[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[Reforge]

You don't ban all hammers just b/c some drunk moron clubbed another person with one.

Absolutely this. It can be a VERY useful tool in determining your own performance and help you to strive for better play

[Granyala]

Was he competent? Fuck no. He sucked, but when I see "shitty players" I always think it could be a guy like that, just playing to have some fun, and trying their best with what they have available, but sadly people are too quick to start screeching "KICK!" and "SHIT PLAYER GIT GUD!" rather than maybe work on the assumption that they are doing their best, but aren't able to.

If people had a similar experience, they might be a little more patient.

I do not kick you from a dungeon just because you play bad. As long as the content can be completed relatively pain free I don't give a shit, even if we wipe once or twice. It happens.

I will kick you if you are holding the group back and are the reason that we cannot kill a boss, after I try to help you. I hate kicking people. So I always try to make it work first. With more challenging bosses, there is a limit to the patience they allow.

Your friend surely would not venture into savage or extreme raiding, knowing that his performance would essentially make the boss unkillable. That is basic human decency and logical thinking. I would never venture into ultimate b/c judging from my savage performance I am obviously not good enough.

Sadly, not everyone does that and many a crappy player is looking for freebies. That's the point at which parsers are a useful filter b/c not every crappy player is an obvious ice mage.

As I stated earlier: it is extremely rare that I kick people. I can probably count the # that weren't offline in 5(?) years of playing on one hand.
So um: no. I am not some "impatient WoW crybaby" with an itchy trigger finger and a superiority complex.

[Tinytalon]

Such a load of utter drivel.


Had you known the slightest thing about FF14, you would know the core bulk of the game isn't about optimal rotation or such, but in mechanics. You learn them, dps is secondary believe it or not. All dungeons and raids have a timer for completion. That is the content limit. Not how fast the boss dies.

Also every raid has a hard gear limit for using the Duty Finder (and you need to use Duty Finder to complete the MSQ/Quests, not unsyncing/cheesing allowed). The reason SE is very anti dps meters etc, is literally because of the nonsense you just spouted about "People need to play!". They don't. Yoshi P said a few times now, that FF14 is a multi-player FF game, and not to be viewed as some kind of competitive MMO style "Imma best!" epeen stroking game.


Piss off back to WoW, please.

Had you ever done Savage, or even Extreme mode bosses in this game, you'd know DPS actually DOES matter. I used to raid mythic and old heroic in WoW, but also Savage in FFXIV. The DPS checks feel a lot tighter in FF than they ever did in WoW.

But if this is your attitude about it, spend no time wondering why people don't want to do any content higher than normal mode with you.

[Onikaroshi]

I do not kick you from a dungeon just because you play bad. As long as the content can be completed relatively pain free I don't give a shit, even if we wipe once or twice. It happens.

I will kick you if you are holding the group back and are the reason that we cannot kill a boss, after I try to help you. I hate kicking people. So I always try to make it work first. With more challenging bosses, there is a limit to the patience they allow.

Your friend surely would not venture into savage or extreme raiding, knowing that his performance would essentially make the boss unkillable. That is basic human decency and logical thinking. I would never venture into ultimate b/c judging from my savage performance I am obviously not good enough.

Sadly, not everyone does that and many a crappy player is looking for freebies. That's the point at which parsers are a useful filter b/c not every crappy player is an obvious ice mage.

As I stated earlier: it is extremely rare that I kick people. I can probably count the # that weren't offline in 5(?) years of playing on one hand.
So um: no. I am not some "impatient WoW crybaby" with an itchy trigger finger and a superiority complex.

I actually haven't really kicked anyone who wasn't AFK or DC'd in a very long time either, usually they're not THAT bad, but you do read stories on occasion of the perfect storm of shit player.

More then anything lately its been AFKs, god so many AFKS... if you don't have the time because of whatever, kids, food, laundry, etc, don't queue for randoms.

[Ifeanychukwu]

I've been parked at the main city aetherytes for over a week now trying to find a large house. It's really the only thing I want in game right now but I feel like I'm going to lose my mind before I even see one become available lol.

[Onikaroshi]

I've been parked at the main city aetherytes for over a week now trying to find a large house. It's really the only thing I want in game right now but I feel like I'm going to lose my mind before I even see one become available lol.

Good luck, those things never become available.

[Tinytalon]

Nice attitude.
I was talking about Duty Finder, not fricking extreme modes. But sure, find any excuse to try to feel superior because your argument holds no water beyond ego stroking.

What I don't understand about you is that you claim something, then people call out instances where you are simply wrong, then you proceed to snap at people. AND go on to whine how other people's behavior is shit. Maybe it's time to take a look in the mirror. But you do you, tbf.

[The Oblivion]

if i buy a level boost is there something like a tutorial?


i want to play a Dark Knight and dont want to do 3 months of story quest befor the addon.. i heard i can get a level boost and a story skip thing , would it be worth it or will i be lost as new player?

there is no tutorial, buts its super easy to figure out. I did the story boost and grinded dungeons to level. But if you boost job as well, you will still have no problem. Its not complicated at all and if you have ever played an MMO, its all the same shit

- - - Updated - - -

And this is nothing to do with Trust system?
Some people are just bad, yes, but as SE thinks, they pay their sub, the dungeon has a literal hard time limit, and that is that. Don't have time for the 90mins the dungeon is set for? Don't queue.
Do I like it? Nope. But arguing otherwise is just asinine. It isn't changing anytime soon.

(For the record, I hate crappy players, have died as a tank so many times to healers who spam one ability, dps who seem intellectually impaired/lazy, but that is what the hard time limit is there for).

nah ill just kick the shitters and be out in 15m.

[Katchii]

It’s not farming if you just casually level up your alts through HoH

Very true. If you're going to be doing HoH anyway to level alts, it's not bad at all.

Except everything you have said here is completely against what SE and Yoshi P want for their game. Kicking someone for not being "Good enough" to beat the dungeon timer fast enough to your thinking, is not a group mentality they wish to foster, so am sorry to say, you are in there wrong here, regardless of how *right* you may wish to be.

Don't want people maybe taking the limit nor wish to run the risk? Don't use things like the Duty Finder then I am afraid, everything you have just listed in that regard is pious rambling.

I'm not about to foster anyone in my group that makes a ~15-30 minute (and even 30 is pushing it) dungeon take the full 90 minute timer, that's ludicrous. I'm not even sure that's possible, so long as the tank stays alive.

But to summarize, you're OK with allowing people to perform so badly that it literally holds a group back from completing the content? But me saying I feel that level of play is harassment against the other 3+ players for wasting time is what's not a group mentality? I think you have your wires crossed there.

One opinion supports one person purposely holding a group back, while the other is in full support of the group completing the objective and the one that supports the individual holding the group back is the one you're advocating is the healthy group mentality? GTFO.

Remember though, the "good enough" part is secondary, it's the effect that level of play has on the other members of the group. A player could auto attack and do better than that. If you can and do improve and are willing to take criticism and learn from your mistakes that's a whole other story, it's when that level of play is deliberate and unwilling to change. That's when it becomes harassment, because then it's intentional.

If they're honestly trying their best, you can tell. In my experience there's a big difference in people actually TRYING and just doing a bad job, and people simply performing badly. The numbers may be the same, but the player behavior is different. That's what matters to me. In Duty Finder anyway (which is the main topic of discussion here), higher level of content has different expectations, as you've already agreed with so I'll leave that alone.

[Onikaroshi]

Very true. If you're going to be doing HoH anyway to level alts, it's not bad at all.



I'm not about to foster anyone in my group that makes a ~15-30 minute (and even 30 is pushing it) dungeon take the full 90 minute timer, that's ludicrous. I'm not even sure that's possible, so long as the tank stays alive.

But to summarize, you're OK with allowing people to perform so badly that it literally holds a group back from completing the content? But me saying I feel that level of play is harassment against the other 3+ players for wasting time is what's not a group mentality? I think you have your wires crossed there.

One opinion supports one person purposely holding a group back, while the other is in full support of the group completing the objective and the one that supports the individual holding the group back is the one you're advocating is the healthy group mentality? GTFO.

Remember though, the "good enough" part is secondary, it's the effect that level of play has on the other members of the group. A player could auto attack and do better than that. If you can and do improve and are willing to take criticism and learn from your mistakes that's a whole other story, it's when that level of play is deliberate and unwilling to change. That's when it becomes harassment, because then it's intentional.

If they're honestly trying their best, you can tell. In my experience there's a big difference in people actually TRYING and just doing a bad job, and people simply performing badly. The numbers may be the same, but the player behavior is different. That's what matters to me. In Duty Finder anyway (which is the main topic of discussion here), higher level of content has different expectations, as you've already agreed with so I'll leave that alone.

You gotta figure too, one person pays one 15 dollar/mo sub, can that even be brought up when it's impeding on the 3 peoples 45 dollars a month and their enjoyment?

[Granyala]

Why are you even bringing up Extreme modes and such when we are discussing Group Finder tools and whatnot?

Because you can queue for them via group finder too?
Not the automated tool, IIRC but the manual one definitely goes into savage and I reckon it is there that people encounter actually problematic players that prevent progress.

You are right in a sense that it doesn't matter for dungeons but I had wipes on NORMAL primals queued from the automatic tool too.

Bismarck, as a prime example, has a hard enrage too, if the snakes don't die fast enough. Low DPS is often the cause of that.
I also wiped quite a number of times on Ravana b/c people didn't kill the adds fast enough or had such low DPS that we healers ultimately ran out of mana (heavy AoE damage, even in normal).

So your statement that "DPS doesn't matter" is still factually incorrect, even when applied to normal content. You can squirm and wind as much as you want you cannot change the facts even if the requirements are definitely more lax compared to savage/ex.

- - - Updated - - -

What I don't understand about you is that you claim something, then people call out instances where you are simply wrong, then you proceed to snap at people. AND go on to whine how other people's behavior is shit. Maybe it's time to take a look in the mirror.

Definitely.
If he behaves as aggressively in game, he is more toxic than any pro raider running a parser I've encountered in 10yrs of WoW and 5ish years of FFXIV.

- - - Updated - - -

You are talking baout things such as "holding the group back", which I have heard multiple times, but if you are being honest, what you are actually saying is "ruining my personal enjoyment of what I feel the game should be, and what I feel they should be doing to maximise my personal benefit from the game".

No, what I am actually saying is: "holding the group back".
You do not need to "psychoanalyze" what I write. I write what I mean in an as plain way as possible. No need to read between the lines because I hate that practice IRL (and royally suck at it too ).

In order for me to kick you, your performance has to be bad enough that we run into enrage mechanics and wipe. Be that low DPS or failing mechanics consistently despite advice and explanations.

As I already stated: I hate kicking players. I don't feel good about it and neither does the kicked person, so it is always a measure of last resort. I rather wait 5 minutes to see if a DC/d player comes back than immediately kicking him.

But go on and keep telling me how I am a toxic elitist because I think parsers and holding DPS players equally responsible compared to healers or tanks (b/c everyone can see and flames us when we make a mistake) is a good thing.

- - - Updated - - -

If they're honestly trying their best, you can tell. In my experience there's a big difference in people actually TRYING and just doing a bad job, and people simply performing badly. The numbers may be the same, but the player behavior is different. That's what matters to me.

Definitely.
The experienced eye spots the difference immediately.

[Onikaroshi]

I didn't claim a thing beyond basic common decency, but being MMO-C, you ignore everything else, then jump on one aspect, use hyperbole to dramatise it, then think you have something.
But yo do you, I guess.

- - - Updated - - -



So it has gone now, from basic dungeons, to Savage Raids, to people Disconnecting rather than what you actually inferred, which was that DPS need to do more, else they should be removed from a dungeon?

Keep changing those goalposts.

- - - Updated - - -




It is Duty Finder. You take the rough with the smooth, and have to accept that any and all ability levels are in the game. You don't know the reasons for them playing slowly, and just make assumptions.

The usual argumentative bullshit of "Oh, but the group!" is just a self-indulgent whine. None of you think about the group, you think about yourselves. So stop pretending otherwise.

- - - Updated - - -



Stop pretending you give a shit about the group, when it is just a silly whine about what *you* you should get from a dungeon experience.

- - - Updated - - -



I actually do no such thing, but nice to speak about someone because you have found a little buddy to support your self indulgent whining. Standard MMO-C drooling.

As to why I am being so "aggressive"? Because this site fosters nothing but self-righteous circle-jerking assholes. Good thing is, SE agree with me, not you, else the game would be a cesspool like WoW community wise.

As I said before. Be honest for your reasoning. You want to kick because you feel your enjoyment of the game is being hampered. It is nothing to do with the group. Nothing to do with "being fair to all", you just don't feel your experience should be hampered by a player you feel is "not pulling their weight", despite not knowing the reasoning behind it whatsoever. But sure, keep being you.

I haven't run into anything so bad it's kick worthy lately, so no I'm not just whining about "me". I've had bad bad dps and undergeared tanks, but we made it through in ok time. But kick worthy things do exist, and something that would drag a dungeon to completion time is kick worthy, that's beyond insane, that's a healer dead every fight or the tank falling over at a sneeze, or dps auto attacking.

Only thing I've had to kick for lately is this excessively large number of afks lately

[Granyala]

So it has gone now, from basic dungeons, to Savage Raids, to people Disconnecting rather than what you actually inferred, which was that DPS need to do more, else they should be removed from a dungeon?

Keep changing those goalposts.

For the last time, since you seem incapable of reading:
I DO NOT KICK PEOPLE FROM DUNGEONS B/C OF DPS.
Never did, never will.
Do you know why?

Because it would take longer to get reinforcements than dragging even an ice mage through the run.

- - - Updated - - -

As to why I am being so "aggressive"? Because this site fosters nothing but self-righteous circle-jerking assholes. Good thing is, SE agree with me, not you, else the game would be a cesspool like WoW community wise.

What cesspool?
Seriously, show me on the dummy where the bad parser running player touched you.

I played wow for 10 years on a daily basis and I have never encountered this "cesspool" of a community you speak of.
Yeah there are morons who misuse parsers and brag about their own E-Peen but these occurrences are quite rare. Most dungeon runs in WOW are completely silent unless the game forces communication e.g. when content is new. Just like they are in FF-XIV.

- - - Updated - - -

I haven't run into anything so bad it's kick worthy lately, so no I'm not just whining about "me". I've had bad bad dps and undergeared tanks, but we made it through in ok time. But kick worthy things do exist, and something that would drag a dungeon to completion time is kick worthy, that's beyond insane

That's not beyond insane, it is a nonexistent case he uses so he has an "argument".

I've only ever seen the timer run out in brand new 24mans when people were still figuring out the mechanics of the fights. And that is completely o.k. in my book.
Even with crap DPS, a dungeon run never takes more than half an hour, with the exception of max level - 1 leveling dungeons. These suffer a bit from excessive mob HP to balance out lv 70 players and crap quest gear of the <70s, not the players fault.

[Scottyjscizzle]

For the last time, since you seem incapable of reading:
I DO NOT KICK PEOPLE FROM DUNGEONS B/C OF DPS.
Never did, never will.
Do you know why?

Because it would take longer to get reinforcements than dragging even an ice mage through the run.

- - - Updated - - -



What cesspool?
Seriously, show me on the dummy where the bad parser running player touched you.

I played wow for 10 years on a daily basis and I have never encountered this "cesspool" of a community you speak of.
Yeah there are morons who misuse parsers and brag about their own E-Peen but these occurrences are quite rare. Most dungeon runs in WOW are completely silent unless the game forces communication e.g. when content is new. Just like they are in FF-XIV.

I've yet to run a dungeon that people aren't talking to some degree

[Granyala]

I've yet to run a dungeon that people aren't talking to some degree

Hmm weird. In most runs it's a "Hi" emote and a "bye" emote. Apart from that: complete silence.
Then again I do tend to pull wall to wall w/o interruptions, so I don't give them time to type much.^^

[Onikaroshi]

That's not beyond insane, it is a nonexistent case he uses so he has an "argument".

I've only ever seen the timer run out in brand new 24mans when people were still figuring out the mechanics of the fights. And that is completely o.k. in my book.
Even with crap DPS, a dungeon run never takes more than half an hour, with the exception of max level - 1 leveling dungeons. These suffer a bit from excessive mob HP to balance out lv 70 players and crap quest gear of the <70s, not the players fault.

This is the closest I've seen from reddit, so it does happen, you just have to have pissed off some random deity or something lol (from the F you friday reddit thread)

ROULETTE DINGS. DOMA CASTLE. THREE SPROUTS (AST, DRG, DRG).

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

> I POUR A DRINK OUT FOR THE HOMIES.

CHECK PARTY'S EQUIPMENT. EVERYONE HAS THE SHIRE SET. UNAUGMENTED.
THIS IS GONNA BE AN ALL-SHIELD OATH RUN, SON.

> SUCCESSFULLY HQ MY JACK & COKE WITH ADDITIONAL WHISKEY.

RUN STARTS. THE TRASH FIGHTS THE TRASH.
THIS IS LIKE WATCHING A WET NOODLE SLAP FIGHT. WE WIPE TWICE TO THE SECOND GROUP.
THANK YOSHI THERE ARE NO ENEMY RESPAWNS IN DUNGEONS.

> TWO DRINKS & 19 MINUTES LATER... 1ST BOSS.

MAGITEK REARGUARD: TURNS, POINTS GARLEAN FIRE MARKERS AT BOTH DRAGOONS. THEY RE-ENACT THE PROMETHEUS RUN

> HANDS OFF KEYBOARD. CHIN TO PALM. WATCH REARGUARD WEAR THE AST LIKE A HOOD ORNAMENT.

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

> THREE DRINKS, FOUR WIPES & 31 MINUTES LATER...

NEXT RUN OF ENEMIES. WE BEGIN TRASH FIGHT OLYMPIC TRYOUTS. BOTH DRGS WANT THE GOLD.
CANNON DODGING PORTION. AST RUNS DIRECTLY IN FRONT, GETS BLASTED, RUNS SIDEWAYS, GETS BLASTED. DEAD ASS AST.
PAGING DOCTOR CLUE. DOCTOR CLUE TO THE LOLFLOOR, ASAP.

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

> FOUR DRINKS, SIX WIPES & 55 MINUTES LATER... 2ND BOSS.

MAGITEK HEXADRONE PRAYS TO RNGESUS. PRAYERS ARE ANSWERED: AST GETS STACKUP, DRGS GET "FIRE LINE" SEPARATED.
I PLAY THE SONG OF MY PEOPLE AND DANCE LIKE ONLY A MANDERVILLE CAN.
HEXADRONE ANNIHILATES AST & 1 DRG, THROWS HIMSELF A VICTORY BBQ WITH PLD KABOBS AND FAILSAUCE.

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
> FIFTH DRINK. WIFE LOUDLY WONDERS WHERE ALL THE SODA WENT. I BLAME HER MOTHER.
> NINTH & TENTH WIPES. THE CEO OF CHARMIN CALLS ABOUT A POSSIBLE RESEARCH GRANT.

LAST RUN OF ENEMY TRASH. NINJAS EVERYWHERE. IT'S NARUTO IN HERE AND THE DRGS ARE SASU-KIN' IT UP.
ROBO-SPIDER POPS OUT JUST BFEFORE BOSS CHAMBER, BLASTS AST WITH FIREY CASTS. SMELLS LIKE ROASTED FAILURE.
BOSS TIME. WE ALL GO TOGETHER, MULTIPLE TIMES. NOT IN A FUN WAY. BEWWWM.

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
TOTAL RUN TIME: 77 MINUTES. DONATED THE REST OF MY EVENING TO ADVERTISING PLANNED PARENTHOOD IN LOWER LIMSA.

Almost would have loved to have seen that though.

Does bring up whether we should have ilvl reqs for MSQ dungeons... like end game dungeons have them, why not leveling, leveling tend to actually hit harder then end game.

[Cattleya]

Oof, people still wearing unaugmented Shire gear in Doma Castle. Honestly even augmented shire gear is a no-no at that point, with regular ol' NQ level 66 gear being better, let alone HQ. Had a level 66 tank in Bardam's Mettle the other day with mostly unaugmented shire gear and even 136 accessories, I felt bad for the healer.

But to me, even worse than that are the people who are very obviously semi-AFKing. Practically every single MSQ roulette run, I see someone who doesn't do anything on trash and barely anything to bosses. Just today, a summoner, no pet out, didn't do anything on trash and on bosses he just cast Ruin like once every 10 seconds, never before was I that tempted to vote kick someone, but the option was either not there or I couldn't find it.

There's subpar performance and then there's just being an asshole to your group.

[Strangebrew]

I DO NOT KICK PEOPLE FROM DUNGEONS B/C OF DPS.

I do and i feel pretty damn good about it, zero tolerance for players being lazy and wasting other people's time, or people who refuse to listen and learn to criticism or advice.

[icausewipes]

I gotta see this guy's lodestone armory. Did he spam this the entire run?

[Granyala]

Does bring up whether we should have ilvl reqs for MSQ dungeons... like end game dungeons have them, why not leveling, leveling tend to actually hit harder then end game.

Weird, I did have no issues tanking these in a mix of shire (augmented) and a few pieces that happened to drop along the way.

Then again I know how to use cooldowns.

- - - Updated - - -

I gotta see this guy's lodestone armory. Did he spam this the entire run?

Man, why can't I encounter stuff like that?
That run would have been hilarious.