
    currently on the ptr a 10 is about the same difficulty somewhere between a 15 and 17. i think they may be compensating for the power creep.

  13. #433
    Quote Originally Posted by Porcodio View Post
    How can be doing the same dungeons for 12 months, after mastering the route to do a perfect timer, an end game content?

    How can be learning which pack to skip after 5 keys be on the same spot as 400 wipes at Jaina or Mekkatorque?
    Don't you get mythic level gear from doing 15 year old battle grounds?

  14. #434
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    I do M+ way more than I raid but I like this change. I agree the best loot in the game should not drop from a M+. Maybe if it was a 15 but, not a 10. This will give me reason again to raid hardcore. I can't wait to join a raid with all my old friends again.

  15. #435
    Quote Originally Posted by Porcodio View Post
    But M+ isn't really an end game content compared to Raids.

    How can be doing the same dungeons for 12 months, after mastering the route to do a perfect timer, an end game content?
    You do it at the end of the game.

    Not suggesting that it is on par, or should be, with raiding, I think a full mythic raider should have a noticeably higher ilvl over someone who just does m+.

    However it is still end game content.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gelannerai View Post


    Remember, legally no one sane takes Tucker Carlson seriously.

  16. #436
    If this is indeed intended which I hope it isn't as there hasn't been official verification.

    If it is how ever it will be the biggest garbage change ever.

    I agree with the concept that Mythic raiding gear should be the -ONLY- highest item level available in-game. Mythic+ gear even at 10 and weekly cache was never as high as Mythic raiding gear. The end dungeon loot was only on par with heroic, and the cache will still 5 item levels below Mythic raiding.

    With that said, in today's modern World of Warcraft even if they nerf M+ gear, people can still obtain 430+ from a world boss. Heck, doing simple FARMABLE world content in 8.2 will yield you with 425 gear eventually. World content WILL YIELD 425, which left how it is currently now, will even be higher than M+ 10 gear. What kind of joke is this? If confirmed as intended, this is another change Blizzard has just decided to crap out instead of think it through and to see other avenues in the game that also would need addressed if we want to go down the road of raiding being the best viable option for gearing.

    If we go on the subject that Mythic raiding should offer the highest item level only, then sure, but at least they should be consistent and PvP rewards should be nerfed as well.

    Gladiator gear should be around the same as the highest Mythic+ rewards. Caches should be the same.

    PvP content isn't even expierencing end-game raiding, either. It does not require to be the same as Mythic raid item level.

    In fact, let's have world content yielding the HIGHEST best alternative to raiding! Nice move.

    PS: Game's a joke anyway, power from gear in PvP even in the world means nothing now. My damage VS a 130k player is like I'm hitting a brick wall even though I have more than 250k health points. I'm guessing in 8.2 mobs and everything else also scale up to further detach from your character's progression and power.
    Last edited by Tymaar; 2019-06-12 at 04:16 PM.

  17. #437
    Mechagnome Donatello Trumpi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thedoom View Post
    youtube.com/watch?v=SDsZKDwL1ho




    Thanks to all these selfish, arrogant raiders who kept complaining to blizzard that Mythic+ dropped good gear.

    This game is soo garbage now, if you don't run raids then there is 0 content left. It's time to unsub until Classic WoW.

    On the one hand I can understand if mythic+ only players are outraged over this change,
    on the other hand I kinda agree with it.


    Mythic+ below 15+ are vastly easier gameplay wise as well as logistic wise than a heroic raid (especially in the first month or two of a new raid), but +10 giving equal loot than heroic raiding makes the whole raiding ordeal absurd.

    Also you can easily gear multiple alts to mythic raid gear ilvl currently without setting foot in one due to the weekly chests, which doesnt incentivise many to even bother with mythic raiding let alone feel the need to do hc raids sans a few bis trinket bosses with their alts.


    Overall, as bitter of a pill this is for some to swallow, this would be a big net positive for the raiding community with the benefit of hurting m+ sellers and toxic keyspammers too.

  18. #438
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodykiller86 View Post
    not even close lol people will clear shit much faster than they did in vanilla
    Would be pretty hard since it'll be time gated with a fixed schedule.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Porcodio View Post
    I'm sorry for all the 410 people spamming M10 without having seen Myth BoD but M+ need nerfs and then adjustments.


    I know that is nice having the same gear lvl that Mythic raiders have but still it is worthless for you since you do the Tortollan WQ as end content or pet dungeons or farming xmog from previous raids.

    M10 welfare gear loop needs to be destroyed and give 15-20 brackets the Mythic Gear quality


    Then you can plan to give extra rewards, or in this case the real rewards for the brackets 10-15-20.



    Unfortunately WF and TF makes this really hard to fix because you could have just done a WoD scaling to have players the real challenge.

    Hence removing the WF and TF from M+ is the only way to proper fix it and make Raiding still the main dish.
    We need the gear to push up to +20, not do stupid world quests, and I don't want to have to waste my time in mythic raiding in order to be able to do.

    But I totally agree there is absolutely zero purpose to mythic raiding anymore.. that's why I stopped and focus on mythic+ and heroic raiding instead.. much more enjoyable.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Porcodio View Post
    How can be learning which pack to skip after 5 keys be on the same spot as 400 wipes at Jaina or Mekkatorque?
    Because wiping 400 times on Jaina or Mekkatorque following Method's video guide is different?

    There is a difficulty cap on mythic raiding, not on mythic+...

  19. #439
    Quote Originally Posted by bullseyed View Post
    Yeah, the 425 ring I got the other day doesn't exist and the 415 socketed boots from last night don't exist either.
    That's not Mythic gear, that is 410 gear that Warforged/Titanforged. You're not getting 410 gear from Mythic raiding.

  20. #440
    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    Don't you get mythic level gear from doing 15 year old battle grounds?
    Even if you play on Glad rating, the base ilvl of random drops is 405.

    PvP, as far as gearing is concerned, is nothing but a side activity for the one item from the weekly chest, outside of that, the droprate of items is far too low and far too random (as almost any stat combination is possible for PvP items).

    I cannot imagine how anyone could seriously gear themselves currently solely via PvP, the droprate is piss poor and your sole chance for Azerite is the weekly chest or Upgrade token + Conquest Azerite piece.

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