Can Democracy Survive The Tantrum from the Illiberal Right?

[smityx]

We'll find out in a few years. If Trump is ousted or loses the 2020 election and he starts crying foul and rousing his base to fight and take back your country from the "commie socialist mooselamb mexican kenyan deep state hate the US libruls" before they put us in vacant walmart basement FEMA camps and take our guns and our jerbs during the next Jade Helm.

[Gestopft]

They're pretty good at losing arguments when it comes to the "culture war," so not sure why anyone would think that it's their secret weapon. If anything it's the one area that they consistently lose ground on.

But the GoP doesn't win any elections by appealing to their policy platform, which is largely unpopular. They make a tribal appeal, mostly on culture war issues. Sure they lose ground overall, but then they move on to new battlegrounds. When Bush 43 was running for re-election, gay marriage was a big issue. Now it's transgenderism and intersectionality, but the strategy is the same: the Conservative base, by and large, gets fired up on social issues. America is still leans slightly conservative on social issues, so one of the major GoP strategies is to put those front and center.

[PC2]

No, it isn't. Social Democrats are a thing.

Social democracy is built on top of capitalism, so I count that as just another form of liberalism.

[PC2]

It really isn't. The liberals suck companies dicks and try to remove protections, social democrats slaps companies in the face and regulate them when they try to fuck people over. Liberals are right wing, social Democrats are left wing. Social democrats are why we have a welfare system, liberals would dismantle it if they could and sell schools, hospitals and so on.to the highest bidder.

Okay I'm saying if the welfare system is paid for with taxes from the private sector and private means of production then it's based on capitalism. The size of the private sector dictates the budget of the welfare program. That's how Western countries work now.

[Flarelaine]

Let's use Alabama and their abortion issue which is currently in the news.

If Alabama voters want to ban abortions, should we force them to allow abortions?

If Alabama voters don't want abortions, they should not get one.

[Nihilist74]

Social democrats introduced universal right to vote for everyone. Poor people couldn't vote under the liberals rule, men had to have done military service, had to own lands/property, can't have committed crime.

To this day, they're trying to dismantle our welfare state. No universal healthcare. To this day they're trying to erode worker protections. To this day, they're trying to make it close to impossible to live if you're not rich.

I'm also not a stalinist.

That sounds like what conservatives are in America. "To this day, they're trying to dismantle our welfare state. No universal healthcare. To this day they're trying to erode worker protections. To this day, they're trying to make it close to impossible to live if you're not rich."

Is that really what a liberal is in Sweden?

[Cthulhu 2020]

So the left is a human with a stick and the right is a bear in a cage, the left pokes the right gets piss, and justifies that the bear is dangrous, evil and needs to stay locked away. Then they laugh at the silly angry bear in the cage.

If the bear would stop attacking civil liberties, and blaming it on liberals "attacking their rights" (to discriminate) this might be slightly more accurate. As it is LGBTQ, women, and minorities just want equal rights and to be left alone otherwise. The right views equal rights as an "attack" on them. I realize most right wingers on this forum like to deny that that's what conservatives are about, but in reality one only needs to look at the voting history of their representatives. It's a constant push to preserve discrimination and bigotry, and they justify it by claiming that there is a war against straight white people.

I suppose it can appear that way when your life isnt exactly easy. Everyone feels like they have a hard life, or at least lament their own troubles. It must be terrifying having your own difficulties while staring into the possibility of having just as many as those other people who stumble and struggle through life.

[Orbitus]

Wanting liberalism gone isn't racist. Anyone that's not rich should want it gone.

Liberalism has helped the world in the long run, conservatism hasn't. Liberalism got rid of slavery, liberalism got women rights, liberalism got interracial marriage legalized, gay marriage legalized, and got the USA it's independence from the English Empire.

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It has never been a women's basic right and any women believing that is an utter narcissistic little twit and im pro abortion to an extent

Banning abortion, doesn't make it go away, it just makes it go to back alley abortion clinics that aren't clean or safe and you have more women dying from failed abortions or infections from it. I don't know how you can be this delusional, but then again you are a Trump supporter, so it isn't surprising really.

[Gaidax]

Awww you're still triggered that Kevin Williamson got booted from the Atlantic. Desperately craving the validation of appearing in such an established magazine.

I hear the National Review has him write some words. Kinda like pitty welfare for a partisan crank.

He got like 12 billing on their Anti Socialism super issue this month.

Maybe if you would not go out of your way to rabidly brand and ridicule those who don't agree with you, then maybe your "liberal" view would find place with larger crowd.

This, IMO, is the problem I see with this kind of activism. The person you quoted is spot on - plainly speaking it's an echo chamber article, because apparently democracy is dead unless things go our way approach.

I'd say some people need to get a grip and realise both that ideological opponents are not necessarily a bunch of bumbling retards, while at the same time your guys have plenty of demons of their own under the hood.

[PC2]

Liberalism has helped the world in the long run, conservatism hasn't. Liberalism got rid of slavery, liberalism got women rights, liberalism got interracial marriage legalized, gay marriage legalized, and got the USA it's independence from the English Empire.

Yes but not in the sense that "liberalism can tell us what is good". It's more so that conservatism is retarded because it's based on the idea of that cultural traditions and past memes are correct so we should keep repeating them forever. Progress is literally the opposite of conservatism, it's about proving that everything that people believe now is wrong.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Yes but not in the sense that "liberalism can tell us what is good". It's more so that conservatism is retarded because it's based on the idea of that cultural traditions and past memes are correct so we should keep repeating them forever. Progress is literally the opposite of conservatism, it's about proving that everything that people believe now is wrong.

"Everything" is wrong? Man, liberals are telling you to stop pooping sitting down, stop eating 3 meals a day, stop driving your car racing forward, stop going to school, stop paying for cable TV, stop eating ice cream? Man, liberals really are ruining the world! In your imagination of course.

[PC2]

"Everything" is wrong? Man, liberals are telling you to stop pooping sitting down, stop eating 3 meals a day, stop driving your car racing forward, stop going to school, stop paying for cable TV, stop eating ice cream? Man, liberals really are ruining the world! In your imagination of course.

I mean in terms of ideology and how we think the world works. But even for the things you listed i'm sure there is a better way to go poo, eat, and drive. Cable TV is already obsolete due to the internet. There certainly is a better way to get educated then our current schooling, it is far too structured and stifles creativity. Kids should have more of a choice in terms of pursuing their academic interest instead of being forced to all take the same classes.

[Felya]

I mean in terms of ideology and how we think the world works. But even for the things you listed i'm sure there is a better way to go poo, eat, and drive. Cable TV is already obsolete due to the internet. There certainly is a better way to get educated then our current schooling, it is far too structured and stifles creativity. Kids should have more of a choice in terms of pursuing their academic interest instead of being forced to all take the same classes.

The bold is higher education. Education for kids is to establish fundamentals, which they then can apply to what ever field they are interested in, as young adults. The issue with teaching with the same curriculum, is not about needing more specialized classes.

That’s also the political conflict. You need fundamentals (right) to have a justified way to progress (left).

[Saucexorzski]

If the bear would stop attacking civil liberties, and blaming it on liberals "attacking their rights" (to discriminate) this might be slightly more accurate. As it is LGBTQ, women, and minorities just want equal rights and to be left alone otherwise. The right views equal rights as an "attack" on them. I realize most right wingers on this forum like to deny that that's what conservatives are about, but in reality one only needs to look at the voting history of their representatives. It's a constant push to preserve discrimination and bigotry, and they justify it by claiming that there is a war against straight white people.

I suppose it can appear that way when your life isnt exactly easy. Everyone feels like they have a hard life, or at least lament their own troubles. It must be terrifying having your own difficulties while staring into the possibility of having just as many as those other people who stumble and struggle through life.

Oh it's not top terrifying yet, its just another hardship i expect to face. What's terrifyingly is that the left is most definitely shaping up to be the very some monster the religious right was once they consolidate their power. I say in the 2030s will be when the retibutinary tactics of the left start becoming law. that's when it will become terrifying, not knowing if the moral police mobs will show up at your home or place of work for a simple slip up. But hey bring in your left wing utopia,your world of what fairness means. Who knows maybe this time you just stick to reeducation centers instead of killing off those that don't conform fast enough.

[Felya]

Oh it's not top terrifying yet, its just another hardship i expect to face. What's terrifyingly is that the left is most definitely shaping up to be the very some monster the religious right was once they consolidate their power. I say in the 2030s will be when the retibutinary tactics of the left start becoming law. that's when it will become terrifying, not knowing if the moral police mobs will show up at your home or place of work for a simple slip up. But hey bring in your left wing utopia,your world of what fairness means. Who knows maybe this time you just stick to reeducation centers instead of killing off those that don't conform fast enough.

Being PC at work, is already written into your contract. Have you considered forming a union, to make attacks on individual members more difficult for liberals?

[ipaq]

Keep justifying being just another fucking racist cunt.

No, it isn't. Social Democrats are a thing.

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Liberalism suck fascists dicks.

The liberals went on a political tour together with the nazi party for the EU elections. Don't tell me they're some saints.

[Saucexorzski]

Being PC at work, is already written into your contract. Have you considered forming a union, to make attacks on individual members more difficult for liberals?

Who knows what will be needed to survive, if in an ironic twist of fate, maybe right wing folks will have to do so.

[Themius]

How does one explain to a Stalinist that;

Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on liberty, consent of the governed, and equality before the law. Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but they generally support limited government, individual rights (including civil rights and human rights), capitalism (free markets), democracy, secularism, gender equality, racial equality, internationalism, freedom of speech, freedom of the press and freedom of religion.

Instead try to spin it into Lockean and take into account the romantic period because for some people for whom thinking is... just tiresome work, liberal in any sense is a bad bad dirty word! They don't even care what the definition is.

[Phon]

Keep justifying being just another fucking racist cunt.

Any proof of said racism or are you just another person who calls others racist because you don't like what they say?

[Themius]

Let's use Alabama and their abortion issue which is currently in the news.

If Alabama voters want to ban abortions, should we force them to allow abortions?

What good is democracy if the voters in a large state like Alabama can't use the power of the ballot box to shape the laws in the way they see fit?

And they don't even want to ban abortion 100%, they just want to restrict it. Keep in mind that nearly every state in the union restricts abortion in some way.

Let Alabama democracy do what the voters want to do.

And don't bring up "what if they want to allow slavery?" On the scale of things the national government should get involved in, slavery is a 10, abortion isn't even a 1. 10 being something the fed should definitely get involved in.

slim
1. Alabama doesn't want to though a majority want to keep it.

2. Alabama is not a self governing state, if they want to be I would say let them go, watch them crash and burn.

3. A good democracy doesn't allow restriction of rights depending on where you are. If Alabama votes to bring back slavery should be brought up and abortion is not below a 1 what the fuck?

4. What is Alabama wanted to bring back Jim Crow laws, what if they vote to take away suffrage from women?

5. They don't want to ban it, they just want to restrict it to the point where it is impossible to get one.

Figure out how our type of government works, and then come back to the conversation.

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Unpopular opinion, we need to go back to a sort of elitist voting system. But instead of money being what makes you elite, it's your level of understanding of government, education and general knowledge all factor in.

So to put it differently, people who bother to inform themselves properly get 10 votes, people who get all their news from propaganda channels like Fox news get 1.

Or we could instead of a parliamentary system and hope they pick the best among them.

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Oh it's not top terrifying yet, its just another hardship i expect to face. What's terrifyingly is that the left is most definitely shaping up to be the very some monster the religious right was once they consolidate their power. I say in the 2030s will be when the retibutinary tactics of the left start becoming law. that's when it will become terrifying, not knowing if the moral police mobs will show up at your home or place of work for a simple slip up. But hey bring in your left wing utopia,your world of what fairness means. Who knows maybe this time you just stick to reeducation centers instead of killing off those that don't conform fast enough.

It seems to be the right is infatuated with being assholes and then not have any consequences for said assholery.

"I gotta be PC at work oh god" um... what work place doesn't already have this policy? Why are the right attacking the very concept of respect?

The right was busy trying to take away rights, what would the left do when in power? There is no one saying to pass laws to control speech so this is a fear you've pulled out of your ass.