To all of the people unsubscribed in the past..

[Morbownz]

So busy you are taking and answering questions on MMO champ about how you dont have time to do something that takes less time to answer the question.

Correct. /10char

[Lahlah]

There's subjective value and there's really world value and real world value is what matters, I'm sure there are many people happy with there mac book pro's, dosnt mean they haven't been over charged for the hardware.

You don't have to feel like you have been ripped off to be ripped off, in fact most of the time people who have been ripped off usualy make excuses for the company or product ripping them off.

This is why we use real world value to judge these things by making comparisons to similar products and services. Mac's v Dell's, iTunes v Spotify e.t.c, compare price, features and services of those prices.

And when you do that with classic WoW vs any other subscription mmo there is no way you can say classic wow isn't a rip off for $14.99 a month, sorry but no level of nostalgic love for a game or company can excuse it.

Lol this will be my last post to you because you just don't seem to grasp the concept of value as it's typically applied(ie by economists, philosophers, etc). "Real world value" isn't actually a thing, it's something you made up, as well as saying it is "what matters" which is also just your opinion. If you fail to add in subjective value, that person A might enjoy xyz for ten hours a week (let's pretend xyz is classic wow) whereas they might only enjoy abc for two hours a week (retail), then how are they being ripped off? They are only being ripped off because that's your opinion based on the fact that you might not enjoy the same thing, but that has nothing to do with whether that person finds value in what they decide to pay for.

Anyway, I've simplified it as much as I can so I guess there's not much else to say but I did want to point that, as a software engineer, I find your comment about macs/pcs interesting and incorrect. There's a reason most developers use macs which has to do with coding value and not just some oversimplified argument regarding price tag and because of this I have a mac laptop for my work in the tech industry and I have a pc to play games, each with their own unique purpose and value.

[Monster Hunter]

Lol this will be my last post to you because you just don't seem to grasp the concept of value as it's typically applied(ie by economists, philosophers, etc). "Real world value" isn't actually a thing, it's something you made up, as well as saying it is "what matters" which is also just your opinion. If you fail to add in subjective value, that person A might enjoy xyz for ten hours a week (let's pretend xyz is classic wow) whereas they might only enjoy abc for two hours a week (retail), then how are they being ripped off? They are only being ripped off because that's your opinion based on the fact that you might not enjoy the same thing, but that has nothing to do with whether that person finds value in what they decide to pay for.

Anyway, I've simplified it as much as I can so I guess there's not much else to say but I did want to point that, as a software engineer, I find your comment about macs/pcs interesting and incorrect. There's a reason most developers use macs which has to do with coding value and not just some oversimplified argument regarding price tag and because of this I have a mac laptop for my work in the tech industry and I have a pc to play games, each with their own unique purpose and value.

you must be having a fucking laugh, Macs for software dev? are you getting software dev and web dev confused because i am a software engineer, a real one, not a piddly little mobile app or web guy and every one uses Linux, or did apple sell you a pack of lies? Macs for code value fuck me, congrats thats literally the most stupid thing i have ever seen on the internet, i have been in that driver code and its a failed abortion.

well you have clearly shown you know basically nothing of value thats for sure.

and as for real world value this is an example from the pharmaceutical industry https://www.covance.com/content/dam/...e_WPCMA004.pdf

economists using subjective metrics is almost as stupid as using Mac's for software Dev, know your shit before you chat it, also pick up some C and do some real work.

this graph is from 2017 which has windows top, but since then the server space has boomed which is Linux dominated


it also counts Pi, Arduino and android separate which are all actually derivatives of Linux.

[Lahlah]

you must be having a fucking laugh, Macs for software dev? are you getting software dev and web dev confused because i am a software engineer, a real one, not a piddly little mobile app or web guy and every one uses Linux, or did apple sell you a pack of lies? Macs for code value fuck me, congrats thats literally the most stupid thing i have ever seen on the internet, i have been in that driver code and its a failed abortion.

well you have clearly shown you know basically nothing of value thats for sure.

and as for real world value this is an example from the pharmaceutical industry https://www.covance.com/content/dam/...e_WPCMA004.pdf

economists using subjective metrics is almost as stupid as using Mac's for software Dev, know your shit before you chat it, also pick up some C and do some real work.

this graph is from 2017 which has windows top, but since then the server space has boomed which is Linux dominated


it also counts Pi, Arduino and android separate which are all actually derivatives of Linux.

So let me get this right. You Google'ed something to make your point, correct? So, like this, right? (also, who is talking about server space? everyone knows linux dominates that area)



Thanks for trying to "school" me but C is not really where it's at right now unless you're taking a community college course, with a lot more emphasis on other languages these days. Oh, and thanks for letting me know about Linux's derivatives, man, cuz I did not know that (cuz anyone who uses a Mac couldn't possibly be using it for purposes related to bash right?).../s

I know "software engineer" is used loosely these days but just because you configured a Raspberry Pi for some cool project doesn't make you one. Anyway, we've gotten way off topic and you're not smart enough for me to continue this conversation so good luck with yourself.

[CritFromAfar]

Because contrary to popular belief, the majority of people who went to play on private servers weren't there because it was free but because they couldn't play the version of the game they loved.

Bfa is also part of a 2004 game btw, the game still runs on a subscription and people still pay it to this day, there isn't much difference deciding which version to play and subscribing to it.

The subscription cost dilemma is a decade old argument, to this day one can even argue that subscribing monthly to a game is a tad outdated in terms of content provided, but to be realistic here , shifting away from subscriptions to a free2play model that is heavily tied to in-game shops for the majority of it's "proper" functionality or prestige wouldn't really make it any less costly than a monthly subscription, in fact maybe even more expensive at times ( if other free2play games are any indication).

It would be better to pay monthly to maintain a pure game than to play a game that appears free but isn't and forces customers into their marketing plan, for me at least, would I have preferred if classic was free? sure. But I'm still going to pay for it.

@Ewwe

I'm not sure what reason there would be to still play on p.servers after classic releases, outside not wanting to pay the sub fee of course.

Either way the cost of maintaining classic after it's released is minimal compared to developing and releasing new content for their modern version, to be fair, pulling players back who haven't played in years is a big win for blizzard even if they don't end up staying for long, there's also a high chance that these players might discover BFA and future expansions since they're both linked , which was their strategy all along and then there's the huge content droughts in expansions which classic will help fill since it's a timeless game.

I believe blizzard's goal is to have players actually play both versions to reduce subscription downtime during droughts and to stabilize revenue streams.

But all of this is somewhat meaningless at this point, you are asking the wrong questions. Asking players to decide for you whether you should play the game or not is strange, if you wish to play it then do so, expecting to get actual answers to subjective questions from the internet is like asking whether your taste buds would prefer salty food over sweets, no one can answer that but yourself.

If you're unsure just try it and if you end up disliking it then stop playing it, it's that simple, no one can tell you if it's the right choice or not because most of the posters are here to talk about themselves and what they like, not what they think is good for you. Don't follow the masses and the bandwagon opinion about what you should do with your life, decide for yourself.

It was pointed out in another thread that there are players that play p.servers due to being banned from retail. If p.servers have any appeal further than that, I'm not sure, but not everyone will want to pay to play.

F2P models end up focusing more on content that's paid for being more appealing than content that's not, and it leads to frustration within the playerbase between people that buy items versus players that don't. The developers end up putting more work into the quality of the paid items versus the non-paid items, as well, and they end up leaning more towards cash-grabbing rather than remaining consistent with the quality for everyone. Making paid items cosmetic only partially alleviates this. F2P games tend to struggle.

I've considered this, and that's why I made the poll. So far the people that are returning to play also tend to be people that won't play the main game, and the amount of people returning vastly outnumbers the people that are already subbed.

The server cost might be minimal, but that will be on top of what Blizz would have already been paying for Retail, which is still putting out new content. If enough people weren't interested in Classic, the cost of Classic servers could have been a drain bleeding Blizz of money for future content, and overtime could create more problems.

I'm not sure why you think that I'm asking these questions to figure out if I want to play or not. I'm more interested in seeing if Classic will be a success passed the initial release. The poll and peoples' answers are actually greatly helping with that.

[Sensa1]

Only for Classic, I have no interest in the current iteration whatsoever

my sentiment exactly...will likely never buy another Retail Expansion

[Kyphael]

I unsubbed for all of WoD. Came back in Legion and been subbed since. Plan on staying subbed for Classic to enjoy two games for the price of one.

[CritFromAfar]

Ah, well if you want to compare it to 15 years worth of entertainment, then I'd also have to add up all the games I have bought over the last 15 years as well. Assassin's Creed, Fallout, Age of Empires, Diablo, Halo, Gears of War, God of War, Animal Crossing, Monster Hunter, GTA and then take into account that most of these are series and I've bought every game in the series. So yea, not just one $60 game in a 15 yr period. People find value in different things and I've found value in paying for a sub these last 12 years because I very much enjoy the game. I've also spent probably $1k on WoW services but it's not a big deal to me because it's part of the entertainment value I get out of it.

Is it expensive? I guess that's subjective.

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I don't really care to get into a debate about whether you are placing an objective or subjective label on "value" as that is a much debated topic already, but I fall in the camp that it is subjective. Also it seems like you're confusing using value as a verb rather than as a noun but it's cool, we just disagree.

Well, no, not exactly. WoW is one game, which if you've played the entire 15 years (which I know you said you didn't yourself, but just as an example) then that would be more than 2000$. If you compare that to say, buying the main game of a single player game, than it's 60$=2000$ because of the sub alone. That's not including DLC/expansions, which some people have bought multiple times. You can also buy single player games on sale for very cheap, and while the same is true for WoW expansions, the sub is what gets you. You really can't even play other games with it (unless I'm wrong, I've never tried it, but just guessing you'd have to buy the main game first unless it's free) until Classic.

If you only ever bought single player games, you could probably buy more single player games AND their DLC's for 2000$ with the money you spent on WoW. Or, you could have spent it on something else entirely, something that isn't a game. This is why I don't like subs.

It doesn't seem that dire since it's over time, most people end up making more money in that time than they lose from WoW. But when you think about how much it costed overall and think about what else you could have used that money on, it might seem like a poor decision in the long run. It's the same kind of problem smokers experience.

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They started to focus on characters at the expense of lore and world building, they threw continuity to the wind, they force the player character to do stupid things like picking up and doing the bidding of an old god dagger for reasons unknown.

They repeat plotlines that were tiresome the first time around because they’re out of ideas, BfA is a MoP rehash down to the very patch cycle. Just see 5.2 and 8.2 both involving Lor’themar rebelling against the Warchief and making peace with Jaina in a foreign land ruled by an evil monarch (First the Thunder King, now Azshara).

By comparison, Vanilla has a world-driven story that’s more about the lore than moronic characters. No stupid rebellion that ruined every single character in the Horde bar Gallywix. And no Human-centric homogenised Alliance.

It's funny you mention that, because I find that the longer a story goes on for, the worse it gets. Stories that are shorter and are more concise about how they mapped out the plot and characters tend to be better written than stories that drag on with no real direction. I find that when the writers are required to consistently write over long periods that they get strained and don't end up having enough time to work out the details as much.

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idk why you would make a thead "to those already unsubbed" but then put a "im subbed" option....
puts a large bias on the poll already.

Because I figured that undoubtedly people would come in to read that were already subbed, and there have been. Adding that option actually removed the bias. Something you and others might be able to understand.

[FelPlague]

Because I figured that undoubtedly people would come in to read that were already subbed, and there have been. Adding that option actually removed the bias. Something you and others might be able to understand.

oh no i agree it removes the bias from the yes no and undecided.
but issue is people love to take these things out of context and go "lol look at how few people are subbed this is proof game is dead"
trust me, literally every 20 seconds on the forums you will find "the game is at an all time low for subs" where, where, where people?

[Charge me Doctor]

There was a line Blizzard toed in Wrath, crossed in Cataclysm and paved over between Mists and WoD — from adventurer to "champion" to explicit yet generic "hero."

Acting as an individual in a big world should be an obvious pillar of an MMO, as the game is only experienced firsthand and group achievements have an inimitable quality of "Wow, we did this!" to them. That was overlooked, and long-since missing from retail.

"Acting as an individual" was never a thing in WoW. "Acting as an individual" is purely on player himself. There if no option for, instead of killing an blackrock ork leader to butcher a pig and turn in a pig hear instead, then affiliate yourself with blackrock clan and become their ally. WoW never had that "RPG freedom". In fact, only in BfA we had a taste of having a "choice" in-game.

[vian]

Hard pass. Borderlands 3 releases on that date.

[wholol]

It was pointed out in another thread that there are players that play p.servers due to being banned from retail. If p.servers have any appeal further than that, I'm not sure, but not everyone will want to pay to play.

F2P models end up focusing more on content that's paid for being more appealing than content that's not, and it leads to frustration within the playerbase between people that buy items versus players that don't. The developers end up putting more work into the quality of the paid items versus the non-paid items, as well, and they end up leaning more towards cash-grabbing rather than remaining consistent with the quality for everyone. Making paid items cosmetic only partially alleviates this. F2P games tend to struggle.

I've considered this, and that's why I made the poll. So far the people that are returning to play also tend to be people that won't play the main game, and the amount of people returning vastly outnumbers the people that are already subbed.

The server cost might be minimal, but that will be on top of what Blizz would have already been paying for Retail, which is still putting out new content. If enough people weren't interested in Classic, the cost of Classic servers could have been a drain bleeding Blizz of money for future content, and overtime could create more problems.

I'm not sure why you think that I'm asking these questions to figure out if I want to play or not. I'm more interested in seeing if Classic will be a success passed the initial release. The poll and peoples' answers are actually greatly helping with that.

Honestly, who knows what the future holds. After the initial hype dies down and the dust settles we don't know how many or how long a certain number of people will play, the truly diehard fanbase will stay for sure but who knows how much that number will be.

As for covering costs, the initial launch revenues of a month's sub will be more than enough to cover the cost of resources spent, in fact I think the reason it took this long to release classic is because the amount of people and resources dedicated to the whole project was very minimal, but that's not relevant to our discussion I guess. And in terms of longevity and maintenance, if 4-5 people can handle setting up and running several p.servers for years using nothing but bread crumbs as revenue then I'm pretty sure there won't be an issue on that part from blizzard.

[PrairieChicken]

No for now, just because of personal schedules. Might try in the future when I have more time and freedom

[Skizzit]

I find it odd that I see people complaining about "content drought" in current expansions and yet they are excited to play a version of the game that will never get any new content, ever. Are people really going to continue to play Classic for an extended length of time? What really is there to do that will keep you logging in every day/week/whatever years down the road?

I get that people are excited for Classic, but I just don't see how things will be any different then they currently are between the release of the last expansion patch and the next expansion.

And to answer the question, no, I will not be resubbing. I actually have not even purchased BfA. I do still have a soft spot for WoW so I will check in on this site to see what's the current status of the game in hopes something will peak my interest but just have not really seen that since Legion. Oh well, maybe it just isn't the game for me anymore.

[MardestyGSOG]

I unsubbed during the first tier of legion, didn’t buy bfa, and only resubbed when the beta launched hoping for an invite

[Monster Hunter]

So let me get this right. You Google'ed something to make your point, correct? So, like this, right? (also, who is talking about server space? everyone knows linux dominates that area)



Thanks for trying to "school" me but C is not really where it's at right now unless you're taking a community college course, with a lot more emphasis on other languages these days. Oh, and thanks for letting me know about Linux's derivatives, man, cuz I did not know that (cuz anyone who uses a Mac couldn't possibly be using it for purposes related to bash right?).../s

I know "software engineer" is used loosely these days but just because you configured a Raspberry Pi for some cool project doesn't make you one. Anyway, we've gotten way off topic and you're not smart enough for me to continue this conversation so good luck with yourself.

And just because you configured a django server dosnt make you one. Also fix you're bloody line ending's befor you commit to git, that's why every one hates that one mac user on a project.

The guy who uses a mac has no room to talk about anything tech related.

I bet you use tabs instead of space as well, you seem like "that" kind of guy

[G3 Ghost]

I resigned for Classic, but dipped my toe back into retail and am having some good fun just leveling stuff I've never had at level cap before (shaman and monk).

[Annelie]

I havent decided yet. If they keep the broken layering in i will not. I am not too happy about CRZ-BG's either or the decission to use the bad version of AV just because it was in a pre-patch to TBC (no one löiked it back then so why bring that version now?). It is like adding LFD on a wrath server because it was in a pre-patch to cata.

EDIT: I quit the game a week before BFA launched as i knew BFA would be a total s**t-fest as soon as they announced it in Blizzcon 2017.

[Contego]

And just because you configured a django server dosnt make you one. Also fix you're bloody line ending's befor you commit to git, that's why every one hates that one mac user on a project.

The guy who uses a mac has no room to talk about anything tech related.

I bet you use tabs instead of space as well, you seem like "that" kind of guy

The business of entertainment, art and culture is vastly different than the examples you provided. It is easy to compare the price on similar computer components, but you can't compare the subjective value of a cultural impression. I understand you are attempting to rationalize value, but it doesn't apply here. Take for example a painting you have made, and a painting Picasso made: just because you put an equal amount of effort into it, and maybe even more details and various colors, his painting is still of a higher value.

[Monster Hunter]

The business of entertainment, art and culture is vastly different than the examples you provided. It is easy to compare the price on similar computer components, but you can't compare the subjective value of a cultural impression. I understand you are attempting to rationalize value, but it doesn't apply here. Take for example a painting you have made, and a painting Picasso made: just because you put an equal amount of effort into it, and maybe even more details and various colors, his painting is still of a higher value.

The value of a painting depends entirely on how much people are willing to pay for it. But a painting is pure art, a computer game is only partially art. It's mostly tech and service, which is quantifiable. Better code isn't subjective, amount of service for your money isn't subjective.

It's probly more like a car where its judged in appearance and performance. And classic WoW is alot like one of those kit cars you can put a classic car body on. Looks like a mustang but it's got 1 Liter engine and fuck all breakdown coverage or spare parts.

And its certainly not got the same value as modern car.