What are your thoughts on Thorium reactors

[Galactis]

Legal issues. Radiation being one of them.

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Sure, but because cost is the issue now doesn't mean that cost will be the issue forever. I don't think I'd term the arguments for thorium and fusion to be fallacious, the arguments are good, it merely poses the problem, if we want access to safe/clean energy, how do we make it cost effective?

Nothing to do with cost, if the government has the means, or need or war driver, we will do it. Hell we were going to have NERVA running as early as 72' for the late stage Apollo missions to go to Mars. Watch some of the old Von Braun documentaries, was literally a huge plan and had a space ring and was beautiful.

[Monster Hunter]

I believe a long time ago there were some pretty successful alternative reactor prototypes. I am not sure if they were thorium specifically.

They did not build them because the byproducts were not military grade bomb materials so the conspiracy goes.

We *know* they:

Cannot melt down
Have relatively large proven reserves of fuel compared to uranium, far more so than the reserves would indicate because most naturally occurring thorium is the stuff you want which is not something you can say about uranium
Have less awful radioactive waste

So we can say they are better - if they worked. What really kills nuclear power is the duly required amount of regulation. Thorium might have an advantage here a as well as there will never be a thorium Chernobyl/Fukushima.

you can have a thorium Chernobyl. Chernobyl wasn't caused by a meltdown it was a flaw in the RBMK reactor that caused a steam explosion and fire with radioactive particles in the smoke. the melt down was a by product of the accident and wasn't really that much of an issue once they stopped it getting to the ground soil. replacing uranium with thorium in that instance wouldn't have made much difference.

that and to get technical thorium is fertile rather than fissile so it needs to be used with some thing like plutonium or uranium any way to be used as fuel on top of which thorium fuel breeds into uranium-233. see @Masark posts for more details on all that.

now for Fukushima it would have helped as the problems there were mostly caused by the meltdown which lead to a pressure explosion rather than the other way round like Chernobyl.

[Galactis]

you can have a thorium Chernobyl. Chernobyl wasn't caused by a meltdown it was a flaw in the RBMK reactor that caused a steam explosion and fire with radioactive particles in the smoke. the melt down was a by product of the accident and wasn't really that much of an issue once they stopped it getting to the ground soil. replacing uranium with thorium in that instance wouldn't have made much difference.

that and to get technical thorium is fertile rather than fissile so it needs to be used with plutonium to be used a fuel on top of which thorium fuel can breed uranium-233.

now for Fukushima it would have helped as the problems there were mostly caused by the meltdown which lead to a pressure explosion rather than the other way round like Chernobyl.

The Fukushima incident was due to Hydrogen gas explosion.

[Monster Hunter]

The Fukushima incident was due to Hydrogen gas explosion.

the Fukushima accident was due to a failure of the Emergency diesel generators due to the tsunami to power the water cooling pumps, that lead to a melt down that led to an hydrogen explosion.

from the NEA timeline

Saturday, 12 March 2011 (Day 2)

Back-up battery supplies are depleted. The ability to cool the reactors of units 1, 2 and 3 is significantly degraded or unavailable. Discharges to suppression chambers designed to control pressure within the reactor coolant system cause pressure within the primary containments to increase. Venting of the unit 1 primary containment begins. Evacuation of residents within 10 km of the Fukushima Daiichi NPP is underway. A hydrogen explosion occurs in the unit 1 reactor building destroying the upper structure of the building where the spent fuel pool is housed. The unit 1 spent fuel pool is exposed to the atmosphere. The evacuation zone is extended to 20 km around Fukushima Daiichi. Seawater is injected into the unit 1 reactor.

[Galactis]

the Fukushima accident was due to a failure of the Emergency diesel generators due to the tsunami to power the water cooling pumps, that lead to a melt down that led to an hydrogen explosion.

from the NEA timeline

Correct, which is what I said. I already knew about the engines failure because, of the water flooding.

[Monster Hunter]

Correct, which is what I said. I already knew about the engines failure because, of the water flooding.

still to this day cant understand why non of the Fukushima incident wasn't foreseen.

[Galactis]

still to this day cant understand why non of the Fukushima incident wasn't foreseen.

Different regulations and design, at least from what I've read over time. None of the US designs allow for that type of design or implementation like Japan's. Partially also the reason why it takes 10 years, and it's HIGHLY expensive for Nuclear Reactor construction in the US.

[Malikath]

Nuclear Waste from Thorium reactors is actually more useless than nuclear waste we have nowadays.

stop drinking the cool-aid, nuclear waste isn't worthless or useless, even letting it lie around will eventually result in the heavy metal decaying into other heavy metals, many of which like gold are valuable, the nuclear waste storage market is entirely monopolized here in the US for this reason but because everyone's idea of nuclear waste is green glowing sludge it goes unnoticed.

and FYi, Russia still uses uranium for it's reactors for the purpose of refining uranium 235 from 238, this is a thorium reactor discussion.

thorium cannot be weaponized by thugs.

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you can have a thorium Chernobyl.

you literally can't, because unlike uranium thorium cannot sustain it's own reaction.
thorium reactors need to instigate the reaction to sustain it.

shut up about shit you're ignorant about.

[Galactis]

stop drinking the cool-aid, nuclear waste isn't worthless or useless, even letting it lie around will eventually result in the heavy metal decaying into other heavy metals, many of which like gold are valuable, the nuclear waste storage market is entirely monopolized here in the US for this reason but because everyone's idea of nuclear waste is green glowing sludge it goes unnoticed.

and FYi, Russia still uses uranium for it's reactors for the purpose of refining uranium 235 from 238, this is a thorium reactor discussion.

Actually, there's just about no waste from Thorium that is bad. Actually most of the off-products from LFTR "Liquid Flouride Thorium Reactors", is materials in HIGH demand for the health industry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=bbyr7jZOllI

Ken Worked for NASA at one point. I highly recommend his company Flibe Energy. The presentation is AMAZING!. Check it out and check out the programs we used to do in the 60's. They all were really good things... Nowadays we do nothing.

[The Scourge of Azuremyst]

Next you’re going to tell me iron is a real element too. /s

What about Dark Iron and Ghost Iron? lol

[Masark]

What issues do they need to iron out before they can put this into widespread practice?

AFAIK, materials engineering. The piping needs to be made of something that is resistant to neutron embrittlement (This is also a problem that will need to be solved to get useful fusion reactors) and is able to stand up to the extremely corrosive molten salt.

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thorium cannot be weaponized by thugs.

No, it can be. As part of the fuel cycle (which I covered previously), thorium is bred into uranium-233, which is the actual fissile fuel and is perfectly usable for bombs.

Though it's much more difficult to deal with than the more usual u-235 or plutonium, as it's contaminated with U-232, which is nasty stuff.

[Dyatlov]

Not great, Not terrible

[Thage]

They are like uranium reactors but better.

I fully support further research and development on thorium nuclear power. If they prove successful, I would go so far as to promote switching over to thorium power as our primary power source while developing eco-friendly alternative sources as supplements, until such a time where we can reliably maintain a similar quality of life off hydro/geothermal/wind/solar/etc. power, if such a time were to come.

[Galactis]

I fully support further research and development on thorium nuclear power. If they prove successful, I would go so far as to promote switching over to thorium power as our primary power source while developing eco-friendly alternative sources as supplements, until such a time where we can reliably maintain a similar quality of life off hydro/geothermal/wind/solar/etc. power, if such a time were to come.

LFTR "Liquid Floride Thorium Reactor", or the Molten Salt as it's referred to as. Has already been proven to work with over 10,000 hours of testing as the NERVA reactor was a biproduct of. In fact, the LFTR was 100% ready to be built before the Uranium reactor was by a small few months. Nixon was drafted both proposals and the Dept' Chair for Atomic Energy Comission was a great friend of Nixon's in a particular state that so badly wanted the tax breaks and kick backs for nuclear in the state. Also, the biggest selling point is that we were already production nuclear weapons and warheads and so on of which is a product of the enrichment of U-235 into Uranium reactors. Since we were already making weapons, and surplus was there already. Made sense to make that same Uranium into reactors. Also, The downside is that Thorium or the "LFTR" style reactor (Molten Salt), could not be used to make weapons afterward. In fact, quite the opposite. Thorium was touted and still is touted today as being 100% nuclear waste free. Essentially Thorium can take all the current Uranium, Plutonium, waste and use it as energy conversion in it's natural usage state and then come out with net zero waste.

There are HUGE positives for Thorium though as well. Biggest selling point, Zero, absolutely, ZERO risk for meltdown. It just doesn't operate that way.

So Nixon chose the first choice and easy choice, Uranium. Now we're suffering those failures today with the aging out of about 5-10 uranium plants each year. With only about 2-4 coming on each 10 years.

If you're really interested check out my earlier posts on Flibe Energy and Ken Sorrensons 2012 speech on thorium. It's REALLY awesome. They're only recently in 2016 since getting increased funding for further research but, it's nearly damn nothing from the government. Meanwhile, the rest of the world is building ITER, China is building right now a fusion plant for research. The USA, doing nothing of the sort. We're building and converting more coal plants to natural gas. Sad really, stepping back in time this country.

Renewables all the way....

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AFAIK, materials engineering. The piping needs to be made of something that is resistant to neutron embrittlement (This is also a problem that will need to be solved to get useful fusion reactors) and is able to stand up to the extremely corrosive molten salt.

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No, it can be. As part of the fuel cycle (which I covered previously), thorium is bred into uranium-233, which is the actual fissile fuel and is perfectly usable for bombs.

Though it's much more difficult to deal with than the more usual u-235 or plutonium, as it's contaminated with U-232, which is nasty stuff.

I thought I read a paper relating to this about Stainless steel for most because, of it's high resistive properties. I know SpaceX is considering it for Star-ship, Liner, whatever it's called now.

I know a Thorium reactor would be HUGELY expensive more so than Uranium reactor but, the payoff is 100x the power and distribution costs are through the floor. Think of who cheap it was when Oil was making a huge splash as Standard Oil came around. Yeah, it went high because, they owned most of the production, refining, distribution. However, The first couple would be high price but, over time the LONG TERM benefits outweigh EVERYTHING all fossil fuels have done to date. Thorium is the future that has already had 3 working prototypes and was ready for production.

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What about Dark Iron and Ghost Iron? lol

Lawlz, or any of the other Irons that have gotten abandoned. I think you're on to something.

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I will leave this here for the weekend. Enjoy friends

https://flibe-energy.com/technology/

[Monster Hunter]

stop drinking the cool-aid, nuclear waste isn't worthless or useless, even letting it lie around will eventually result in the heavy metal decaying into other heavy metals, many of which like gold are valuable, the nuclear waste storage market is entirely monopolized here in the US for this reason but because everyone's idea of nuclear waste is green glowing sludge it goes unnoticed.

and FYi, Russia still uses uranium for it's reactors for the purpose of refining uranium 235 from 238, this is a thorium reactor discussion.

thorium cannot be weaponized by thugs.

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you literally can't, because unlike uranium thorium cannot sustain it's own reaction.
thorium reactors need to instigate the reaction to sustain it.

shut up about shit you're ignorant about.

Is it not self sustaining after the initial kick off with a fission matarial. As thorium becomes uranium 233 which feeds back in converting more thorium.

But that's besides the point. Chernobyl was a pressure explosion you can cause that kind of accident with any fuel type and it would still be a polluting because thorium recites still have uranium 233 in them.

[Osmeric]

stop drinking the cool-aid, nuclear waste isn't worthless or useless,

Nuclear waste is in fact useless. The cost of getting anything out of it is greater than the value of that stuff.

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But that's besides the point. Chernobyl was a pressure explosion you can cause that kind of accident with any fuel type and it would still be a polluting because thorium recites still have uranium 233 in them.

And thorium reactors will become contaminated with 232U, an alpha emitter which is hundreds of times more radioactive than plutonium.

[Afrospinach]

And thorium reactors will become contaminated with 232U, an alpha emitter which is hundreds of times more radioactive than plutonium.

Alpha particles super easy to block though, blocked by skin.

[Osmeric]

Alpha particles super easy to block though, blocked by skin.

And extremely dangeous if ingested, even in very small amounts.

[Masark]

And thorium reactors will become contaminated with 232U, an alpha emitter which is hundreds of times more radioactive than plutonium.

U232 isn't a problem itself. The problem is what it decays into. Several of its daughter isotopes are intense gamma emitters, such as thallium-208.

[try2ki55]

Thorium might have an advantage, really