I really miss the random BGs of old

[Gigantique]

I know there are many different opinions on this, and in no way am I bashing any opinion that differs from mine, just to make that very clear.

That said, does anyone other than me (knowing that the answer here is no, it’s just a figure of speech!) actually miss the gearing and reward system in random BGs from earlier expansions? Up until WoD the standard gearing path for PvP if you didn’t have carries, would be:

Reach max lvl > spam random BGs and get completely raped from your low ilvl > get a full set of previous-season glad gear > arenas to cap conquest > decked out in full conquest gear, random BGs was your «fun-factor» casual, where you would now stomp around and be BiS.

I know a lot of players found it frustrating to be at the bottom of the «no ilvl <-> full conquest gear» spectrum, and while it had its frustrating moments, I really miss the sense of «FINALLY!» I had whenever it was MY turn to be the conquest-genocidal maniac in a BG. When I had dinged a new toon and was the underdog, I would be forced to be smart about attacking higher-geared players and either act as a meatshield for our team or join in on killing players already distracted by other players. And when I finally reached the goal that is set by wanting the sweet loot, and also one that is set because you want «revenge» on the conq players stomping your face, that felt insanely rewarding.

I know the homogenization and «fair» direction PvP currently has is fairly popular, bar the actual gearing process, and I agree for the sake of rated content. For random BGs though? I don’t think I’ve set foot in more than 3 BGs for all of BfA, because why would I? The reward is non-existent whatsoever. Earlier you «needed» the pvp gear to be viable in pvp, so you had to get it somehow, and grinding Honor in BGs was the go-to method. Now it’s arenas/RBG and nothing else.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a shit-tier player that needs the imbalance of gear to even beat someone, I understand the viewpoint of those that want gear to be equal so that skill can be the dominant factor. But in a random BG the fairness is already thrown out the window in the matchmaking being unequal (3v1 healers etc), and it always felt good whenever you’d be matched in a BG where most of both teams were low-geared, and you could single-handedly hold the line or charge into an almost-lost-base in AB and turn the tide, or whenever you’d be two conquest-geared toons duking it out among all the others. The progression was crystal clear when you started, you had a clear goal, and every conquest cap you would FEEL more powerful in the battlegrounds. Random battlegrounds need that fun-factor, now that the actual rewards from it is pretty much non-existant.

Or just make it give a bazillion Honor, so that we can actually progress that hamster-wheel!

[dacoolist]

100% agree with ya OP, and the carrot on the stick that they got rid of really sucks imo. The stuff that a lot of us used to take pride in have sadly left.. and with it the community. Will be a dead game I GUESS in a few months - fucken sucks

- - - Updated - - -

And I'll add in, it's 100% in blizzards hands - they could EASILY revert this shit, they could easily change this shit they have themselves in, but the management is absolutely fucked

[RobertoCarlos]

Yes its called progression. And something the game lacks.

Also said progression should not be SO outdated each patch.

An epic conquest set would do you well into next season, not just be bottom tier with how high Item level jumps now patch to patch.

So the carrot on a stick is always there, but its not so dramatic to make it only be a king of a season type deal imo.

[Teokis]

I agree. Although I dreaded the honor grind every season reset, it was super rewarding and felt great when you finally got your honor gear + conquest cap @ 2k on the first week + your shoulders.

Idk.
I miss honor/conquest points/badges of justice/random "clutter" currencies that added a tiny bit more of a RPG feel. Shit, so many little things have been removed that added a lot to the RPG sense of the game. Even as tedious as it was, going back to a class trainer to learn your abilities just felt awesome.

[Big Thanks]

I feel your pain OP better than anyone else.
Random BGs are my life.

[Gigantique]

I mean, to me MoP was the pinnacle of WoW pvp (also happens to be the last expansion before the prunes, go figure!), and the system of Honor = grindable forever, grants you last seasons Conquest gear was perfect. If you had grinded your full conquest gear the previous season, you were as BiS as you could be until you started getting the new capped conquest gear week by week. And the «new» players or those that just didn’t cap conquest enough to get every slot could catch up to everyone else in as long as they wanted, since now Honor would get them the pieces they lacked.

And while it was never an amazing feeling to be at the receiving end of the fully conquest decked arms warrior salivating as he charges your puny still-in-heirlooms ass, it always felt great to either zerg them down with a little army of scrubs, outplay them and run for your life, and let us not forget, the absolute joy of buying that last conquest item, deciding to queue for some BGs for fun, and it now being YOUR turn to have «max HP bruh» and feel like a king.

Until 3 conquest-geared rogues ambush me and spoil the fun, and I have to write the mandatory «NURF ROGUES» post. Obviously.

[FAILoZOFF]

I do, but nothing of what you described.
I miss the old simple systems (mostly talents, that weweren't designed to be swapped back and forth), but whole gear thing you are describing? Nah. Not one bit.
Overpowering people with gear is in pretty much the same sht camping lowbies is. Fighing with people that stand no chance.
Never liked any of that. Random BG matches were decided mostly at the beggining- team with most green/blue geared people usually lost.
So yes, the most fun in random BGs I had was somewhere between Cata and... WoD, when they finally got ridd of PvE items ruinging the game.

[Gigantique]

I do, but nothing of what you described.
I miss the old simple systems (mostly talents, that weweren't designed to be swapped back and forth), but whole gear thing you are describing? Nah. Not one bit.
Overpowering people with gear is in pretty much the same sht camping lowbies is. Fighing with people that stand no chance.
Never liked any of that. Random BG matches were decided mostly at the beggining- team with most green/blue geared people usually lost.
So yes, the most fun in random BGs I had was somewhere between Cata and... WoD, when they finally got ridd of PvE items ruinging the game.

I respect your opinion, and I think we can then find common ground in that random BGs as they are right now have no tangible reward that makes them worth doing. The older systems made your reward at the end of the grind very obvious, in that elite geared player that was currently turning your face into mincemeat. That made reaching the goal more satisfying, as it had been teased for you throughout the entire process.

Currently, the only comparable examples I have are twofold; Gathering the elite Warfront set for my night elf hunter (colouring matches better than the elite pvp one that I currently use). While the way of gathering them and the RNG in it is VERY frustrating, the time it takes because of it will make completing the mog that much more worthwhile. The better example is the 7th legion medal mount that costs 750 of the suckers. It will simply take a long ass time. I can get 10 a day, then 20 from paragon chests and 15 per warfront cycle. But when I get it, the mount will feel much more rewarding than any of the rare mob drops I’ve collected.

Having time block your way to a reward is worth it, if the reward is dangled in front of you while you’re doing it (and the time-gating isn’t painfully long or boring).

Be it gear or cosmetics or just... anything, random BGs need more of a long-term reward for playing them often.

[crusadernero]

I really liked the old system to. sure, it was frustrating in the beginning since you got owned. But as you got gear over time you actually felt that you got stronger and stronger. That aspect feels gone now and thats sad.

[Schmilblick]

I miss PvP template from Legion, skill > gear in PvP.

[Gigantique]

I miss PvP template from Legion, skill > gear in PvP.

Very much agree for arenas and rated BGs, but in random BGs the balance is already skewed from the matchmaking (especially the amt of healers per team), in Legion your skill couldn’t do much if your team had one healer against their 3 in an AB match. At least with the pvp gear in random BGs, you could have an imbalanced amount of healers, but also an imbalanced level of gear to make up for it, letting you stand more of a chance.

And also the fun-factor was way higher, which is more the point of random BGs if you ask me.

[Schmilblick]

Very much agree for arenas and rated BGs, but in random BGs the balance is already skewed from the matchmaking (especially the amt of healers per team), in Legion your skill couldn’t do much if your team had one healer against their 3 in an AB match. At least with the pvp gear in random BGs, you could have an imbalanced amount of healers, but also an imbalanced level of gear to make up for it, letting you stand more of a chance.

And also the fun-factor was way higher, which is more the point of random BGs if you ask me.

But at least you wouldn't get obliterated by outgeared but unskilled players.

[dippinsawse]

It's because of the californian way of thinking. Everything has to be "fair" now and in the process of trying to involve everyone and make them happy, no one is happy. People naturally want to feel like they are achieving something and getting ahead of others while improving themselves. If that isn't possible and nothing you do matters people just don't try or care. Blizzard needs to realize that it is OKAY for someone to be at a disadvantage because that disadvantage is what motivates them to participate and enjoy the game in the process of breaking down their own limitations.

[Itisamuh]

The old system had two major problems for me. First, it completely put me off alts. I absolutely hate grinds in general, having to grind not fun stuff to get to fun stuff makes no sense to me. Having alts, I would spend an entire season gearing, but have no time to enjoy being geared, cause a new season would be on the way by the time they were all up to speed. And second, you had to do arena to get the most fun from doing battlegrounds, which is also poor design in my opinion. Any form of competition should strive to be as balanced as possible. If it were up to me, there would be no gear or item level at all in battlegrounds or arena.

[Gigantique]

But at least you wouldn't get obliterated by outgeared but unskilled players.

While true, you would also later get to be the one doing the obliterating. Being outmatched in gear forced you to be more careful; either zerg the geared player with numbers, or have a vast skill difference that let you outplay them.

Just like in PvE, in something unrated the amount of effort someone put into their character should matter, as it is an RPG first, pvp game second.

Lately (partly in Legion and definitely in BfA) there is simply no reason for me to do random BGs, and I used to do them a LOT before. There is just no carrot whatsoever, be it cosmetics, gear or the feeling of dominance. In Legion you had the Honor to grind at least, in BfA the honor amount earned compared to what’s needed is so stupidly low that’s not worth it either anymore.

For me the sense of badassery when you were as good as you could possibly be barring skill in random BGs and was therefore a force to be reckoned with vastly outdid the sense of wimpyness you felt before you reached that point, and was always something that made the BGs give that sense of progression PvP so sorely lacks outside of ratings these days.

And also, since you could always «know» by HP if a class had more or less conquest gear than you, it always felt good to beat that 1v1 against another <insert class> that had more HP (and therefore better gear) than you!

[Schmilblick]

While true, you would also later get to be the one doing the obliterating.

Which is really bad in a skill based content, people should get skill instead of getting gear, that's how it should be in PvP.

[Gigantique]

Which is really bad in a skill based content, people should get skill instead of getting gear, that's how it should be in PvP.

Again, agreed in a rated setting, but in a random BG you are already giving up balance due to not having enforced matchmaking. Then you’ll have Legion scenarios where people leave/go passive because the enemy team has 3 healers versus our 1, and skill won’t help much in that regard. If the matchmaking was more strict, for example by locking the amt of healers (since those have the biggest impact), I’d be more inclined to agree with you and argue that they can use cosmetics to represent the carrot random BGs sorely needs.

As it is right now, where the matchmaking is scuffed already, I’d say there’s no need to homogenize the gear. The WoD model (correct me if I’m wrong, I believe this is where it was introduced) is good imo, where everyone is equalized to a certain ilvl, but PvP gear brings you higher than that (one tier for Honor gear, one for Conquest), and PvE gear is locked to an ilvl below the Conquest gear.

Again, not disrespecting your opinion, it’s perfectly valid, but I disagree with it when the other factors of random BGs are as imbalanced as they currently are.

[Schmilblick]

Again, agreed in a rated setting, but in a random BG you are already giving up balance due to not having enforced matchmaking. Then you’ll have Legion scenarios where people leave/go passive because the enemy team has 3 healers versus our 1, and skill won’t help much in that regard. If the matchmaking was more strict, for example by locking the amt of healers (since those have the biggest impact), I’d be more inclined to agree with you and argue that they can use cosmetics to represent the carrot random BGs sorely needs.

As it is right now, where the matchmaking is scuffed already, I’d say there’s no need to homogenize the gear. The WoD model (correct me if I’m wrong, I believe this is where it was introduced) is good imo, where everyone is equalized to a certain ilvl, but PvP gear brings you higher than that (one tier for Honor gear, one for Conquest), and PvE gear is locked to an ilvl below the Conquest gear.

Again, not disrespecting your opinion, it’s perfectly valid, but I disagree with it when the other factors of random BGs are as imbalanced as they currently are.

So here, you telling me that it's okay to have imbalanced play since we already have imbalanced matchmaking ? I won so many games without any healer in the team and healers can't win games, they help, but certainly don't win games if you teammates have a skill and focus on objectives.

[Nnyco]

yes nothin is more fun than bein useless.

[Boricha]

I agree, but I'd also get rid of the bonus honor for random BGs. I'd much rather queue for the ones I want again and not feel penalized.