1. #10761
    I am Murloc! FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    So of course if they add High elves they will simply copypaste their current NPC models amirite?
    This is what those against High Elves hope, because they would hate to see the set precedent be followed. So they reduce "you mean a blood elf with blue eyes".

    We could say the same with the Nightborne. "So you mean skinny Night Elves"? Still got added. Clearing sharing the same purple skin tone and silvery eyes just as Night Elves isn't enough to rule them out.

  2. #10762
    Stood in the Fire eScar95's Avatar
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    Who wants to play as a weak Alliance elf anyways? Rather play a chad Horde elf.
    Personality: INTJ



    “Greatness, at any cost.”

  3. #10763
    Bloodsail Admiral Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pestilent Soul View Post
    Who wants to play as a weak Alliance elf anyways? Rather play a chad Horde elf.
    Don't you wish your girlfriend was

    hot

    like

    me?

    Ah... I could really use a scrunchie... Yeah you heard me.

  4. #10764
    Stood in the Fire eScar95's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    Don't you wish your girlfriend was

    hot

    like

    me?

    Ah... I could really use a scrunchie... Yeah you heard me.
    Personality: INTJ



    “Greatness, at any cost.”

  5. #10765
    Brewmaster elbleuet's Avatar
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    Nightborne models are ugly, and blood elves are utterly boring.

    But I agree. Night elves and void elves' current situation pale in comparison to that of the Horde elves.
    Both race are homeless, one endured a genocide, the other is a minority among the minority.

    That's precisely why we need a Silvermoon warfront to restore the balance.
    Last edited by elbleuet; 2019-06-12 at 11:30 AM.
    "If you want to play alongside High and Void elves, the Alliance is waiting for you"

  6. #10766
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
    Nightborne models are ugly, and blood elves are utterly boring.

    But I agree. Night elves and void elves' current situation pale in comparison to that of the Horde elves.
    Both race are homeless, one endured a genocide, the other is a minority among the minority.

    That's precisely why we need a Silvermoon warfront to restore the balance.
    Not everything is about the Elves you know.

    The Night Elves lost their city. The balance was restored with the destruction of Undercity leaving three Horde capitals and three Alliance capitals. Before you counter with Suramar, that is a capital in an abstract sense only as the city is still stuck in the Legion timeframe under Elisande with only a small area being friendly to Horde players.

    That small area is the equivalent of the Void Elves' Tel'rogus. Again, gameplay balance is restored.

    If you are on about story balance, and that somehow the fact that the Horde has two elven cities to the Alliance's zero is unfair, well there is no such thing as that kind of story balance.

    https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...ion-favoritism

    Blizzard isn't going to hand over a Horde capital to the Alliance just because you feel aggrieved about how the storyline has turned out so far.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Factually wrong. That's an opinion, wich you can have of course. Void Elves are former Blood Elves, wich again are High Elves. A High Elf from the Alliance is neither. This is a fact.
    Blizzard has defined Void Elves as 'another flavour of High Elf' and 'something like a Blood Elf'.

    As they have also defined Blood Elves as High Elves, stating Void Elves are 'another flavour' means there is a level of difference. This level of difference is expressed in their connection to the Void.

    As they have defined Void Elves as 'like a Blood Elf', that phrasing indicates similarity and not being identical. As they are not identical, they cannot be Blood Elves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Where does it say/show that Void Elves also are former Alliance High Elves btw?

    Void Elves are the Alliance playable flavor of High Elves(Blood Elves)at this point. You might go with your fantasy, but that doesn't make it true.
    https://www.polygon.com/2019/1/21/18...user-interview

    Moorgard was specifically asked where Void Elf numbers come from as it has been pointed out that the numbers we see in game do not tally with the idea that a single small group of Blood Elf researchers was corrupted.

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    “They start out as a small group,” Danuser continues. “But it’s natural as other elves have found out about them — elves who are interested in new sources of magic, power, or opportunities — would see if they could undergo a similar process. They’re not ... recruiting, necessarily, but they’re open to those who show a similar interest.

    Steve Danuser- 'Moorgard' -Senior Narrative Designer

    1.) The Senior Narrative Designer above states that new recruits are seeking out the Void Elves to see if they can undergo 'a similar process'. That 'similar process' does not mean wielding void energies while remaining the same, it clearly means becoming a Void Elf as the initial question posed to Moorgard was

    'There’s just one question: If they come from a small group of Silvermoon Exiles, how are they an Allied Race? Where do the numbers come from?'

    The process refers to the transformation into a Void Elf. It can mean nothing else in this context.

    2.) The numbers of Void Elves in game does not match them being a tiny group of researchers. As a Horde player I have slaughtered hundreds of them across the invasions and during the suicide mission scenario prior to the opening of the Battle of Dazar'alor. There are also rogues, warriors, hunters and monks among the Void Elf forces. The initial scenario strongly suggested the vast majority of Blood Elves participating were magic users of some sort, likely Mages.

    3.) Void Elves have demonstrated the ability to turn other beings into void based aberrations by blasting them with void energy during the Alliance incursion into Zuldazar, specifically raptors in a world quest. This is similar to what happened to the first Void Elves in the initial transformation.

    All evidence supports the idea that Void Elves can convert other Elves into Void Elves and that some Alliance High Elves are being converted.
    There are also Alliance High Elves accompanying Void Elves in Stormwind, and High Elven Wayfarers present in Tel'rogus learning to use the void. The desire to pretend Void Elves cannot convert other Elves into Void Elves is an attempt to keep the Alliance High Elf grievance going, as not only is it argued they aren't the exact elves desired but the inability to procreate means they are effectively doomed to extinction, and a group doomed to extinction can be regarded as a temporary aberration that does not 'fill the high elf niche' on the Alliance.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    [B]Just as a Void Elf cannot unbecome back to a Blood Elf, we have yet to see a Blood Elf go back to being a High Elf. It's a one way trip as far as evidenced by the game. .
    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Quel%27Lithien_Lodge

    The Wowpedia summary is pretty succinct on this lodge.

    "The lodge fell on hard times following the Scourge invasion of Quel'Thalas. It was here that the banished rangers under Renthar Hawkspear took up residence after Grand Magister Rommath's return from Outland; Renthar and his group had dissented against Rommath's teachings on moral grounds. To avoid the nation becoming divided on the issue, as the teachings had been an essential boon to the elves, Lor'themar, now Quel'Thalas' regent, exiled the group south."

    I want you to read that carefully. These Elves were banished to Quel'lithien AFTER Grand Magister Rommath returned from Outland with Illidan's teachings.

    Yet when were the High Elves renamed as Blood Elves? AFTER Kael'thas returned to Quel'thalas from Dalaran. So, Kael'thas gathered the survivors, renamed them Blood Elves and then headed south with an army to assist Garithos. Lor'themar Theron was left in charge of the Blood Elves.

    The rangers who took up residence at Quel'lithien were only banished when they objected to Rommath's teachings. Rommath did not return until after the following had happened.

    1.)Kael served with Garithos and the Alliance for a period of time.
    2.) Kael was betrayed by Garithos.
    3.) Kael and the Blood Elves escaped to Outland with the Naga
    4.) Kael and the Blood Elves swore to serve Illidan.
    5.) Kael and the Blood Elves accompanied Illidan to Icecrown.
    6.) Kael and the Blood Elves fled back to Outland.
    7.) Kael sent Rommath back to Silvermoon with Illidan's teachings.
    8.) Lor'themar exiled those who refused to follow the new teachings on the grounds of national unity.

    So the simplest explanation for the rangers of Quel'lithien is that they did in fact call themselves Blood Elves for a time, but Illidan's teachings disgusted them so much and they found their exile so embittering that once they were cast out they embraced the name to show their rejection of what they felt their people had become.

    But for a time, yes, they would have been Blood Elves. And then they demonstrated just how profound a change that was by easily reverting to High Elf, proving at the end of the day it's just an adjective.

    Void Elves will have a much harder time undoing their skin tone changes, tentacle growths and connection to the void let me assure you.

  7. #10767
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Blizzard has defined Void Elves as 'another flavour of High Elf' and 'something like a Blood Elf'.

    As they have also defined Blood Elves as High Elves, stating Void Elves are 'another flavour' means there is a level of difference. This level of difference is expressed in their connection to the Void.

    As they have defined Void Elves as 'like a Blood Elf', that phrasing indicates similarity and not being identical. As they are not identical, they cannot be Blood Elves.
    But they still are Blood Elves who delved into void magic so there is no point saying they are not like you try to here.

    https://www.polygon.com/2019/1/21/18...user-interview

    Moorgard was specifically asked where Void Elf numbers come from as it has been pointed out that the numbers we see in game do not tally with the idea that a single small group of Blood Elf researchers was corrupted.

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    “They start out as a small group,” Danuser continues. “But it’s natural as other elves have found out about them — elves who are interested in new sources of magic, power, or opportunities — would see if they could undergo a similar process. They’re not ... recruiting, necessarily, but they’re open to those who show a similar interest.

    Steve Danuser- 'Moorgard' -Senior Narrative Designer

    1.) The Senior Narrative Designer above states that new recruits are seeking out the Void Elves to see if they can undergo 'a similar process'. That 'similar process' does not mean wielding void energies while remaining the same, it clearly means becoming a Void Elf as the initial question posed to Moorgard was

    'There’s just one question: If they come from a small group of Silvermoon Exiles, how are they an Allied Race? Where do the numbers come from?'

    The process refers to the transformation into a Void Elf. It can mean nothing else in this context.

    2.) The numbers of Void Elves in game does not match them being a tiny group of researchers. As a Horde player I have slaughtered hundreds of them across the invasions and during the suicide mission scenario prior to the opening of the Battle of Dazar'alor. There are also rogues, warriors, hunters and monks among the Void Elf forces. The initial scenario strongly suggested the vast majority of Blood Elves participating were magic users of some sort, likely Mages.

    3.) Void Elves have demonstrated the ability to turn other beings into void based aberrations by blasting them with void energy during the Alliance incursion into Zuldazar, specifically raptors in a world quest. This is similar to what happened to the first Void Elves in the initial transformation.

    All evidence supports the idea that Void Elves can convert other Elves into Void Elves and that some Alliance High Elves are being converted.
    There are also Alliance High Elves accompanying Void Elves in Stormwind, and High Elven Wayfarers present in Tel'rogus learning to use the void. The desire to pretend Void Elves cannot convert other Elves into Void Elves is an attempt to keep the Alliance High Elf grievance going, as not only is it argued they aren't the exact elves desired but the inability to procreate means they are effectively doomed to extinction, and a group doomed to extinction can be regarded as a temporary aberration that does not 'fill the high elf niche' on the Alliance.
    But this is all speculation as of now. There isn't any lore that says they have recruited Alliance High Elves into Void Elves. Yet. So it's all pure speculation. Seeing how you make the point that canon lore is the rule here, what you write is just speculation into the idea. And you as horde player killing the same Void Elves in the same World Quest everytime that World Quest is up doesn't support that there is lots of Void Elves. Same could be said about Alliance High Elves being everywhere but you always bring the point that they are not then. This is a good example of that you can't have the cake and eat it to. It's one way or the other.

  8. #10768
    Highelf = Blood Elf. Thread discontinued.

  9. #10769
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    But they still are Blood Elves who delved into void magic so there is no point saying they are not like you try to here.
    They are transformed. To be transformed means you change from one thing into another. The Nightborne are no longer Night Elves, they were transformed by the power of the Nightwell. The Lightforged Draenei are no longer Draenei, they were transformed by the power of the light. Turalyon is no longer a Human, he is a lightforged Human, transformed by the power of the Light. Void Elves are no longer Blood/High Elves, they are transformed by the power of the void.


    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    But this is all speculation as of now. There isn't any lore that says they have recruited Alliance High Elves into Void Elves. Yet. So it's all pure speculation. Seeing how you make the point that canon lore is the rule here, what you write is just speculation into the idea. And you as horde player killing the same Void Elves in the same World Quest everytime that World Quest is up doesn't support that there is lots of Void Elves. Same could be said about Alliance High Elves being everywhere but you always bring the point that they are not then. This is a good example of that you can't have the cake and eat it to. It's one way or the other.
    It is hard to argue it is speculation when the senior narrative designer states that Void Elves can reproduce and we have High Elven wayfarers in Tel'rogus being very clear about their intentions regarding the void. The only logical interpretation of what you are saying is that while Void Elves can reproduce (as Moorgard confirms), and while Alliance High Elves are clearly expressing a very strong interest in learning to use the void (as shown in game), that for some reason Alliance High Elves don't make that final leap. That does not make sense, and is a suggestion it seems motivated by a desire to pretend Alliance High Elves cannot become Void Elves when there is clearly nothing stopping them.

    As for the comparison between the numbers of Void Elves and Alliance High Elves as appearing in game, my stance with that is as follows. As Blizzard has repeatedly stated that Alliance High Elves are extremely low in numbers, then the repeated appearance of Alliance High Elf NPCs is easiest to explain as the same group of Elves showing up again and again. As the only time Alliance High Elves do appear in anything like decent numbers is when Dalaran and the Silver Covenant is involved, it is likely that the Alliance High Elves we see from time to time are members of the Silver Covenant in a new front.

    Note that I am not saying Void Elves are numerous either. I am saying that their numbers as depicted in game do not match the idea that only a small group of researchers were converted and that those are the only Void Elves ever. Clearly, some of the times we encounter Void Elves were are likely encountering the same group of Elves again we may have previously as they deploy to a new front. Void Elves are a small, crack squad and obviously do not have an equivalent population to many of the other races. But crucially, Void Elves can recruit new Void Elves from the Blood Elf and Alliance High Elf populations. Alliance High Elves do not seem to be able to lure many Blood Elves, as none have ever been depicted in game beyond the Quel'lithien rangers (who are currently all dead). Anyone who was likely to embrace exile in Dalaran rather than serve the Horde or the Blood Elves likely left years ago.

  10. #10770
    Brewmaster elbleuet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Not everything is about the Elves you know.

    The Night Elves lost their city. The balance was restored with the destruction of Undercity leaving three Horde capitals and three Alliance capitals. Before you counter with Suramar, that is a capital in an abstract sense only as the city is still stuck in the Legion timeframe under Elisande with only a small area being friendly to Horde players.

    That small area is the equivalent of the Void Elves' Tel'rogus. Again, gameplay balance is restored.

    If you are on about story balance, and that somehow the fact that the Horde has two elven cities to the Alliance's zero is unfair, well there is no such thing as that kind of story balance.

    https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...ion-favoritism

    Blizzard isn't going to hand over a Horde capital to the Alliance just because you feel aggrieved about how the storyline has turned out so far.
    I was talking about Warcraft Lore. I particulary don't care about gameplay. And Telogrus isn't a capital. Comparing it with the wonders of Suramar is purely nonsense. But this is you Obelisk Kai.

    Anyway, Silvermoon is already doomed, one way or another. Wether it is by the Sunwell being corrupted and imploding, or the Alliance conquering Silvermoon.
    That Nightborne quest dealing with the Sunwell isn't for nothing for sure.
    "If you want to play alongside High and Void elves, the Alliance is waiting for you"

  11. #10771
    Bloodsail Admiral Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pestilent Soul View Post
    Oh... OH!

    i see what you did there, pal. Agree 100%

  12. #10772
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
    That Nightborne quest dealing with the Sunwell isn't for nothing for sure.
    It was used as the basis for the Void Elf scenario. That was it. Anything beyond that really is speculation.

  13. #10773
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    They are transformed. To be transformed means you change from one thing into another. The Nightborne are no longer Night Elves, they were transformed by the power of the Nightwell. The Lightforged Draenei are no longer Draenei, they were transformed by the power of the light. Turalyon is no longer a Human, he is a lightforged Human, transformed by the power of the Light. Void Elves are no longer Blood/High Elves, they are transformed by the power of the void.
    But they are still High Elves(Blood Elves). There is nothing you can say that change that fact. The Lightforged Draeneir and Nightborne used 1000s of years to evolve into what they are now. The Void Elves did this very recently, and what I write next is speculation as well, but I am pretty sure some of the Void Elves see themselves as Blood Elves still.

    It is hard to argue it is speculation when the senior narrative designer states that Void Elves can reproduce and we have High Elven wayfarers in Tel'rogus being very clear about their intentions regarding the void. The only logical interpretation of what you are saying is that while Void Elves can reproduce (as Moorgard confirms), and while Alliance High Elves are clearly expressing a very strong interest in learning to use the void (as shown in game), that for some reason Alliance High Elves don't make that final leap. That does not make sense, and is a suggestion it seems motivated by a desire to pretend Alliance High Elves cannot become Void Elves when there is clearly nothing stopping them.

    As for the comparison between the numbers of Void Elves and Alliance High Elves as appearing in game, my stance with that is as follows. As Blizzard has repeatedly stated that Alliance High Elves are extremely low in numbers, then the repeated appearance of Alliance High Elf NPCs is easiest to explain as the same group of Elves showing up again and again. As the only time Alliance High Elves do appear in anything like decent numbers is when Dalaran and the Silver Covenant is involved, it is likely that the Alliance High Elves we see from time to time are members of the Silver Covenant in a new front.

    Note that I am not saying Void Elves are numerous either. I am saying that their numbers as depicted in game do not match the idea that only a small group of researchers were converted and that those are the only Void Elves ever. Clearly, some of the times we encounter Void Elves were are likely encountering the same group of Elves again we may have previously as they deploy to a new front. Void Elves are a small, crack squad and obviously do not have an equivalent population to many of the other races. But crucially, Void Elves can recruit new Void Elves from the Blood Elf and Alliance High Elf populations. Alliance High Elves do not seem to be able to lure many Blood Elves, as none have ever been depicted in game beyond the Quel'lithien rangers (who are currently all dead). Anyone who was likely to embrace exile in Dalaran rather than serve the Horde or the Blood Elves likely left years ago.
    Bolded part is a very weird statement seeing as most people here want the Alliance High Elves to be different than the Blood Elves. And personally I like Void Elves more than regular High Elves, so it's not a stick towards me neither. I think it's more the other way around, that someone doesn't want Alliance High Elves to be a subject as Allied Race anymore so they see suggestions ingame that all the Alliance High Elves will be Void Elves as truth.

  14. #10774
    Brewmaster elbleuet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    It was used as the basis for the Void Elf scenario. That was it. Anything beyond that really is speculation.
    That can hardly be considered as a basis since in the Alliance scenario we absolutely don't know what happened in the Sunwell. And the Void elves were already exiled when the Horde scenario occurs. But again, it shows to Horde players that the Sunwell is extremely vulnerable to void energies. Why bother showing this in a Nightborne quest ? That's interesting.

    But yea, this is just speculation from me, and I hope it comes true. But I'm pretty confident on it.
    "If you want to play alongside High and Void elves, the Alliance is waiting for you"

  15. #10775
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    But they are still High Elves(Blood Elves). There is nothing you can say that change that fact. The Lightforged Draeneir and Nightborne used 1000s of years to evolve into what they are now. The Void Elves did this very recently, and what I write next is speculation as well, but I am pretty sure some of the Void Elves see themselves as Blood Elves still.
    Nightborne yes, Lightforged Draenei no.

    In the LFD recruitment scenario, you get paired up with a draenei (T'Paartos) looking to perform the trials in order to become Lightforged. The transformatoin from Draenei into Lightforged Draenei is pretty much instantaneous just like it was with Void Elves.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eER5-twxIqQ

  16. #10776
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Nightborne yes, Lightforged Draenei no.

    In the LFD recruitment scenario, you get paired up with a draenei (T'Paartos) looking to perform the trials in order to become Lightforged. The transformatoin from Draenei into Lightforged Draenei is pretty much instantaneous just like it was with Void Elves.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eER5-twxIqQ
    Allright, true(I got one LF Draenei), but the Lightforged Draenei has been here for thousands of years, they were regular Draeneis before. Void Elves happened recently. In any case, Lightforged Draeneis are still Draenei in the sense of the race Draenei. I mean Draenei-members and LF Draeneis-members most likely got family(relatives perhaps) together, same for Void Elves who most likely still got family in Silvermoon. The term "race" doesn't really fit everywhere does it. That's the gist really.

    A Void Elf is still High Elven, nothing can change that.
    Last edited by Doffen; 2019-06-12 at 02:49 PM.

  17. #10777
    I am Murloc! FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Quel%27Lithien_Lodge

    The Wowpedia summary is pretty succinct on this lodge.

    "The lodge fell on hard times following the Scourge invasion of Quel'Thalas. It was here that the banished rangers under Renthar Hawkspear took up residence after Grand Magister Rommath's return from Outland; Renthar and his group had dissented against Rommath's teachings on moral grounds. To avoid the nation becoming divided on the issue, as the teachings had been an essential boon to the elves, Lor'themar, now Quel'Thalas' regent, exiled the group south."

    I want you to read that carefully. These Elves were banished to Quel'lithien AFTER Grand Magister Rommath returned from Outland with Illidan's teachings.

    Yet when were the High Elves renamed as Blood Elves? AFTER Kael'thas returned to Quel'thalas from Dalaran. So, Kael'thas gathered the survivors, renamed them Blood Elves and then headed south with an army to assist Garithos. Lor'themar Theron was left in charge of the Blood Elves.

    The rangers who took up residence at Quel'lithien were only banished when they objected to Rommath's teachings. Rommath did not return until after the following had happened.

    1.)Kael served with Garithos and the Alliance for a period of time.
    2.) Kael was betrayed by Garithos.
    3.) Kael and the Blood Elves escaped to Outland with the Naga
    4.) Kael and the Blood Elves swore to serve Illidan.
    5.) Kael and the Blood Elves accompanied Illidan to Icecrown.
    6.) Kael and the Blood Elves fled back to Outland.
    7.) Kael sent Rommath back to Silvermoon with Illidan's teachings.
    8.) Lor'themar exiled those who refused to follow the new teachings on the grounds of national unity.

    So the simplest explanation for the rangers of Quel'lithien is that they did in fact call themselves Blood Elves for a time, but Illidan's teachings disgusted them so much and they found their exile so embittering that once they were cast out they embraced the name to show their rejection of what they felt their people had become.

    But for a time, yes, they would have been Blood Elves. And then they demonstrated just how profound a change that was by easily reverting to High Elf, proving at the end of the day it's just an adjective.

    Void Elves will have a much harder time undoing their skin tone changes, tentacle growths and connection to the void let me assure you.
    Let's read more carefully what's said about that lodge on that wowpedia page as well.

    "Although the lodge's inhabitants were friendly to Alliance players until Cataclysm, there is nothing to suggest they were an official part of it. It is strongly suggested in In the Shadow of the Sun that the lodge was autonomous and received no outside support."

    More bad faith arguing from you Obelisk. You use a very neutral group of High Elves that aren't even part of the Alliance as some example to further your argument.

    When it's been mentioned countless times the High Elves players are asking to be made playable are those of the Alliance aka the ones officially within the Alliance already.

    I mean it would be like me associating the Scryers with the Horde. Or a player trying to insinuate their playable Blood Elf is from the scryers when we know officially that just cannot be.

    https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...9267207#post-6

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I don't think it's about their culture not being "primitive", it's more that when you play a Human or a Blood Elf, or any other race for that matter, your character comes from a specific "faction" within that race. This lends them the ability to choose what they want to "be" when they grow up, but only insofar as what that particular society offers.

    Playable Humans are always from the nation of Stormwind. Playable Blood Elves are always from Silvermoon. While it's possible for there to be "break aways" in the story and for members of those races to join "opposing factions" and learn new skills, that's not something that's on offer to player characters.

    If those classes were ever added to those races, I would expect specific backstory to be created for how those races adopted those techniques and rituals, such as with gnome hunters "creating" and taming mechanical beasts.
    Are the Quel'lithien lodge members currently part of the Alliance? No, that's why it's useless to bring them up in a request for playable Alliance High Elves. A group of High Elves that still to this day, fight for and are part of the Alliance faction.

    You can see a few of these members in BFA even. Heck they even include a High Elf on the island expedition team, which are supposedly:

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    "interesting members of the opposing faction to fight" - Jeremy Feasel, Senior Game Designer


    He states this at time 3:43-3:45.

    This is why your use of Quel'lithien is in bad faith. It would be like trying to posit that your playable Blood Elf comes from the Scryers in Outland, which we already know would not be true, or would just be player headcanon if they want to "RP" it.

    You present a Red Herring by trying to argue using ANY High Elf that could potentially support your argument. Tell me, do playable Goblins come from all the cartels? Is every Worgen a member of the Alliance? Do playable Humans cover all the kingdoms? What about the playable Tauren, are they all inclusive of every Tauren tribe? Do playable Orcs cover every type of Orc tribe?

    It is again, something that should be crystal clear: This request is for playable High Elves of the Alliance. The same High Elves that have been present within the Alliance even when their nation/kingdom of Quel'thalas pulled away, the same group of High Elves that have been ever present across WoW's expansions fighting in the name of the Alliance.

    Another thing to point out: It should be crystal clear that no single playable race encompasses every portion of their race. As stated by a Blizzard CM, we play "a specific faction within a race".
    Last edited by FlubberPuddy; 2019-06-12 at 03:00 PM.

  18. #10778
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Before you counter with Suramar, that is a capital in an abstract sense only as the city is still stuck in the Legion timeframe under Elisande with only a small area being friendly to Horde players.
    Doesn't matter. Suramar is a Horde capital, now, even if we, the players, cannot visit it. Blizzard can use instances of Suramar for future Horde content.
    Last edited by Ielenia; 2019-06-12 at 03:16 PM.
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  19. #10779
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Allright, true(I got one LF Draenei), but the Lightforged Draenei has been here for thousands of years, they were regular Draeneis before. Void Elves happened recently. In any case, Lightforged Draeneis are still Draenei in the sense of the race Draenei. I mean Draenei-members and LF Draeneis-members most likely got family(relatives perhaps) together, same for Void Elves who most likely still got family in Silvermoon. The term "race" doesn't really fit everywhere does it. That's the gist really.

    A Void Elf is still High Elven, nothing can change that.
    Fair point, wasn't really arguing your point one way or the other, just wanted to clarify that little tidbit.

    It's like a wizard in Harry Potter, or characters like Black Panther, Captain America, Bruce Banner or Captain Marvel in the Marvel universe (or insert your favorite trope here from some other universe....these were just the first ones to come to mind). Them having special powers doesn't make them stop being human, at their core, they're something a little more than human now, therefore their lives are fundamentally changed because of it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Before you counter with Suramar, that is a capital in an abstract sense only as the city is still stuck in the Legion timeframe under Elisande with only a small area being friendly to Horde players.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Doesn't matter. Suramar is a Horde capital, now, even if we, the players, cannot visit it. Blizzard can use instances of Suramar for future Horde content.
    I agree with Ielenia on this one. The fact is Suramar as a city still exists, it's not destroyed or compromised and the race that has sovereignty over it is aligned with the Horde. Therefore, lore wise, Suramar is a Horde city and the capital city of the Nightborne.

    The Legion is destroyed at this point so the reason for its self imposed isolation is over.

    It's not an in-game "capital city" for game play reasons, but more likely time and resource constraints needed to make an in-game capital city version of it.

  20. #10780
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Fair point, wasn't really arguing your point one way or the other, just wanted to clarify that little tidbit.

    It's like a wizard in Harry Potter, or characters like Black Panther, Captain America, Bruce Banner or Captain Marvel in the Marvel universe (or insert your favorite trope here from some other universe....these were just the first ones to come to mind). Them having special powers doesn't make them stop being human, at their core, they're something a little more than human now, therefore their lives are fundamentally changed because of it.
    You know, I was walking to the store and was reflecting a bit on this very important matter(:>). So to be a Lightforged Draenei you have to go through that ritual. But what are they before they go through that? Do the LF Draenei mom and LF Draenei dad make a LF Draenei baby or a Draenei baby? I would guess the latter seeing they have that ritual no? If not they wouldn't have to do that I assume? T'Partoos is a regular Draenei. So LF Draenei being a race is kind of not true in the bigger picture. And there lies the point. Playable races in WoW is set in stone. If you choose a LF Draenei you are a LF Draenei, not a Draenei. But looking at it from outside, and into the story instead, it's not that simple. A LF Draenei could easily be a regular Draenei that just performs that ritual. Doesn't make them another race. Just on the character screen.

    Same with Void Elves. No one is born a Void Elf. The playable and npc Void Elves are all Blood Elves, aka High Elves before they go through the let's say, ritual. Every Void Elf we see in game, be it playable or npcs are Thalassian Elves that was Blood/High Elves for centuries/milleniums before that. They are still Blood Elves, aka High Elves, no matter how much they transform. In 1000s of years when the Void Elves breeds Void Elf kids, I might see it differently

    I am just thinking out loud here, what is and what isn't, its pretty interesting seeing how races works when it comes to the game, vs the "real story" of the inhabitants of Azeroth, and the Great Beyond. It's nice though to discuss like this, makes you think of stuff in another way than just the game we play.

    Who would want to see a Void Elf baby btw?

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