Did Hitler have any rational end goals?

[Independent voter]

So I've always thought that Hitler was just a crazy person bent on total global domination like that cartoon character "The Brain" in "Pinky and The Brain". Yeah, he was racist and hated the Jews and Slavs, so enslaving them or killing them off, that might've been part of his goals too.

Let's pretend for a moment that Hitler was sane.

What was a German victory? did it include the defeat of Britain and America? Or was the defeat of the Soviets enough?
What did Hitler plan on achieving, following a German victory?

Do not discuss forbidden topics!

[tikcol]

Easy,

Hitler was no scheming mastermind plotting world domination. He had no vision of how the war against the worlds major powers would successfully be brought to an end, because he had never wanted that total war. He had wanted a series of limited wars to build a thousand year Reich and have "Lebensraum im Osten".

/thread

[Monster Hunter]

So I've always thought that Hitler was just a crazy person bent on total global domination like that cartoon character "The Brain" in "Pinky and The Brain". Yeah, he was racist and hated the Jews and Slavs, so enslaving them or killing them off, that might've been part of his goals too.

Let's pretend for a moment that Hitler was sane.

What was a German victory? did it include the defeat of Britain and America? Or was the defeat of the Soviets enough?
What did Hitler plan on achieving, following a German victory?

His sane goals were the return of the territory Germany lost in ww1, and Bismarcks old goal of unifying the German peoples of Europe into one German nation which was left incomplete.

Also to stop bolshavik communism in Germany but that wasnt a major goal just part of the process of eliminating competition and gaining allies from the anti-communists.

[zorkuus]

What victory? When someone's building an empire, they don't just suddenly stop and say this is enough.

His sane goals were the return of the territory Germany lost in ww1

Is that why he took France etc.?

[Micronetic]

What victory? When someone's building an empire, they don't just suddenly stop and say this is enough.


Is that why he took France etc.?

Except he didn't took France.

[Mihalik]

So I've always thought that Hitler was just a crazy person bent on total global domination like that cartoon character "The Brain" in "Pinky and The Brain". Yeah, he was racist and hated the Jews and Slavs, so enslaving them or killing them off, that might've been part of his goals too.

Let's pretend for a moment that Hitler was sane.

What was a German victory? did it include the defeat of Britain and America? Or was the defeat of the Soviets enough?
What did Hitler plan on achieving, following a German victory?

Read his book.

A Nazi victory would have been Lebensraum in the East. The subjugation of the Slavs into a slave class in the east, with strict population controls.

The destruction of Britain was not seen as a necessity. They would have preferred coexistence. A lot of Nazis were quite anglophile and they admired the British Empire for its colonial prowess.

Ideally they would have wanted a France that reorganized itself along Nazi ideological lines.

The extermination of Jews and Gypsies from the whole of Europe was also pretty high on their list of priorities.

They never had major ambitions for the Americas, probably a negotiated peace. The Nazis were also relatively fond of many elements of the US, especially segregation, eugenics and racial hierarchies. For much the early 20's century the US was basically at the forefront of racial theories, eugenics and racial policies, and the Nazis copy pasted a lot of what was coming out of the US.

[zorkuus]

Except he didn't took France.

Please tell me more Adolf.

[Pentai]

Eliminating European economic/cultural competition the hard-way, 'purifying' Germany from foreign influences and dependancies such as Jews, eradicating communism (he was allied to the UK and US on this aspect up until the end of the war) and finally establishing itself as the dominant culture and industry.

[Machismo]

Except he didn't took France.

Ummm, what?

[zorkuus]

Looks like it's stormfront day here again.

[Zarc]

Hitler wanted to establish the "Aryan race" as the master race because he believed Northern European White people to be genetically superior to all other human beings. I believe he was rational enough to think that he was not going to be able to complete this goal within his lifetime, but he thought he would be able to establish a "Third Reich" consisting of Europe and all of Russia in which the "Aryan race" would be the master race within his lifetime. Inferior races would be enslaved and the "Aryan race" would produce babies on an industrial scale and others would carry his vision forward after his demise, with the eventual enslavement of all not deemd "Aryan" and probably, in his mind, ultimately exterminated from the Eath until only the superior race remains.

Safe to say that is not a rational end goal but a totally batshit crazy one. :P

[Mihalik]

Ummm, what?

He is trying to say that after defeating France, the Nazis didn't immediately occupy the whole of France, but only part of it and allowed the sock-puppet Vichy France to exist, well at least for a while, until they eventually occupied the whole thing.

[Machismo]

He is trying to say that after defeating France, the Nazis didn't immediately occupy the whole of France, but only part of it and allowed the sock-puppet Vichy France to exist, well at least for a while, until they eventually occupied the whole thing.

I mean, that's not a very good argument, considering that's what a lot of conquerors do. It's simply far easier on logistics, personnel, and maintains stability.

[Monster Hunter]

Hitler wanted to establish the "Aryan race" as the master race because he believed Northern European White people to be genetically superior to all other human beings. I believe he was rational enough to think that he was not going to be able to complete this goal within his lifetime, but he thought he would be able to establish a "Third Reich" consisting of Europe and all of Russia in which the "Aryan race" would be the master race within his lifetime. Inferior races would be enslaved and the "Aryan race" would produce babies on an industrial scale and others would carry his vision forward after his demise, with the eventual enslavement of all not deemd "Aryan" and probably, in his mind, ultimately exterminated from the Eath until only the superior race remains.

Safe to say that is not a rational end goal but a totally batshit crazy one. :P

Aryan didn't mean all northern European, it was alot more complex than that, he had a heirachy of sub races that placed Germans specifically on top brits were an admirable mongrels being a mix of germanic, norse and celtic warrior races in his eyes for example but still lower than pure Germans, slavs of Eastern Europe and Russia occupyed the lowest position in Europe just above Jews in his view.

The invasion of Russia was with the end goal of culling and suppressing the slavs

But this is well in the banned subjects list so let's stop there.

[Enthusiastic Steward]

I mean, that's not a very good argument, considering that's what a lot of conquerors do. It's simply far easier on logistics, personnel, and maintains stability.

It is possible they meant an initial goal wasn't to take France (beyond perhaps Alsace-Lorraine) but when the war expanded was forced to.

But this is well in the banned subjects list so let's stop there.

Not without bringing up that according to Nazi racial theory Persians (Iranians) fell under the Aryan umbrella. How come none of these white supremacists you see in the news are embracing their Persian brothers?

[Monster Hunter]

What victory? When someone's building an empire, they don't just suddenly stop and say this is enough.


Is that why he took France etc.?

Wasn't part of his original goals, he didn't intend to have a war with Britain and France, thats why initially he set up Vichy France.

He belived he could avoid the war with France and Britain based on our tacitit approval to his invasion of Czechoslovakia. Prior to invading Poland which started the war we had let him reinvade all of the rhineland and Alot of the old prussian territory's.

[enigma77]

To make Germany a strong and proud nation again, regain lost territories and avenge the treaty of Versailles.

[Kokolums]

Hitler wanted to establish the "Aryan race" as the master race because he believed Northern European White people to be genetically superior to all other human beings. I believe he was rational enough to think that he was not going to be able to complete this goal within his lifetime, but he thought he would be able to establish a "Third Reich" consisting of Europe and all of Russia in which the "Aryan race" would be the master race within his lifetime. Inferior races would be enslaved and the "Aryan race" would produce babies on an industrial scale and others would carry his vision forward after his demise, with the eventual enslavement of all not deemd "Aryan" and probably, in his mind, ultimately exterminated from the Eath until only the superior race remains.

Safe to say that is not a rational end goal but a totally batshit crazy one. :P

Its also a common one. For example, China is VERY racist against blacks. Many view them as outright savages. When China becomes the world superpower in the 21st century, I'd give it fair odds they make an attempt at exterminating the black race. I mean hell, they let the Tibetans burn and have done everything but commit genocide against them. China is also really really upset at how the left in America keeps pushing black culture worldwide. If America destabilizes and fall into civil war, China will join with Russia and help the alt right win as basically nations are lining up with beefs against the democrats and the left in the US.

[Enthusiastic Steward]

To make Germany a strong and proud nation again, regain lost territories and avenge the treaty of Versailles.

And expand Germany eastward, pushing out or otherwise displacing the Slavic populations. This was a core element of his plan and the Nazi agenda, you don't get to leave it off the list because it is inconvenient.

[zorkuus]

Wasn't part of his original goals, he didn't intend to have a war with Britain and France, thats why initially he set up Vichy France.

That's wrong. He did intend to take france but felt Germany wasn't ready for it yet (turns out he was wrong). France declaring war on Germany after they invaded Poland forced them to make their move earlier than intended.