BfA Patch Speculation thread (8.3 and later).

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I'm playing the PTR a bit and I guess I'm not really seeing the point of this patch as a non-raider. I can get pretty geared via Nazjatar...but why? I think that's the biggest problem with WoW now and it persists in 8.2. I'm getting better gear to kill already non-threatening enemies in watered-down world quests? At least in Legion I had a goal (Mage Tower) to pursue and gear my characters up, with a final confrontation that actually required skill.

You mean gear heavy, the mage tower required a certain amount of gear to even stand a possible chance, it wasn't just a purely skill. 8.2 has stuff for non raiders, it just depends on your perspective. I wouldn't call WQ watered down, they're no more hard then the standard quests. Honestly I enjoy myself, I just know I will run out of Wqs to do.

And no one shotting isn't some great mechanic to quests(Especially if its one of those fast casting spells)

[infinitemeridian]

You mean gear heavy, the mage tower required a certain amount of gear to even stand a possible chance, it wasn't just a purely skill.

It still required some skill even with gear. And outgearing it was a goal in and of itself. It's great that I can get good gear in Nazjatar, but I don't see the point of getting it without some sort of challenge to overcome. It's not like the content in Nazjatar (or the world ever) is difficult.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Either that or they might just be updating the Ek/Kalimdor maps.
It is starting to veer on distracting how only a few of those depicted on those screens are still leading their people. Especially once Sylvanas gets ousted, the remaining ones will be Mekkatorque (presumably), Baine, Velen, Muradin and Genn

Yeah I tried to be subtle and comedic on my phone which is where most of my "missed the target with a mallet toss" posts come from.

Basically the only thing we can suss out from the loading screen filepaths is how many loading screens there are. Very likely that's for continents, since instance loading screens usually come way later.

Though honestly I wonder if Blizz will ever update the old loading screens. Thrall is still the Orc Leader according to Kalimdor's.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm not as picky(Everyone has their preferences so nothing wrong with that) but an underground expansion would be pretty cool(And yes there will variety in said expansion...its just obvious).

Heck I'd argue going underground gives Blizz the most potential variety because you're not beholden to "normal" biomes. You want a glowing mushroom forest? You got it! Lava-filled mines? Go for it! Titan zone that looks like they blew up Ulduar into a full zone? Yup. Icy cave with frozen proto-humans? It's canonical to real life!

Even works with flight still, they just need to make a solid ceiling. They could even hide secrets IN the ceiling.

[FlubberPuddy]

It still required some skill even with gear. And outgearing it was a goal in and of itself. It's great that I can get good gear in Nazjatar, but I don't see the point of getting it without some sort of challenge to overcome. It's not like the content in Nazjatar (or the world ever) is difficult.

You ever play video games where the "best gear" isn't required but you can get yourself to it anyway just to be even more powerful? Ever play a video game where you can collect a shit ton of gear but it doesn't matter because you're only ever able to equip one set at a time?

Some people find it fun to do, that's really all the point it needs. When I played PTR back then Nazjatar was tough for me, even with a bodyguard, granted my gear is still around 370ish or something, super low (haven't raided much in this expac at all).

I bet a lot of players will enjoy being able to gear up via the benthic system, on their own time without needing anyone else (at least not in the sense that organized raids need).

There's a lot of stuff for non-raiders, you scoff at mounts and shit but those are probably the things non-raiders look forward to more than the raids themselves. I think you were still applying a raider mindset there.

- - - Updated - - -

Heck I'd argue going underground gives Blizz the most potential variety because you're not beholden to "normal" biomes. You want a glowing mushroom forest? You got it! Lava-filled mines? Go for it! Titan zone that looks like they blew up Ulduar into a full zone? Yup. Icy cave with frozen proto-humans? It's canonical to real life!

Even works with flight still, they just need to make a solid ceiling. They could even hide secrets IN the ceiling.

And then have a part of the cave open up into an area with what appears to be open sky and floating land dispersed around, just to fuck with everyone even more.

[Sondrelk]

I'm playing the PTR a bit and I guess I'm not really seeing the point of this patch as a non-raider. I can get pretty geared via Nazjatar...but why? I think that's the biggest problem with WoW now and it persists in 8.2. I'm getting better gear to kill already non-threatening enemies in watered-down world quests? At least in Legion I had a goal (Mage Tower) to pursue and gear my characters up, with a final confrontation that actually required skill.

Mounts and pets? Most of them are re-skins, the only moderately interesting ones being the crab and the wheel (BTW, do we have a mythic Ashzara mount yet?), which I don't even foresee myself using.

Gaining the best gear has always been the games most effective draw.
If you are willing to dismiss the rewards given as not rewards because "reasons" then you would have this problem no matter what.
Mage tower also gave you nothing but a vanity reward, killing Mythic Argus gave you the ur'zul mount.

There is content, if you intend to dismiss every piece of content because you don't think it qualifies as content for flimsy reasons, then the game is definitely not hte problem. it is you.

[Nyel]

My bad, all this 'leak' means is that someone made an expansion08 dir on the main branch for some reason. If I had to guess, it might have to do something with the new loading screen system being copied over/backported from the 9.0 branch or something like that (if it even was copied over). Considering nothing else (seemingly) shipped, I don't think this is indicative of anything or comparable to the previous leaks (e.g. the iron horde texture in 5.4).

Thanks for clarifying!

- - - Updated - - -

Yes it was and the raid release schedule of it is proof. HM and BRF where both tested in the beta and both originally planned to be part of the same tier. They later separated them and only released ONE additional raid on top of them. Legion had double the amount of raids WoD had, more zones and way more content in general but sure thing my dude WoD wasn't planned to be half the duration

WoD was never planned as a 1 year expansion. BfA has the same amount of raids up to now, launching with Uldir (=Highmaul) and bringing in BoD several months later (BRF). They were still the same raid tier but that's where they started to separate content patch releases from raid releases. We get Azshara raid which is reminiscent of HFC. Right now we basically don't know if there will be an 8.3 raid yet so there's that for your argument about WoD.

None of the expansions was ever planned as a 1 year thing, they just failed to deliver content in WoD (and a lot of stuff was scrapped, too). WoD didn't have this abysmal mid-expansion drought that BfA has by the way. It suffered greatly after 6.2 but who knows if it'll be better this time.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm not as picky(Everyone has their preferences so nothing wrong with that) but an underground expansion would be pretty cool(And yes there will variety in said expansion...its just obvious).

Mines of Moria (LotRO expansion) is a very good indicator on how to make a great underground / cave expansion. As of now it's the most beloved expansion for Lord of the Rings Online.

The question about this in WoW would still be: why and where. I'm totally here for underground / Black Empire but there must be a logical explanation for this. And if we'd get underground I doubt it will be dragon related at all (which might be the second major speculation for future main topics - underground, dragons or undead).

[Porcodio]

Funny to see there's still people with such a low capacity for imagination that they believe there's ever such a thing as "no major enemies" in an MMORPG...

Blizzard literally created new major enemies in MoP, clearly the people paid to develop this game have a better imagination than randoms. Same with Void Lords.



Don't bother, just report them for derailing.

- - - Updated - - -



I second that! It's been too long since we had something properly Undead. I want to see it in 2019 HD glory! And not a reskinned Naxx, please. Something new.

- - - Updated - - -



A revisit to the Lich King content could bring with it much needed updates to the DK starting experience. Making them start at 70 or maybe even 80, and making it so that they can have access to new races because now DK's are being raised by the Ebon Blade, not Arthas.

Major Enemy = Enemy already in the lore

Popping out " SHA " that were still Old God's doesn't really count.

Low capacity idd

[Porcodio]

In case of risking any trouble, why talk normally with the chap, who started with another lad a 10 page conversion about this bullshittery Classic vs Retail. And in anycase good that a prick like you got triggered by a simple icon.

I'm not triggered but if that can make you enjoy your life go on idc.

[Porcodio]

I know it is hard to understand if you didn't went to college or are used to voicing while reading books.

But WoW issue regarding the Lore is that they already consumed the entire Warcraft Lore established in the last 20 years from Videogames and Books.


So basically they retconned a lot of things with " it was an old god plans " ruining basically the previous lore where you could have multiple enemies with different goals rather than

'eheheh all are puppets in the hands of old gods'


So ye no major Enemies beside the Legion.

Illidan got retconned.
Arthas done and probably there was some Old God's influence via saronite.
Deathwing see N'zoth.
Ragnaros is a Deathwing henchman.
TH Cult still old gods
Pandaria emh Sha Mantids and Garrosh, all 3 related to old gods, at least ToT with Mogu and Zandalari was an interesting and refreshing enemy.
Aszhara? N'zoth.



Nowadays is everything related to Old God's because it is the easier Deus Ex Machina for the lore.

Something fishy is happening? Old Gods.

Once there was a Dragon transformed in a Woman that was trying to overthrow the Human Kingdom and her brother doing experiment in his lair to create a new type of dragonkin to conquer Azeroth and beat the Firelord in the basement.

And that was ok because we were random peeps that nobody in the game gave 2 cent now we are godlike superheroes and we need to fight stronger and stronger enemies but this isn't a Shonen Manga.

[huth]

The biggest problem is how is this timeskip going to be shown though gameplay. The most likely is it would be a quick cutscene establishing that years have passed, or something to that effect. But you could not realistically have players posess items exclusive to before or after.

This is not like old expansions, where in lore you are going through the expansions as if each one was just released. If you have a timeskip, there has to be a definite point of before and after, and i cannot imagine how this divide would be shown properly in game. The easiest is a cutscene, but if there are no discernible changes, then you could just as easily have said it was the next day.

If there are discernible changes, then how does this work for those who have not seen the timeskip yet?

All of which is already happening now and not actually creating any significant problems, and you haven't illustrated why it would suddenly do so in the future. RL time and Lore time are completely disconnected either way.

As for those that have not seen the timeskip... they're stuck in the old world and can't access the new "continent". The skip would be mandatory for progressing, just like the intro quests for the last three expansions.

They're not going to do a Cata-level world rework ever again, it just isn't worth the effort.

Another option would also be an expansion where we have little to no contact to our faction, giving them some time to rebuild offscreen.

[Sondrelk]

All of which is already happening now and not actually creating any significant problems, and you haven't illustrated why it would suddenly do so in the future. RL time and Lore time are completely disconnected either way.

As for those that have not seen the timeskip... they're stuck in the old world and can't access the new "continent". The skip would be mandatory for progressing, just like the intro quests for the last three expansions.

They're not going to do a Cata-level world rework ever again, it just isn't worth the effort.

Another option would also be an expansion where we have little to no contact to our faction, giving them some time to rebuild offscreen.

The thing you are describing is essentially what each expansion is already though, what makes a timeskip necessary if nothing is going to change? Might as well say that there was a timeskip between WoD and Legion, sure it could happen, but if there are no discernible differences, then what is the point.

When someone asks for a timeskip, they usually want it like a cata revamp, because what is the most fun about a timeskip is seeing what has changed. And if nothing has changed, then the timeskip was pointless.

I will say though, it is definitely not as bad an idea as those that argue that an expansion should have Azeroth become uninhabitable and having ot go on the run to a different planet. Which is pretty much impossible to show off in any good way.

[huth]

The thing you are describing is essentially what each expansion is already though, what makes a timeskip necessary if nothing is going to change? Might as well say that there was a timeskip between WoD and Legion, sure it could happen, but if there are no discernible differences, then what is the point.

I'm talking about one that is mostly confined to lore. You would not see any immediate effects outside of areas relevant to the expansion, mostly because that would be a waste of time and money for all involved.

It shouldn't have gameplay effects, because that's not the point. The factions should logically be stretched way beyond breaking point now and it's getting increasingly absurd how they can continue to field troops that shouldn't even be able to exist. They need some time to recover.

[Queen of Hamsters]

But WoW issue regarding the Lore is that they already consumed the entire Warcraft Lore established in the last 20 years from Videogames and Books.

You have a very high opinion of yourself, but you don't contribute anything but the very bottom of the barrel, petty jabs as a preemptive measure against anyone that would disagree, and the previously mentioned innate lack of imagination.

Void Lords are beyond Old Gods. They still add the smaller storylines as well, as in Bwonsamdi, or fishing up a dead relative to Jaina, or the Drustvar storyline.

You missing those things doesn't mean they're not there. The smaller storylines are still part of the game, we don't need to fight stronger and stronger enemies, as can be seen in-game in every single zone. The only one voicing such rules, are you. And you don't develop this game, so your word is pretty damned meaningless as to how they'll design in-game stories.

Lore is written, they can write any new enemies and it'll be part of the established lore. Like I said, you lacking the imagination required =/= they lack it.

- - - Updated - - -

They're not going to do a Cata-level world rework ever again, it just isn't worth the effort.
.

Of course it would be worth the effort, if they learnt from past mistakes and used the remake to also create max level content.
Don't forget that the team working on WoW is bigger than during Cata, with more to be added. They've already begun via Warfronts, which lets them visually update zones whilst still keeping them relevant to max level players. 2 birds in one stone.

They'll 100% do another revamp of EK and Kalimdor. We've had the Cata zones longer than we did the Vanilla zones by now and the content, which is the first new players encounter, is horribly dated both narratively as well as mechanically and visually.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm playing the PTR a bit and I guess I'm not really seeing the point of this patch as a non-raider. I can get pretty geared via Nazjatar...but why? I think that's the biggest problem with WoW now and it persists in 8.2. I'm getting better gear to kill already non-threatening enemies in watered-down world quests? At least in Legion I had a goal (Mage Tower) to pursue and gear my characters up, with a final confrontation that actually required skill.

Mounts and pets? Most of them are re-skins, the only moderately interesting ones being the crab and the wheel (BTW, do we have a mythic Ashzara mount yet?), which I don't even foresee myself using.

If you don't have motivation to play, perhaps you're playing the wrong game?

I see the point of 8.2 as a raider and for my army of alts. There are a ton of awesome new mounts to obtain, new reputations, new profession items, new areas to explore, new progression paths, Pathfinder part 2, the new Azerite system, the new PVP objectives... New content for WoW = all I need as a fan of the game.

I'm amazed at how people can pretend that there's never any danger to the world though, yet we had Argus and the Broken Shore, where plenty of mobs/areas weren't faceroll soloable by any but the highest geared characters. Up until the very end, people were grouping for content in those zones to make it easier.

But it's a long standing fact that if you're not a raider or pvper, you're getting gear that won't be put to use. Outside of the Mage Tower, how many expansions had content aimed at solo players meant to challenge them...? It's not as if some iteration of this game didn't have people grow stronger via gear to the point of overpowering the world. Although the only character of mine able to faceroll anything on Argus, was my Mythic raid geared toon. Out of 50+.

[rda]

I'm playing the PTR a bit and I guess I'm not really seeing the point of this patch as a non-raider. I can get pretty geared via Nazjatar...but why? I think that's the biggest problem with WoW now and it persists in 8.2. I'm getting better gear to kill already non-threatening enemies in watered-down world quests? At least in Legion I had a goal (Mage Tower) to pursue and gear my characters up, with a final confrontation that actually required skill.

Mounts and pets? Most of them are re-skins, the only moderately interesting ones being the crab and the wheel (BTW, do we have a mythic Ashzara mount yet?), which I don't even foresee myself using.

Mage Tower would have been good, yes.

Mounts and pets are easier done in next expansions anyway, when you outgear things so completely that you are actually optimizing time per run and getting some small bits of fun from that...

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I'm talking about one that is mostly confined to lore. You would not see any immediate effects outside of areas relevant to the expansion, mostly because that would be a waste of time and money for all involved.

It shouldn't have gameplay effects, because that's not the point. The factions should logically be stretched way beyond breaking point now and it's getting increasingly absurd how they can continue to field troops that shouldn't even be able to exist. They need some time to recover.

Numbers and logistics aren't really something Blizzard ever cared for, only random moments for the sake of plot it seems to matter IMO it shouldn't. I only agree on that if there's third party forces going around(Old Gods, Legion, Scourge and what else) and they are kinda doing moderate level stuff, the factions or rather us shouldn't be like "GRRR RED IS BAD" "GRR BLUE IS GETTING IN OUR WAY."


When shit starts hitting the fan, it does get a bit dumb if Alliance and Horde(Even the more assertive members would have to see there's a greater threat).

[Sondrelk]

I'm talking about one that is mostly confined to lore. You would not see any immediate effects outside of areas relevant to the expansion, mostly because that would be a waste of time and money for all involved.

It shouldn't have gameplay effects, because that's not the point. The factions should logically be stretched way beyond breaking point now and it's getting increasingly absurd how they can continue to field troops that shouldn't even be able to exist. They need some time to recover.

I am still not convinced, mostly because a timeskip as you mention it seems ot create more lore problems than it solves.
Let us for instance assume that BfA took place after a timeskip. Said skip would happen when you first go to the new continent. all you are essentially doing at that point is artificially limiting yourself to only using new character models. Let us say the timeskip is a modest 5 years. You would not be able to have any cutscenes with Anduin without making a new model, you oculd never have a quest that sends you to anywhere except the new zones without updating those zones to reflect what has changed.

And what would this timeskip add?
A feeling of a changing world? You would never see it, so that seems pointless.

- - - Updated - - -

Just to be clear. What would a timeskip add, specifically, that could not be added in any other way?
Especially when you limit yourself to only an entirely new expansion.

[Nathanyel]

A revisit to the Lich King content could bring with it much needed updates to the DK starting experience. Making them start at 70 or maybe even 80, and making it so that they can have access to new races because now DK's are being raised by the Ebon Blade, not Arthas.

If it happens along with a Northrend revamp, not as an endgame zone, but still as 60-80 levelling content, they wouldn't need to raise (hehe) the DK starting level. Just lead them into Nothrend and suggest levelling there.

[dacoolist]

I know it is hard to understand if you didn't went to college or are used to voicing while reading books.

But WoW issue regarding the Lore is that they already consumed the entire Warcraft Lore established in the last 20 years from Videogames and Books.


So basically they retconned a lot of things with " it was an old god plans " ruining basically the previous lore where you could have multiple enemies with different goals rather than

'eheheh all are puppets in the hands of old gods'


So ye no major Enemies beside the Legion.

Illidan got retconned.
Arthas done and probably there was some Old God's influence via saronite.
Deathwing see N'zoth.
Ragnaros is a Deathwing henchman.
TH Cult still old gods
Pandaria emh Sha Mantids and Garrosh, all 3 related to old gods, at least ToT with Mogu and Zandalari was an interesting and refreshing enemy.
Aszhara? N'zoth.



Nowadays is everything related to Old God's because it is the easier Deus Ex Machina for the lore.

Something fishy is happening? Old Gods.

Once there was a Dragon transformed in a Woman that was trying to overthrow the Human Kingdom and her brother doing experiment in his lair to create a new type of dragonkin to conquer Azeroth and beat the Firelord in the basement.

And that was ok because we were random peeps that nobody in the game gave 2 cent now we are godlike superheroes and we need to fight stronger and stronger enemies but this isn't a Shonen Manga.

Bolded some quote up there for ya fam, pretty funny

Blizzard has to create lore from something, all those lore heavy characters had been reused/etc but all in all - The games peak for sure during or around the LEECH KANG is obvious that the game has turned into something else.

Do I like WoW: 100%, do I think blizz can turn things around: 100%, do I think they will happen this expansion: No Idea

That's the point, and being here for the entire Cata expac and the entire Wod xpac had the same damn affect on the forum: People just crying a river about the game.

I think blizz needs to pick their shit up, they are kicking back collecting HUGE money on a game with no content.. but that doesn't mean they can't turn it around like they have many times before

[Porcodio]

Void Lords are still Old Gods stuff.

"Eldritch Entities we cannot grasp to imagine that are pulling the strings of events behind the curtain "

Already seen.


What people seems to no be able to grasp is that we had a rush towards the big enemies too fast.

Entire Legion done in 1 Expac, the Major Enemy since Warcraft 3.

At least Vanilla had some variety mixing up Dragons, Silthid and Undeath.


But from now to the timeline where Anduin is Old and he is the champion of Light, I really don't see enough enemies beside Old Gods to fight.

You can't make "weaker" enemies because it will be strange to have beat the shit out Titans and Old God in their Prime Form and then fight some retard Undead Viking Alike Dude like Gorak Tul that looks like a wanna be Lich King.

Also that storyline isn't even explained in the proper way to release a raid with him.

[Queen of Hamsters]

I think blizz needs to pick their shit up, they are kicking back collecting HUGE money on a game with no content.. but that doesn't mean they can't turn it around like they have many times before

The amount of content in-game is objective.
Same as how the lack of content during WoD, was objective.
Some individual not partaking in PVP doesn't mean PVP isn't there for anyone to partake in.
They, as any other company, have not figured out a way of raking in money for no product. You people give them way too much credit.

Subjectively however, the game peaked to me during MoP 5.2, not WOTLK. And nothing's to say they can't achieve another peak.
Wait until BfA's out in full and players judge it based on its entirety, and 9.0 arrives.

- - - Updated - - -

Void Lords are still Old Gods stuff.
.

As has already been established:
They can write new lore. Your lack of imagination isn't universal.

"At least muhnilla", yeah, let's pretend that Vanilla had huge merits as far as lore goes.