German Boat Captain Faces 20 Years in Prison For Saving Refugees

[Easo]

Please show me where on Mediterranean Sea is Eritrea's coastline.

Do you think there is a straight route to Europe? There is reason they use smugglers and go hundreds of kilometers through deserts. And I fail to see what it has to do with the fact that there are places where you run away from even without war. Which you, for some reason, did not even dispute, which makes your question even stranger.

[josykay]

Victims of human trafficking are eligible for T visa. So when you hear someone charged with trafficking what happens is:

the immigrants get visa. and when the case gets to court, the smuggler is not found to be trafficker but smuggler.
(don't know what happens to the visa afterwards, but I doubt it gets revoked)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T_visa

So the courts and governments would massivly shoot themselves in the food, if they consider it trafficking?

[DKjaigen]

She did the right thing she is a Good human being vs all the other POS condemning her. The world needs a lot more of her.

Sure fuck the poor elderly and the sick in my own country right because that is what you saying. Their is no good thing here Somebody is going to suffer for her actions or inactions. And i rather that the economic migrants suffer then my own people

[Slant]

She did the right thing she is a Good human being vs all the other POS condemning her. The world needs a lot more of her.

No, we don't. We already have idealistic and ignorant fools aplenty. What we need is people that come up with actual solutions to the core problem, not people that profile themselves as samaritans on the back of people back home without solving anything for anyone, refugees included.

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Do you think there is a straight route to Europe? There is reason they use smugglers and go hundreds of kilometers through deserts. And I fail to see what it has to do with the fact that there are places where you run away from even without war. Which you, for some reason, did not even dispute, which makes your question even stranger.

Do you think they're entitled to a life in Europe? Are you smoking crack? The world doesn't work like that. Never has, won't for the foreseeable time.

[s_bushido]

If a person is from Bulgaria or something, and want to move to the Nordics, that's fine. Bulgaria is a functioning, stable country, where everyone can get all the papers they need for legal entry. But if you grew up in a poor village in the middle of a war zone where every day may be your last, you might not be able to get a passport and such, or have enough information on the formality of the process. Give these people a break.

Nah, bro. They're "economic migrants," because they managed to scrape together literally all the money they had in order to pay a trafficker to help get them to another country. If they were really refugees, they wouldn't have any money in the first place! Duh!

[Doctor Amadeus]

Sure fuck the poor elderly and the sick in my own country right because that is what you saying. Their is no good thing here Somebody is going to suffer for her actions or inactions. And i rather that the economic migrants suffer then my own people

The same greed and utter fucking stupidity is responsible for both.

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No, we don't. We already have idealistic and ignorant fools aplenty. What we need is people that come up with actual solutions to the core problem, not people that profile themselves as samaritans on the back of people back home without solving anything for anyone, refugees included.

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Do you think they're entitled to a life in Europe? Are you smoking crack? The world doesn't work like that. Never has, won't for the foreseeable time.

The same thing that makes you think you’re entitled to rape, pillage the free world of everything to support your life. I see why you have a problem with this.

[Flarelaine]

Nah, bro. They're "economic migrants," because they managed to scrape together literally all the money they had in order to pay a trafficker to help get them to another country. If they were really refugees, they wouldn't have any money in the first place! Duh!

You're trying sarcasm on people who already believe literally what you've just said.

[Slant]

The same thing that makes you think you’re entitled to rape, pillage the free world of everything to support your life. I see why you have a problem with this.

Ok, act like an idiot then, that's fine.

[Easo]

Do you think they're entitled to a life in Europe? Are you smoking crack? The world doesn't work like that. Never has, won't for the foreseeable time.

And another one making my words up.
All I said that it is understandable/there are reasons why refugees are not running only from warzones, but from countries at peace too, like my mentioned Eritrea. I never said they are entitled to life in Europe (though by laws Europe is supposed to take care of refugees. In what way, well, there is this huge debate, is there not?).
P.S.
It worked in WW2, if you haven't forgotten. A lot of people run away and were not turned back.

[I Push Buttons]

Should really get rid of the refugee convention, it's a relic of a time that is long gone now. It was made for another world than what currently exists.

Needs to be amended at the very least.

Its based on good faith which, as of late, massive amounts of people acting in bad faith take advantage of for their own selfish gain.

[Slant]

And another one making my words up.
All I said that it is understandable/there are reasons why refugees are not running only from warzones, but from countries at peace too, like my mentioned Eritrea. I never said they are entitled to life in Europe (though by laws Europe is supposed to take care of refugees. In what way, well, there is this huge debate, is there not?).
P.S.
It worked in WW2, if you haven't forgotten. A lot of people run away and were not turned back.

"I never said they're entiteld, but really they're practically refugees, because everyone who is poor is a refugee from poverty" etc.

WW2 established the concept of refugees IN WARTIMES or AS A RESULT OF WAR and the convention was a tool to legalise the massive back and forth in Europe due to the new borders. Mostly, because nobody had a clue how to verify where everyone was from. We've had millions of Germans driven out of former Prussia by the Russians and other people moved east and it was pretty chaotic without any kind of administration to oversee it all... those are the precedents. The convention is not and never was aimed to allow poor people to move into rich countries. That's beyond the scope of the Geneva convention.

That most people have no clue what the difference between wartime refugee, political asylum seeker and (economic) migrant is doesn't change the fact that these terms have specific meanings and specific legal status and consequences attached to them.

So no, these guys are not entitled to move into Europe just like that. I don't give a shit if they starve to death. I don't pretend to be a saint. I will happily oblige laws and help whenever it is reasonable. But what's happening now isn't reasonable. I have always maintained that Syrian refugees is one thing, but that doesn't mean Eritreans should take it as a general invitation to just go and waltz into Europe. They can apply for visas and permits like everyone else. And people like you need to research the shit you're posting here.

Instead of wasting money on boats and spoonfeeding migrants in Europe (on top of spoonfeeding actual refugees), we shouold spend the money to fix their countries. Alas, they keep blowing themselves up constantly. So at this time perhaps it's time to let evolution run its course.

[Forogil]

So the courts and governments would massivly shoot themselves in the food, if they consider it trafficking?

No, since Italy and the EU is not part of the US - and only some victims of human trafficking in the US are eligible for T-visa (there are additional requirements).

[Easo]

"I never said they're entiteld, but really they're practically refugees, because everyone who is poor is a refugee from poverty" etc.

WW2 established the concept of refugees IN WARTIMES or AS A RESULT OF WAR and the convention was a tool to legalise the massive back and forth in Europe due to the new borders. Mostly, because nobody had a clue how to verify where everyone was from. We've had millions of Germans driven out of former Prussia by the Russians and other people moved east and it was pretty chaotic without any kind of administration to oversee it all... those are the precedents. The convention is not and never was aimed to allow poor people to move into rich countries. That's beyond the scope of the Geneva convention.

That most people have no clue what the difference between wartime refugee, political asylum seeker and (economic) migrant is doesn't change the fact that these terms have specific meanings and specific legal status and consequences attached to them.

So no, these guys are not entitled to move into Europe just like that. I don't give a shit if they starve to death. I don't pretend to be a saint. I will happily oblige laws and help whenever it is reasonable. But what's happening now isn't reasonable. I have always maintained that Syrian refugees is one thing, but that doesn't mean Eritreans should take it as a general invitation to just go and waltz into Europe. They can apply for visas and permits like everyone else. And people like you need to research the shit you're posting here.

Instead of wasting money on boats and spoonfeeding migrants in Europe (on top of spoonfeeding actual refugees), we shouold spend the money to fix their countries. Alas, they keep blowing themselves up constantly. So at this time perhaps it's time to let evolution run its course.

Well, maybe then if you lack humanity, you should stop talking. Values of Europe, at least the EU is to give a shit. No ifs or buts.
And the evolution argument? Ahh, I see, racist too. Your avatar is strangely... not applicable.

[Slant]

Well, maybe then if you lack humanity, you should stop talking. Values of Europe, at least the EU is to give a shit. No ifs or buts.
And the evolution argument? Ahh, I see, racist too. Your avatar is strangely... not applicable.

Are you actually an American trying to lecture me on the moral high ground? Really? How about we ship those 1 million Syrians onto your front lawn then? Because it's your country that's responsible for them in the first place. Gee, thanks mate. Totally great job you did there. I'm not one to whinge about it, but you better shut up about moral standards and what we can or cannot do, Mr. I-live-in-a-country-with-an-actual-racist-democratically-elected.

Geez, the nerve...

[Easo]

Are you actually an American trying to lecture me on the moral high ground? Really? How about we ship those 1 million Syrians onto your front lawn then? Because it's your country that's responsible for them in the first place. Gee, thanks mate. Totally great job you did there. I'm not one to whinge about it, but you better shut up about moral standards and what we can or cannot do, Mr. I-live-in-a-country-with-an-actual-racist-democratically-elected.

Geez, the nerve...

Oh, yes, the nerve to call racists out. Also, I am from EU. Or did the fat Americaball confuse you? xD
I do not have this huge, imaginary problem with refugees and immigrants. I will give that they have not been handled very well, but once more. EU values are not about "evolution" or other bullshit.

[Noradin]

Libya has its own MRCC. But its quite clear what happened . The boat picked the economic migrants up in Libyan waters and contacted the Maltese MRCC instead of the Libyan. Because the Libyan MRCC would have demanded they set course to Tripoli or Misratah

Sure they would have...

[Slant]

Oh, yes, the nerve to call racists out. Also, I am from EU. Or did the fat Americaball confuse you? xD
I do not have this huge, imaginary problem with refugees and immigrants. I will give that they have not been handled very well, but once more. EU values are not about "evolution" or other bullshit.

Then you really have no excuse to act as stupidly as you are right now. Who's paying for them? Who is going to pay for them in the future? Are you going to ship them back once the war is over? What about the rest of the third world? Why do you make this about race? Have you actually thought about this and the consequences longer than 2 seconds it took to make that self-righteous post of yours? Have you actually understood what I'm saying or are you just here to pick a fight? Do you understand the refugee convention? Have you actually looked it up? What would you have Italy, Greece and Spain do with the migrants that clearly are not refugees and therefore don't have the convention apply to them? Not just a few hundreds, but thousands and thousands altogether? Do you know the difference between economic migrants and refugees?

I've sat on your side of the fence, so calling me a racist is beyond stupid. But unlike you, I don't think just because we help Syrian refugees it's a carte blanque for everyone and their dog to come here. Because unlike you, I don't live off feelgoods, I actually pay taxes and it's my money going into this. And as much as I detest people that suggest shooting those dingys to get rid of this influx, I detest blind idealists like you that have no regard for consequences, rules or any kind of reasonable understanding of what makes Europe Europe. See, spoiled brats like you have no fucking idea what it is like in the Middle East. And while I understand that we should help people in actual need, one of the reasons why every part but Europe is so fucked up is... the people in every part but Europe. And you want to let them in because... feelgoods?

The EU doesn't give a shit about the third world. The main purpose of the EU is to keep peace in Europe. The EU doesn't even have rules about immigration, because that's a national matter of every member state. The EU is all about how Europeans manage each other. So don't give me this hippie bullshit about the EU being all about altruism. It's not. The EU is the meanest trade bloc on the planet as the UK is finding out just now. They're 3 years into their process and they still haven't gotten with the program of just how much the EU will look out for its member states.

You need to get new rhetoric. Fast.

[DKjaigen]

The same greed and utter fucking stupidity is responsible for both.

I dont believe in that crap. Just choose which group of people you want to help . But do not try both because you cannot safe everybody since Europe lacks the resources .

[tankbug]

Which you are not, otherwise you wouldn't be suggesting irresponsible solutions.

It's responsible to help others. It's a survival-trait of our species, and a corner stone of a healthy society. But hey, go live in your bubble.

Questionable.

(Most) people who are educated, can see the world beyond their personal experiences, how history has taken us to where we are now, and so are not as easily fooled by the divide and conquer political tactics by right-wing politicians and organisations.

Definitely doesn't fit you. It's highly immoral to drop people off in a country that has explicitly said they do not want them.

Let's just say that I find my morals superior to yours. I won't sacrifice people's lives because some racists don't like the idea that a few thousand dark skinned refugees are entering the country. All modern nations have the duty to help out, it's not just charity.

No, you're just another person who likes to talk big on internet about how much you care but you won't give anything up in real life.

False. You know nothing about me, so why make that claim? I donate a fixed amount to charity every month. I use my vote to influence my country to spend more money on building a better future for the less fortunate among us, which results in more taxes for me. I hope you don't vote, to put it mildly.

[Freighter]

It's responsible to help others.

Not at the cost of your own people.

(Most) people who are educated, can see the world beyond their personal experiences, how history has taken us to where we are now, and so are not as easily fooled by the divide and conquer political tactics by right-wing politicians and organisations.

If you were educated, you would know immigration isn't a left or right-wing issue.

I won't sacrifice people's lives

That's exactly what people like you are doing even if you like to claim otherwise. Just your own people and not foreigners. Hardly moral to forsake your own people for the benefit of others. Definitely not moral to drop people off where the state has said they don't want them.

All modern nations have the duty to help out, it's not just charity.

No, a states duty is to its own people.

False. You know nothing about me, so why make that claim? I donate a fixed amount to charity every month. I use my vote to influence my country to spend more money on building a better future for the less fortunate among us, which results in more taxes for me. I hope you don't vote, to put it mildly.

Big talk on internet is easy.