To all of the people unsubscribed in the past..

[Unholyground]

I will in September after the major first wave of players is trough, not dealing with that nightmare.

[Contego]

The value of a painting depends entirely on how much people are willing to pay for it. But a painting is pure art, a computer game is only partially art. It's mostly tech and service, which is quantifiable. Better code isn't subjective, amount of service for your money isn't subjective.

It's probly more like a car where its judged in appearance and performance. And classic WoW is alot like one of those kit cars you can put a classic car body on. Looks like a mustang but it's got 1 Liter engine and fuck all breakdown coverage or spare parts.

And its certainly not got the same value as modern car.

I'd buy your argument if absolutely nobody enjoyed the game. The thing is, entertainment is very subjective, and for some people it's worth it to pay 500 dollars to see their favorite band live, while for a person that's not interested in that band, it's outrageous to even think of paying that much to see them. While you can objectively quantify the cost based on salaries, equipment, booking, travel etc., there is also the price of paying for the very experience, which is up to the consumer to decide if it's worth it or not, based on their personally perceived entertainment value.

If a person feels it's worth paying a subscription to experience classic wow, then the price is justified. Regardless of the quantifiable costs of producing the service.

[Monster Hunter]

I'd buy your argument if absolutely nobody enjoyed the game. The thing is, entertainment is very subjective, and for some people it's worth it to pay 500 dollars to see their favorite band live, while for a person that's not interested in that band, it's outrageous to even think of paying that much to see them. While you can objectively quantify the cost based on salaries, equipment, booking, travel etc., there is also the price of paying for the very experience, which is up to the consumer to decide if it's worth it or not, based on their personally perceived entertainment value.

If a person feels it's worth paying a subscription to experience classic wow, then the price is justified. Regardless of the quantifiable costs of producing the service.

That's again the thing it's not just entertainment, it's a license for a pice of software that's 15 years old being charged at the same monthly cost as a later version.

People need to get it out of there heads that games shouldn't be held to the same standards as any other software program and support service simply because its has some extra entertainment value. This road leads to games like fallout 76 and anthem, absolutely shoddy products but the company's had been slowly reducing quality for the same price for years up to then.

[Celarent]

WoW never had that "RPG freedom".

Nah, not agency -- what I mean is the point of view that emphasizes insignificance and uniqueness through limitations.

Some limitations are spatial, like the absence of third-person UI like missions, few menu-based transits, much more walking, long hearthstone cooldowns and such. Others are logistical, such as party necessity for quests and social skills for parties, consumables both in general and by specialization, and complementary class powers.

Subtle things -- "inconveniences" that were gradually eliminated over 10 years -- but which add up to a very different game.

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It's probly more like a car where its judged in appearance and performance.

Video games are not like heavily regulated personal transportation vehicles.

Your argument is more like "This distributor failed to take this release of Gilligan's Island and scan, reduce noise sharpen frame-by-frame and overhaul for 7.1, therefore customers should join a class action suit over being irresponsibly furnished 50-year-old yuks about castaway hijinks with coconuts."

[Contego]

That's again the thing it's not just entertainment, it's a license for a pice of software that's 15 years old being charged at the same monthly cost as a later version.

People need to get it out of there heads that games shouldn't be held to the same standards as any other software program and support service simply because its has some extra entertainment value. This road leads to games like fallout 76 and anthem, absolutely shoddy products but the company's had been slowly reducing quality for the same price for years up to then.

The same could be said for any sort of entertainment or art... "it's not just a painting, it's also paint on a canvas". "It's not just an album, it's also singers, instruments and mixing equipment", "it's not just a show, it's also actors and stage workers". It's like saying that if someone were to set-up a versjon of Romeo and Juliet, it should be free to watch since it isn't new.

Also, I'm not holding it up to the standards of other software, you are however. I'm comparing it to other services that we enjoy and that entertain us.

[Monster Hunter]

The same could be said for any sort of entertainment or art... "it's not just a painting, it's also paint on a canvas". "It's not just an album, it's also singers, instruments and mixing equipment", "it's not just a show, it's also actors and stage workers". It's like saying that if someone were to set-up a versjon of Romeo and Juliet, it should be free to watch since it isn't new.

Also, I'm not holding it up to the standards of other software, you are however. I'm comparing it to other services that we enjoy and that entertain us.

And it still falls short on value for money. Just on services.

You wouldn't say the monalisa painted on a potato is the same value, you wouldent say a Metallica album recorded on a wax roll is the same value, you wouldn't say break bad put in as a high school play was the same value.

Sure you may enjoy them, but it's nit the same value as a full modern day standard product and service.

For $14.99 You get with wow classic
2004 potato graphics
2004 potato performance
0 new content
0 future dev time
Half the Support we originally had
Take the money you pay to support the version you don't play
Half a games worth of quests
Half a games worth of working classes
And a bunch of target dummy bosses most people have allready seen.

There selling you Star craft 1 effectively at the same price as starcaft 2 and you mugs are eating up.

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Nah, not agency -- what I mean is the point of view that emphasizes insignificance and uniqueness through limitations.

Some limitations are spatial, like the absence of third-person UI like missions, few menu-based transits, much more walking, long hearthstone cooldowns and such. Others are logistical, such as party necessity for quests and social skills for parties, consumables both in general and by specialization, and complementary class powers.

Subtle things -- "inconveniences" that were gradually eliminated over 10 years -- but which add up to a very different game.

- - - Updated - - -


Video games are not like heavily regulated personal transportation vehicles.

Your argument is more like "This distributor failed to take this release of Gilligan's Island and scan, reduce noise sharpen frame-by-frame and overhaul for 7.1, therefore customers should join a class action suit over being irresponsibly furnished 50-year-old yuks about castaway hijinks with coconuts."

If he's charging the Sam damn price as the distributes who did then he's ripping people off.

Would you defend that guy selling an old shoddy product at modern day prices?

No ofc not. You may love classic but excusing charging a full sub for it is delusion of the highest order

[Kyriani]

At first I was really interested in Classic. Unfortunately my current dissatisfaction with the modern game has me unsubbed and I'm torn about subbing for classic because its rolled into the modern subscription. I don't want to support the current modern wow design paradigm in any way. Money is the only "feedback" Blizzard seems to even notice, let alone listen to. If I sub for classic, that gives them carte blanche to do whatever they want with modern because they would get my money anyway.

If I choose not to play classic, I am denying Blizzard my sub-money and on one hand I'm (hopefully) influencing the modern wow design philosophy in some small way... but at the same time I am also hurting classic and I really want classic to succeed. But I can't support classic without also supporting modern and I am having a hard time justifying that right now.

[Mister K]

No.
81 21.49%

Wait so why are yous reading the Classic sub?

[Contego]

No.
81 21.49%

Wait so why are yous reading the Classic sub?

Seems like alot of people are here on this sub only to tell others what they should and shouldn't enjoy.

[Shadowferal]

I'm unsure.
Not so much about subscribing, but about getting the internet altogether to begin with.
Turned off my service several years ago, and enured to going home without it seeing as how I only used it for bullshit and playing WoW. After quitting over WoD I just said "fuck it." I have so much more time to play with...just not sure anymore if I want to pay what I see as some exorbitant price to play a game which includes time as a price added in.

[kunah]

Seems like alot of people are here on this sub only to tell others what they should and shouldn't enjoy.

,,,,and then bicker endlessly.

[Mister K]

Seems like alot of people are here on this sub only to tell others what they should and shouldn't enjoy.

Same case for many other threads/subs on MMO-C Winey old women I guess...

[Contego]

Same case for many other threads/subs on MMO-C Winey old women I guess...

True, but this is really special. It's like going to a rap concert, and telling the audience that rap is terrible and that the concert will be just as bad. I get that people aren't interested and don't want to play classic, but I seriously don't get this obsessive need some people have to actively tell everyone why they won't enjoy the game.

[crono14]

Honestly? Laziness. I have been quite busy recently, it's probably a combination of forgetting I am still subscribed to the game and WoW retail just not being in my mind.

Yep this is how most companies with monthly subs bank on. People forget they are subbed to something and they don't check their statements. Then when you want to cancel, you have to jump through some damn hoops for some of them.

[Veggie50]

At first I was really interested in Classic. Unfortunately my current dissatisfaction with the modern game has me unsubbed and I'm torn about subbing for classic because its rolled into the modern subscription. I don't want to support the current modern wow design paradigm in any way. Money is the only "feedback" Blizzard seems to even notice, let alone listen to. If I sub for classic, that gives them carte blanche to do whatever they want with modern because they would get my money anyway.

If I choose not to play classic, I am denying Blizzard my sub-money and on one hand I'm (hopefully) influencing the modern wow design philosophy in some small way... but at the same time I am also hurting classic and I really want classic to succeed. But I can't support classic without also supporting modern and I am having a hard time justifying that right now.

If the subs were seperate, do you believe income from classic would not support modern wow? It’s the same company, your subscription money is not earmarked for use on specific games.

Blizzard won’t report on it, but they’ll have exact figures on who plays which version. MAU’s per version will direct them a whole lot more than creating a second revenue stream that ends up in the same bank account.

[Kyriani]

If the subs were seperate, do you believe income from classic would not support modern wow? It’s the same company, your subscription money is not earmarked for use on specific games.

Blizzard won’t report on it, but they’ll have exact figures on who plays which version. MAU’s per version will direct them a whole lot more than creating a second revenue stream that ends up in the same bank account.

My post wasn't about how Blizzard uses the money they get from classic but rather showing support for the franchise overall. Obviously I can't control where they spend income for their games. WoW financed a lot of the newer Blizzard titles after all. The difference in the case of Modern/Classic, is that its all rolled under one sub.

So if WoW is making X number of dollars and has X number of subs as a whole, I'm fairly certain those public shareholder reports are going to showcase it as "wow is doing better than we projected" rather than "classic is doing well, but modern isn't doing as well as we expected, but because classic picked up the slack, wow overall looks to be in a better position than it would have been had classic not gotten back a bunch of subs who left us".

And my greatest fear is that Blizzard will use the "success" of classic to justify their "keep throwing darts at the dartboard each xpac... seeing what sticks... and then throwing it all away in the next xpac" design philosophy, as they leave good ideas behind or find reasons/ways to make them worse.

Sure Blizzard is going to have the numbers that show this many people are playing classic, and that many are playing modern, but I don't feel like I should support WoW at all because I don't like the modern design philosophy and they just aren't providing the experience I am looking for anymore. I know I would enjoy classic, but at the same time, I would feel like playing classic would equate to me "approving" of what direction the devs are going with modern wow because they both fall under the same umbrella.

I don't want to support the current design philosophy. And if I pay for a wow sub, even if I only ever play classic from this point forward, my fear is that the devs will just use that as justification to keep pushing their "vision" (and changing that "vision" every f'ing xpac) in modern wow.

I recognize that my position is an emotional and subjective one, and possibly even irrational, but it's how I feel. I mean I look at how much damage WoD did to the franchise and how quick Blizzard was (relatively speaking) to wind down WoD and course correct in Legion. That's not to say Legion was perfect, Blizzard had a few bad ideas there too, but it was a HUGE step up from WoD to me. Legion gave me hope that because of the catastrophe that WoD was, that Blizzard would be more mindful of player feedback going forward, that they'd look back at things that worked and were popular and incorporate more things like those, that they'd stop making changes just for the sake of change every xpac, that they'd realize that sometimes round wheels are round enough and they don't need to be changed just to "keep things fresh". Not everything needs to be "shaken up" every friggin xpac. There's something to be said for consistency.

Alas they just fell back into their usual mindset of "we know better than you do what you want and what you will enjoy and you'll take what we give you and like it".

The video they just released of Ion talking up 8.2 and design going forward just felt like bullshit to me. He kept trying to reinforce the fact that wow is an RPG... except I don't think Ion even knows what makes an RPG an RPG anymore and he was just using RPG as a buzzword. I saw that video as a PR fluff piece of non-relevance. It was just a longer fancier version of the same old tired "we've learned from our mistakes and plan to do better" yarn they spin every time. Call me cynical, but these days, when it comes to Blizzard, I believe half of what I see and none of what I hear until it actually goes live. And more often than not I am disappointed when it does.

I honestly feel like modern wow just isn't being designed for players like me anymore. And that may well be the case. Classic is basically going to be pure profit once its set up since there's likely no new development happening for it going forward. So all that revenue either goes into modern wow or other Blizzard titles, and I just can't trust that Blizzard will take design cues from classic if its successful... or if they do, they won't just take the worst aspects of classic and somehow work them into modern rather than taking the best aspects of classic. So it may well be that I need to step away from wow entirely until I see an actual change in modern's design philosophy and if that change results in a game that actually provides the experience I am looking for. Otherwise I need to look elsewhere for that experience.

[MuricaIsDead]

Using up my gold on retail for my sub to classic. After that I'll just pay for classic with $.

[Hyral]

I'm getting what I wanted out of Classic from other games so not really.

[Charge me Doctor]

True, but this is really special. It's like going to a rap concert, and telling the audience that rap is terrible and that the concert will be just as bad. I get that people aren't interested and don't want to play classic, but I seriously don't get this obsessive need some people have to actively tell everyone why they won't enjoy the game.

It's more like alarming bunch people that wearing KKK outfit to a rap concert is a bad idea and they should think about what's going to happen.

[Geckomayhem]

I am of the mind that the Classic community will make it worth coming back for. I started a pre-release guild and already people have been showing interest. The interest is there, and people are keen to experience it in a fresh, new light.