Should AT&T and Verizon do more to combat hate speech?

[Machismo]

companies have no place enforcing any form of morality on the populace of this country.

we should have laws and regulations to force companies to never do this kind of thing. we're NOT corporatocracy, this would essentially be allowing companies to set the laws of our land.

You really do want to stifle their free speech and freedom of association, don't you.

It's a shame you also oppose private-property rights.

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Evidence of what? The left and right are both losing ground. Independents are the vast majority of America now.

The polls agree with you, which is why I want him to back up his claim.

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If you don’t believe in free speech for the people you disagree with the most; you don’t believe in free speech. I don’t care about what YouTube did but it certainly empowers people like the OP and creates this slippery slope.

This is how we get 1984. Firsf, the far right. Then the far left. Then anyone who speaks out. Soon we’ll all be towing the company line and speaking out or having a different opinion will be a no no

I absolutely believe in free speech. That's why I think companies should also be free to speak, and refuse business to people whom they do not wish to serve. Free speech does not mean others are obligated to give you a free megaphone, or provide you with a massive, attentive audience.

Are people outraged that YouTube doesn't show explicit porn or pro-ISIS propaganda? I don't hear a lot of whining about that. People have free speech, as do business owners, including YouTube. Every one of them can still operate their own website.

[justandulas]

You really do want to stifle their free speech and freedom of association, don't you.

It's a shame you also oppose private-property rights.

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The polls agree with you, which is why I want him to back up his claim.

True. I’m more attacking the OP about having phone companies spy on text and phone calls to ban people. That’s a very slippery slope. What’s next?

No problem with what YouTube is doing though. It’s fheir platform they can decide it’s nothing but cat videos. We have no say, unless we are google investors (I am but not enough to make a difference or a voice heard)

I just don’t like the idea of my phone spying on my convo and playing moral police

[Machismo]

no, i don't want full socialism.

but i do not at all believe businesses should be allowed to police the behavior of the citizenry. it effectively allows a form of fascism while you jack off about your "free market" bullshit.

i do want a lot of socialist ideas though. healthcare, UBI, even some housing, strict regulations on what business can and can't do.

They are policing the behavior on their own property. You are literally opposing private property rights.

You are the one who admitted to being a fascist, so whining about fascism seems rather disingenuous.

[derpkitteh]

You really do want to stifle their free speech and freedom of association, don't you.

It's a shame you also oppose private-property rights.

yeah yeah, stroke yourself as much as you want. but you unironically allow the restriction of freedom by allowing the formation of pseudo-governments within our country. but at least it's not the government, right?

[Machismo]

True. I’m more attacking the OP about having phone companies spy on text and phone calls to ban people. That’s a very slippery slope. What’s next?

No problem with what YouTube is doing though. It’s fheir platform they can decide it’s nothing but cat videos. We have no say, unless we are google investors (I am but not enough to make a difference or a voice heard)

I just don’t like the idea of my phone spying on my convo and playing moral police

Yeah, I don't see anything like that ever happening, because there's no money in it for them. It's a massive waste of time and money.

I'm speaking more of people like the guy who runs the Daily Stormer, and a company telling him to go fuck himself, because he's an avowed and vocal racist in society... no spying needed.

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yeah yeah, stroke yourself as much as you want. but you unironically allow the restriction of freedom by allowing the formation of pseudo-governments within our country. but at least it's not the government, right?

You have literally admitted to being a fascist, and called for the mass oppression of the majority of the populace. Do you honestly think your argument holds any weight?

If you don't like it, take your business elsewhere.

[justandulas]

They are policing the behavior on their own property. You are literally opposing private property rights.

You are the one who admitted to being a fascist, so whining about fascism seems rather disingenuous.

The only thing I will say about it is I dislike the hypocrisy. If they are gonna take down far right and white nationalism; why leave up black nationalism and anti white videos? They are there in droves.

On top of that, it irks me that google will play moral police at home with YouTube but sell its soul to Chinese government censorship etc.

The consistency irks me more than the censorship. It’d be like saying nudity is outlawed in USA YouTube but porn is ok in Chinese YouTube.

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Yeah, I don't see anything like that ever happening, because there's no money in it for them. It's a massive waste of time and money.

I'm speaking more of people like the guy who runs the Daily Stormer, and a company telling him to go fuck himself, because he's an avowed and vocal racist in society... no spying needed.

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You have literally admitted to being a fascist, and called for the mass oppression of the majority of the populace. Do you honestly think your argument holds any weight?

If you don't like it, take your business elsewhere.

We’re on the same page I think my man. Carry on the good fight. Private companies can do whatever they want.

Until the day the nra is banned from lobbyist donations; YouTube can censor who they want.

I just dislike the inconsistency is all

[Machismo]

The only thing I will say about it is I dislike the hypocrisy. If they are gonna take down far right and white nationalism; why leave up black nationalism and anti white videos? They are there in droves.

On top of that, it irks me that google will play moral police at home with YouTube but sell its soul to Chinese government censorship etc.

The consistency irks me more than the censorship. It’d be like saying nudity is outlawed in USA YouTube but porn is ok in Chinese YouTube.

They may be hypocrites, but they are also free to be hypocrites. I don't want to shut down Fox news, because they push a "conservative" bias, and ignore things that do not fit their narrative. They should still be free to be biased hypocrites.

This will always be about the money, and companies have no problems (or moral hang-ups) with their hypocrisy.

Most companies who deal a lot with China are hypocrites. But guess what, most people are constant hypocrites... so they are still mirroring society.

[Darkeon]

Sure thing, pedal to the metal. inb4 the eventual outcome.

"Hey, that historian got his bank account locked! wtf! Who could've forseen this!?"

[derpkitteh]

You have literally admitted to being a fascist, and called for the mass oppression of the majority of the populace. Do you honestly think your argument holds any weight?

If you don't like it, take your business elsewhere.

i mean, none of your arguments should even be taken seriously.

you ancaps are literally laughingstocks, the butt of everyone else's joke. you sit around and jack off to the smell of your bullshit while the not-government writes rules and regulation for everyone. then you'll probably have the nerve to bitch and whine when they take your guns and take YOUR speech.

it's idiotic, it's not worth addressing, and anyone that's not a highschool libertarian or literal fucking 1200's briton lord realizes it.

[justandulas]

They may be hypocrites, but they are also free to be hypocrites. I don't want to shut down Fox news, because they push a "conservative" bias, and ignore things that do not fit their narrative. They should still be free to be biased hypocrites.

This will always be about the money, and companies have no problems (or moral hang-ups) with their hypocrisy.

Most companies who deal a lot with China are hypocrites. But guess what, most people are constant hypocrites... so they are still mirroring society.

I don’t disagree with that and they are free to do whatever. No argument from me. It just slightly irks me as an American that they’ll judge us NP but the Chinese government has them wimpering like abused dogs.

Either be consistent globally or not. That’s the rub

Truthfully, you could probably even make a class action lawsuit about it claiming Us discrimination while other countries aren’t but I wouldn’t. Why bother. It doesn’t bother me a little, but as someone with a little law background you can certainly make a case for it the minute they started discriminating against American voices on either side but allowing foreign governments to dictate their content too.

YouTube is free to be free but they are kind of on the edge of that slippery slope and wouldn’t take one really clever lawyer to knock the whole thing down. Plus, it is only a matter of time before us government remembers that monopolies aren’t supposed to be a thing and scatter YouTube into 101 different directions

[Najnaj]

Given that our friends on the left wing have made it clear that White Nationalism and Right Wing extremism is on the rise, do you think companies like AT&T and Verizon should do more to combat them? Why should we allow a hateful bigot to operate a mobile phone or have access to the internet? It seems like curtailing access to these would combat this massive problem.

Results of the Troll-o-Meter are in and they are ... wait for it .... 1/10

[Machismo]

i mean, none of your arguments should even be taken seriously.

you ancaps are literally laughingstocks, the butt of everyone else's joke. you sit around and jack off to the smell of your bullshit while the not-government writes rules and regulation for everyone. then you'll probably have the nerve to bitch and whine when they take your guns and take YOUR speech.

it's idiotic, it's not worth addressing, and anyone that's not a highschool libertarian or literal fucking 1200's briton lord realizes it.

You have called for the systematic oppression of every single religious person on the planet.

I'm saying that a person or business on their own property would be able to kick someone out if they want. I think I like my stance much better than yours.

Who is writing rules for everyone? Are you talking about lobbyists?? Great, I hate lobbyists, because they push for more government. Are you talking about companies on their own property? Great, I love the idea of people and business owners being able to tell people to get the fuck out of their homes and businesses.

Nobody is taking away your speech. They are saying that they are not going to pay to give you a free megaphone, or a free, attentive audience.

[Najnaj]

They may be hypocrites, but they are also free to be hypocrites. I don't want to shut down Fox news, because they push a "conservative" bias, and ignore things that do not fit their narrative. They should still be free to be biased hypocrites.

This will always be about the money, and companies have no problems (or moral hang-ups) with their hypocrisy.

Most companies who deal a lot with China are hypocrites. But guess what, most people are constant hypocrites... so they are still mirroring society.

I would force Fox to be honest. Pretending to be a news channel while peddling propaganda and outright supporting a political party and candidates is not OK. Be a Rep. infomercial all you want but don't lie about being just that.

[vindicatorx]

Given that our friends on the left wing have made it clear that White Nationalism and Right Wing extremism is on the rise,

Wait a minute, the Justice department is left wing now?

[Machismo]

I don’t disagree with that and they are free to do whatever. No argument from me. It just slightly irks me as an American that they’ll judge us NP but the Chinese government has them wimpering like abused dogs.

Either be consistent globally or not. That’s the rub

Truthfully, you could probably even make a class action lawsuit about it claiming Us discrimination while other countries aren’t but I wouldn’t. Why bother. It doesn’t bother me a little, but as someone with a little law background you can certainly make a case for it the minute they started discriminating against American voices on either side but allowing foreign governments to dictate their content too.

YouTube is free to be free but they are kind of on the edge of that slippery slope and wouldn’t take one really clever lawyer to knock the whole thing down. Plus, it is only a matter of time before us government remembers that monopolies aren’t supposed to be a thing and scatter YouTube into 101 different directions

It is a bit aggravating, because hypocrisy makes people uncomfortable when they are not the ones practicing it at the time. Would I prefer that YouTube be consistent in their application of what they wish to ban, and not? Absolutely. If they say they want to not do business with assholes, then stop doing business with all assholes (or whatever word you want to use).

I don't even think it will take a clever lawyer. I think it would much more likely come from authoritarian legislators. There's already calls to get rid of Section 230 of the Telecommunications Act, or to nationalize and break apart YouTube, Facebook, and a host of other companies.

[Draco-Onis]

no, i don't want full socialism.

but i do not at all believe businesses should be allowed to police the behavior of the citizenry. it effectively allows a form of fascism while you jack off about your "free market" bullshit.

i do want a lot of socialist ideas though. healthcare, UBI, even some housing, strict regulations on what business can and can't do.

All the things you listed are categorized as socialism by the right.

[Machismo]

I would force Fox to be honest. Pretending to be a news channel while peddling propaganda and outright supporting a political party and candidates is not OK. Be a Rep. infomercial all you want but don't lie about being just that.

Nah, let FoxNews lie all they like. When they lie, make sure the world knows they are lying, and call them out on it.

Anyone with half a brain knows they are liars, and Republican shills, that's literally why they were created in the first place. Anyone who doesn't see it, has already been shown the truth, and has demonstrated that they will not believe the truth.

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"Hey, that historian got his bank account locked! wtf! Who could've forseen this!?"

Whose bank account got locked?

[justandulas]

It is a bit aggravating, because hypocrisy makes people uncomfortable when they are not the ones practicing it at the time. Would I prefer that YouTube be consistent in their application of what they wish to ban, and not? Absolutely. If they say they want to not do business with assholes, then stop doing business with all assholes (or whatever word you want to use).

I don't even think it will take a clever lawyer. I think it would much more likely come from authoritarian legislators. There's already calls to get rid of Section 230 of the Telecommunications Act, or to nationalize and break apart YouTube, Facebook, and a host of other companies.

Yeah, that’s the only thing that gets me too is the consistency. Wanna ban aasholes? Np but the guidelines need to be global. One size fits all.

Then again, maybe I should be mad at the us government for not fighting them more like the Chinese government did. Let the USA government tell YouTube either no censorship, or no business in the USA and watch how fast it turns into pornhub 2.0

I applaud their freedom to ban whoever, but I do hate the coming down on the western world while letting the east run wild.

Consistency is all I want but I can’t imagine I’d ever create any content that would get banned anyway so /shrug

Ps - good debates man and I hope you have a good day! Take care

[Najnaj]

Nah, let FoxNews lie all they like. When they lie, make sure the world knows they are lying, and call them out on it.

Anyone with half a brain knows they are liars, and Republican shills, that's literally why they were created in the first place. Anyone who doesn't see it, has already been shown the truth, and has demonstrated that they will not believe the truth.

Theoretically I would agree with you but... we know what happened. People with barely half a brain gets to vote too.

We know that they have been lying and bending truths to plug Trump and even though he has failed to live up to a single campaign promise and rather done the opposite of what he promised he still has 40++ % approval rating. This is in no small part due to Fox even if the current global economy helps as well.

[Machismo]

Yeah, that’s the only thing that gets me too is the consistency. Wanna ban aasholes? Np but the guidelines need to be global. One size fits all.

Then again, maybe I should be mad at the us government for not fighting them more like the Chinese government did. Let the USA government tell YouTube either no censorship, or no business in the USA and watch how fast it turns into pornhub 2.0

I applaud their freedom to ban whoever, but I do hate the coming down on the western world while letting the east run wild.

Consistency is all I want but I can’t imagine I’d ever create any content that would get banned anyway so /shrug

Ps - good debates man and I hope you have a good day! Take care

First off, I hope your day is outstanding. I wanted to put that in the beginning, so you don't have to read the rest if you don't want.

China is an authoritarian regime, not it's people... it's shitty government. I feel the same way about a lot of countries, like Iran, the Philippines, The United States, Israel, and even Russia. Their governments (and mine in the United States) brainwashed people far too much, and love to take away freedoms when they are not looking. With China, it's been so long, that people don't even really know what freedom looks like. They have been indoctrinated for so damn long, that they think freedom of speech and freedom of association are actually bad things. Hell, we've seen people from China actually argue that on these very forums.

As a business, I wouldn't want to work with China. They are far too restrictive, and I'm not that greedy to want their money. I certainly understand why companies want to do business there, I'm just not one of them. I own a small company, and I turned down large contract with another company, because two of their employees that would have been working with us were white nationalists. I told the company that I was walking away, and to have a nice day. It was up to them to decide if they wanted to keep employing those two racist asshats. Luckily, I have the flexibility to do that, because my company is rather small, less than ten employees.

Large companies do not have that flexibility, they are beholden to millions of shareholders... and those shareholders largely care about making money above all else. And let's be honest, the oppression in China is not really on the minds of most Americans. Hell, in the United States, we seem to ignore most bad things, unless it impacts children, or pretty people. Sure, there's the occasional outlier where people will use it to push politics. But, if you look at the missing person cases that actually draw attention, the victim is almost always a pretty woman, or a child.

In regards to China, I think one thing we can all do, is spend less money with them. No, I don't mean by pushing tariffs, I mean with honest to goodness personal responsibility. Stop buying things from China when you can. Put off building a computer, if the parts will come from China. Stop buying Happy Meals from McDonald's, and tell them why you are doing it. Stop buying useless trinkets from Wal-Mart. The best way to change China, is to stop giving them our money. The same can be said for anyone who doesn't like what any American company does, which has been my recommendation from the start.

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Theoretically I would agree with you but... we know what happened. People with barely half a brain gets to vote too.

We know that they have been lying and bending truths to plug Trump and even though he has failed to live up to a single campaign promise and rather done the opposite of what he promised he still has 40++ % approval rating. This is in no small part due to Fox even if the current global economy helps as well.

Yes, idiots do vote, and they should be able to vote. Hell, I want more people to vote, so convince them to do it. As for those people that are brainwashed, I have stopped trying to be nice to them. I'm done pandering to my Trumpster mother who spams fake news. I call her a liar, I prove her wrong, and I make sure everyone who reads what she posts knows she's lying. When I found out a friend of mine was racist (he said he wanted to kick out all Mexicans, even the legal ones), I told him exactly how I felt, and said I hope he has a nice life. I told him to give me a call when he changed who he was, and I informed his employer of what he had said, and what he believes. Will he ever change? Probably not. But, I don't have to have someone like that in my life. I still think he should be allowed to vote, and hope he does vote. Forcing people and companies to not be biased is never going to work. I'd prefer to inform the world that they are biased and liars.