Has Mythic finally reached a point of, nope..

[trm90]

the problem with CoS is the timing, not the difficulty. it is 100% not too hard, the reason your guild can't do it, and i'm sorry to say it but this is 100% true, is because you aren't skilled enough for it. reading some of your other posts jaina took your guild more than double the attempts of guilds that did it when the boss had ~15% more health, harder mechanic lineups, an unkillable elemental. CoS was honestly pretty well tuned (although it's disappointing that the prenerf version of uu'nat was not available long enough for 4 night guilds to kill) and that especially goes for now. Clearing M jaina and BoD now is essentially akin to a heroic guild that managed to admirably stick to their guns long enough to push through, but the difficulty in CoS is similar to the Jaina that peole early saw, ~404-408 ilvl with 15% more health. it's a challenge for people who want a challenge. if CoS had been released at the difficulty it did at the same time as BoD with a disclaimer on it "this is intended for long after jaina is done when you have a lot of gear" it would've been lauded as a good idea challenge mode raid that people have 4-5 months to work on.

Completely agree with this, especially since most of BoD wasn't too difficult apart from Jaina. My guild's still on Cabal progression but it's a much more fun fight than I thought. We only have 2 locks, 1 Ele Shaman, 1 Balance Druid, and 0 SPriests and our DPS isn't an issue tbh.

Most of the people who've cleared Cabal and/or Uu'nat will agree that they're actually pretty fun fights, but the discussion about CoS should really surround its timing and how it's burning out players. For the other world 500+ guilds who killed Jaina like a month ago, it is absolutely massive burnout. Cabal and Uu'nat take 500+ wipes combined, it's just exhausting to go from Jaina to CoS.

Also, I'm actually genuinely sad I won't get to see mythic Uu'nat, it's such a waste cause the fight looks really fun. Hoping they can find a way to implement these mini-tiers in a more logical way.

[KaPe]

That aside, the world first races are taking next to no time compared to what they used to take. Some of the really old bosses took 2+ months to die after the second to last boss was killed, let alone the raids release dates.

C'tun took 113 days from the launch of the raid until its death. That's almost 4 months for the, and I can't state this enough, first kill of the boss. If a boss takes 3 weeks now for Mythic it's considered a long time and over-tuned.

What a load of shit. Uu'nat has received multiple hotfixes during progress and it's the only reason he died in such a "short" time - if at all.

The same is true for Kil'jaeden back in ToS - did you even see the unofficial list of nerfs posted by Method? It would take Antorus gear to kill him and even then he'd be a challenging encounter ... or impossible, who knows.

C'thun was just a bugged mess that didn't work properly. If Blizzard was actually hotfixing stuff as needed, he'd be easily killed by the top guilds. Which is the exact thing that happened after the patch. Funny how enemies not spawning in walls makes a boss actually killable, eh? Imagine if Uu'nat/Cabal adds that you need to interrupt would spawn in an unreachable area - boss becomes impossible and yet it has nothing to do with difficulty.

Overall though, it's the player base that's reached a point of hopelessness; hopelessness that they're willing to put in even the least bit of effort to obtain the highest end things, instead demanding instant gratification and "reward".

Bullshit narrative, typical "people are so spoiled nowadays, C'thun was SO hard, we were actually willing to work for our gear". And you'll be proven wrong once Classic is released and bosses get crushed immediately.

[PaladinBash]

My guild never bothered when it came out as we were still on M Jaina at the time. We still haven't bothered with it since killing her as it's of no interest to us. I'm sure after multiple nerfs, it's easy enough to do but nobody really wanted to bother with it but that was just us. I don't really know how this shit is because we just did it once on Heroic to see it and never touched it again.

[erifwodahs]

It's because the new tier is soon and getting CE is unlikely before that. If it was boss 10and boss 11 in BoD, it would be OK

[kamuimac]

So last night we finally got our mythic Jaina kill. Pretty excited about it and all. But someone mentioned casually, "ok, mythic CoS now".

And pretty much the entire raid said nope, fuck that shit, we're just reclearing BoD and waiting for 8.2. I mean 19 other mythic level raiders who are as of less night in the top 500 guilds for the US on BoD literally noped out of CoS and have no intention of ever touching that raid.

Has Blizzard finally overturned a raid to such a degree (initially) that it's discouraging people from even making the attempt? I kind of feel if they don't get their raid testing teams up to snuff this could really hurt the mythic raiding scene :/

it reached this point 5-6 years ago.

now its just such a shitshow to cater to top 1 % thats its ridicule of what mmorpg should be.

[Battlebeard]

So last night we finally got our mythic Jaina kill. Pretty excited about it and all. But someone mentioned casually, "ok, mythic CoS now".

And pretty much the entire raid said nope, fuck that shit, we're just reclearing BoD and waiting for 8.2. I mean 19 other mythic level raiders who are as of less night in the top 500 guilds for the US on BoD literally noped out of CoS and have no intention of ever touching that raid.

Has Blizzard finally overturned a raid to such a degree (initially) that it's discouraging people from even making the attempt? I kind of feel if they don't get their raid testing teams up to snuff this could really hurt the mythic raiding scene :/

Mythic reached "nope" straight away in WoD when it was introduced (previously highest was named Heroic for a while), it became too time consuming and hardcore to be played by anyone who want to play healthy. I don't wanna judge people, but to me, playing more than 2 hours a day is not healthy.

[Thelxi]

Like PvP gear, mythic raiding rewards have also taken a hit to facilitate the gambling meta. If the gear in CoS was on par with say Sinestra's rewards, people would be tripping over themselves to continue progression. There is just no way to fit everything in the current reward systems; something had to give.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Well, CoD did show which guilds are worthy to call themselves Mythic. At least pre-nerf.

But it's no wonder if people Nope out of progressing a 2-boss raid with lackluster rewards after having progressed on and killed a full raid already. CoD is clearly made for those guilds that had lots of time to spare between the release of BoD Mythic, and 8.2.

- - - Updated - - -

Mythic reached "nope" straight away in WoD when it was introduced (previously highest was named Heroic for a while), it became too time consuming and hardcore to be played by anyone who want to play healthy. I don't wanna judge people, but to me, playing more than 2 hours a day is not healthy.

And that's why there's a choice.

You might think more than 2 hours is unhealthy, others might feel differently and they can choose to play the game as they please.

[Osmeric]

Well, CoD did show which guilds are worthy to call themselves Mythic. At least pre-nerf.

And CoD also showed that supporting the guilds that are "truly mythic" is a dumb thing for Blizzard to want to do, because there are so few of them.

Let's see if these engagement numbers percolate up the management chain and Kotick has some words with the WoW leads.

[Queen of Hamsters]

And CoD also showed that supporting the guilds that are "truly mythic" is a dumb thing for Blizzard to want to do, because there are so few of them.

Let's see if these engagement numbers percolate up the management chain and Kotick has some words with the WoW leads.

If they keep making these small, filler raids, it's probably because they see engagement that's satisfactory. CoD isn't JUST Mythic difficulty, let's not forget.

[Ealyssa]

Mythic reached "nope" straight away in WoD when it was introduced (previously highest was named Heroic for a while)

You understand it wasn't "introduced" at all right ? That heroic was just renamed so that flex could be named "normal", right ?

Mythic IS the old heroic.

[Kaver]

So last night we finally got our mythic Jaina kill. Pretty excited about it and all. But someone mentioned casually, "ok, mythic CoS now".

And pretty much the entire raid said nope, fuck that shit, we're just reclearing BoD and waiting for 8.2. I mean 19 other mythic level raiders who are as of less night in the top 500 guilds for the US on BoD literally noped out of CoS and have no intention of ever touching that raid.

Has Blizzard finally overturned a raid to such a degree (initially) that it's discouraging people from even making the attempt? I kind of feel if they don't get their raid testing teams up to snuff this could really hurt the mythic raiding scene :/

Since it's only a small 2-boss raid I think it is okay that it's really hardcore. You should just view it as "extra bonus content" in my opinion. If you don't complete it, then it's no big deal.

[Osmeric]

If they keep making these small, filler raids, it's probably because they see engagement that's satisfactory. CoD isn't JUST Mythic difficulty, let's not forget.

N and H engagement are down also (although not as much), both in number of guilds that have downed bosses, and likely also in # of runs per guild that have.

[Battlebeard]

You understand it wasn't "introduced" at all right ? That heroic was just renamed so that flex could be named "normal", right ?

Mythic IS the old heroic.

Only by name, they buffed the difficulty up alot.
You may think it was just renamed:
Heroic became Mythic
Normal became Heroic
Flex became Normal

But nope, it also because ALOT harder than it was before. Compare old Flex mode with todays normal. Sure todays normal isnt super hard, but its much harder than flex was. Flex was closer to LFR, super easy. Same with todays Heroic. Todays heroic is ALOT harder than old normal. Same with todays mythic, its MUCH harder than old heroic.

So its not just a name change, but also a difficulty increase.

[TOM_RUS]

Has Blizzard finally overturned a raid to such a degree (initially) that it's discouraging people from even making the attempt?

It's still very overtuned. We are at around 300 pulls on cabal, but this boss is supposed to be Rasta/Mekka (those only took us 38 and 90 pulls) in diffuculty.

This raid needs very huge nerfs still...

[KaPe]

It's still very overtuned. We are at around 300 pulls on cabal, but this boss is supposed to be Rasta/Mekka (those only took us 38 and 90 pulls) in diffuculty.

This raid needs very huge nerfs still...

They won't bother with any nerfs at this point. We'll be getting essences in a week and after that, the raid will be dead forever. Which appearently suits Blizzard just fine, so... eh...

And I don't know how someone could compare Cabal to Mekka. As it is now, they're harder than Jaina - and unlike her, the difficulty doesn't drop after you make it past first phase. It's a long fight, filled with tons of nasty stuff that can and will murder you many times, until you finally squeeze a kill and either abandon the place for good or keep extending. Because farming them is both difficult and pointless.

[Spotnick]

Reminds me of Conclave of Winds a bit since it's 2 bosses only with weird loot.. we pretty much did Al'akir for the achieve and never went back again.

Blizzard was expecting people to stop doing BFD, but they forgot the one stupid mistake they did.. there is no skip in the raid, so people can't farm Jaina for the mount easily and then go in COS.

Imagine now if Mythic U'unat was dropping gear upgrades to put your loot from BFD to 425.. people would farm the shit out of it... it's really the gear that makes it uninteresting for most people.

[Queen of Hamsters]

N and H engagement are down also (although not as much), both in number of guilds that have downed bosses, and likely also in # of runs per guild that have.

Which is perfectly normal considering we've had such a long period of time between 8.1 and 8.2.
They've got access to actual figures though, and if especially LFR participation is high, they'll keep adding these filler raids. And they can't release one difficulty without the others. Imagine the screeching if they did.

[Soluna]

So last night we finally got our mythic Jaina kill. Pretty excited about it and all. But someone mentioned casually, "ok, mythic CoS now".

And pretty much the entire raid said nope, fuck that shit, we're just reclearing BoD and waiting for 8.2. I mean 19 other mythic level raiders who are as of less night in the top 500 guilds for the US on BoD literally noped out of CoS and have no intention of ever touching that raid.

Has Blizzard finally overturned a raid to such a degree (initially) that it's discouraging people from even making the attempt? I kind of feel if they don't get their raid testing teams up to snuff this could really hurt the mythic raiding scene :/

Top 500 on US guilds means nothing. You are like 1365 world.

As for Crucible, yes, it's a tiring raid.

[A Chozo]

And pretty much the entire raid said nope, fuck that shit, we're just reclearing BoD and waiting for 8.2.

I mean, replace "the entire raid" with "the overwhelming majority of players" and you have WoW playerbase's reaction to Mythic Raiding as a whole.

In this case, it just hit your threshold.

But it's by design. It's not overtuned, it's just hard as fuck.