Did Hitler have any rational end goals?

[Has lost its way]

Well it is only rational if you accept the science they used to come to their conclusions in terms of hilter's personal ideology. That said the way the nazi party went about it was monstrous.

If you are talking about tactics... if he simply bribed the soviets and dealt with the allies before turning on them I doubt he would of been stopped from uniting all of Europe.

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Pretty sure America didn't single-handedly win the war by themselves.

Pretty close to it... that isn't to say they did so through some massive strategic victory. They simply had massive amounts of fresh troops to deploy on a tired and wounded enemy.

[Shadowsgrace]

That's like asking if Charles Manson had any Rational end goals.

[Enthusiastic Steward]

Yeah IIRC, Eisenhower wanted to be able to move tanks efficiently in the event the Soviets invaded.

And also have roads that would be capable of being used as emergency runways for bombers/troop carriers.

[Machismo]

It is possible they meant an initial goal wasn't to take France (beyond perhaps Alsace-Lorraine) but when the war expanded was forced to.


Not without bringing up that according to Nazi racial theory Persians (Iranians) fell under the Aryan umbrella. How come none of these white supremacists you see in the news are embracing their Persian brothers?

And it's still giving him far too much benefit of the doubt.

[Independent voter]

His plan was to create an Autarky. that is a nation state that internally has all the raw material it needs for domestic production and is not reliant on exports . Thats why he invaded Russia. Its was a both an ideological war and a war for resources. You of course know the battles for Moscow Leningrad and Stalingrad but few people realise why these battles where so important.

Leningrad: if the Leningrad had fallen the Germans would have direct shot to the railway to moermansk which received the land-lease supplies from the allies
Moscow: Had Moscow fallen then the logistical heart of the soviet union would have been ripped out preventing them from supplying an reinforcing their fronts
Stalingrad : if the front at Stalingrad had held the fall of Baku would be inevitable and Baku produced 90% of the oil for the soviet union.

if these 3 objectives were met the red army would have no choice but the retreat back over the Ural mountains. At that point it would become pointless for the Americans and British to continue the war. So Hitlers goal was not unrealistic but how he went about it was just fucking stupid.

This is interesting to me.

It's like when you play the game "Civilization" and you get tired of trying to trade with other civs so you conquer enough land to be self sufficient. I can see that.

In the real world, trading would be much, much easier than conquering people and taking their land. You wouldn't have 100% control of your resources though, which I guess was Hitler's goal, having complete control. Hitler sounds like a control freak.

[Calfredd]

Pretty close to it... that isn't to say they did so through some massive strategic victory. They simply had massive amounts of fresh troops to deploy on a tired and wounded enemy.

That's not "pretty close to it" then, that's more like that little bit of extra weight needed to tip the scales. Plus my point was America wasn't the only one on the winning side so why bring up 3 America-specific wars?

[Queen of Hamsters]

Pretty sure America didn't single-handedly win the war by themselves.

This, even if many Americans like to believe (and have been led to believe) just that.

Alan Turings work alone shortened the war by approximately 2 years, leading to countless lives saved. And he was no American.
The point is that nothing's been glossed over, the facts of Hitler's motivations are all out in the open, not kept under lid. Hell, that's why some groups can still worship his efforts.

[Enthusiastic Steward]

And it's still giving him far too much benefit of the doubt.

Whatever, you don't know. Next you're going to be telling me Hitler invaded Greece.

<.< >.>

[Adam Jensen]

This is interesting to me.

It's like when you play the game "Civilization" and you get tired of trying to trade with other civs so you conquer enough land to be self sufficient. I can see that.

In the real world, trading would be much, much easier than conquering people and taking their land. You wouldn't have 100% control of your resources though, which I guess was Hitler's goal, having complete control. Hitler sounds like a control freak.

He actually kind of was a control freak, demanding his generals run the war his way. They lost, in part, because Hitler kept micromanaging.

[cparle87]

True, but even early on the stated goals went beyond reclaiming previously German lands and moving into the breadbasket of the East, specifically the ethnically Polish parts of the Polish state (which Hitler considered illegitimate), Ukraine, and Belarus.



I like that the Autobahn and the US Interstate system were both designed/heavily influenced as a military application.

Lots of useful inventions got their starts, or at least became widespread in the civilian sector, as a result of military development. Helicopters and jeeps for two.

[Adam Jensen]

Pretty sure America didn't single-handedly win the war by themselves.

Indeed. We couldn't have done it alone. D-Day would have likely been impossible if Germany wasn't concurrently fighting the Soviets. Had Hitler kept his pact with Stalin, his Reich might still exist today. But that's mostly speculation. Not to mention when D-Day happened, it was a combined effort with the British, Canadians and Americans. America gets a bit more attention because Omaha Beach was a bloodbath (due to night time bombardments failing to cause much damage to the pillboxes in the sector) but Overlord would not have happened without the combined efforts of everyone involved.

The only nation that might have won that war without outside help was the USSR. They were relentless. But they were also receiving needed goods from the Allies, so perhaps alone they would have run out of steam long before reaching Berlin.

Point is though, credit for an allied victory cannot go to just one nation.

[Has lost its way]

That's not "pretty close to it" then, that's more like that little bit of extra weight needed to tip the scales. Plus my point was America wasn't the only one on the winning side so why bring up 3 America-specific wars?

If we are talking boots on the ground winning the war in Europe the USA and the Soviets are why the nazi's were defeated. The rest of the allied forces where effectively crushed by the time the two super powers took the stage.

[Enthusiastic Steward]

Lots of useful inventions got their starts, or at least became widespread in the civilian sector, as a result of military development. Helicopters and jeeps for two.

Jets, rockets, etc etc, I am aware the list is extensive.

Point is though, credit for an allied victory cannot go to just one nation.

False. Full credit goes to Uruguay. Without their declaration of war on the Axis in Feb. of 1945 the conflict would still likely be raging to this day.

[deenman]

hitlers end goal was basicaly economics,there is a rly good video on youtube called ''The REAL Reason why Hitler HAD to start WW2'' on a channel called TIK,its amazing more hsitory books dont mention these reasons

[OriginalName]

He actually kind of was a control freak, demanding his generals run the war his way. They lost, in part, because Hitler kept micromanaging.

It's way more nuanced than that, hitlers meddling at the start of the war was positive or kept to a minimum, it wasnt until it was discovered that his generals, commanders had outright lied, fabricated orders from him that he stepped in way more.

[Acidz]

Yes, Endlösung.

[Najnaj]

Pretty close to it... that isn't to say they did so through some massive strategic victory. They simply had massive amounts of fresh troops to deploy on a tired and wounded enemy.

You have been watching too many Hollywood movies. The US did a fair bit and so did the Brits but the real hero of WW2 was Stalin's Russia and I use the word hero very loosely. If a single country can be credited with breaking the Germans, The Soviet Union would be it. They did it with a total disregard for all that is good and their own people but they did it.

[Acidz]

hitlers end goal was basicaly economics,there is a rly good video on youtube called ''The REAL Reason why Hitler HAD to start WW2'' on a channel called TIK,its amazing more hsitory books dont mention these reasons

He makes some good videos, but that video was nonsense. Germany wasn't the only industrialized county facing economic hardship. Did other countries also HAVE to start a world war? Also the means seem rather disproportionate for the supposed goal.

[Has lost its way]

You have been watching too many Hollywood movies. The US did a fair bit and so did the Brits but the real hero of WW2 was Stalin's Russia and I use the word hero very loosely. If a single country can be credited with breaking the Germans, The Soviet Union would be it. They did it with a total disregard for all that is good and their own people but they did it.

I can agree with this.

[Adam Jensen]

He makes some good videos, but that video was nonsense. Germany wasn't the only industrialized county facing economic hardship. Did other countries also HAVE to start a world war? Also the means seem rather disproportionate for the supposed goal.

Economics was a part of it. Iron ore in Sweden is why he invaded Norway. Oil in North Africa and the Caucuses is why the North Africa campaign and the Stalingrad occupation occured.

But it most definitely wasn't the whole story. He also wanted to bring glory back to a people he thought were shamed by the Treaty of Verseilles. When Germany surrendered in WW1, their army was still on French soil. Many German soldiers, Hitler included, believed the war could still be won and believed they were "stabbed in the back" by the German government. They also believed Germany was unfairly treated by the victors of WWI, notably the French who demanded they pay reparations, while also crippling their economy. They were slightly right, as Austria didn't get nearly as much blame for that war as they deserved, since Austria started it, but it was Germany who pushed for it the most in 1914 so . . . Hitler wanted to bring Germany back to its glory days.

And of course, there was also the fucked up xenophobia/genocidal aspect of it. Hitler believed in the superiority of the German people. He hated the Poles occupying what he thought belonged to Prussia and wanted them gone. He wanted a Germany for Germans where the "untermenschen" couldn't betray Germany again (he viewed them as being responsible for Germany's loss in WW1 and it's economic devastation in the 20s and 30s.) He wanted to remove these people and repopulate those lands with real Germans.

Economic hardship was a part of it but not remotely the whole story.