WC3 Reforged Lore hopes

[Th3Scourge]

Well if only added more dialogues for Arthas and maybe Kel, that would be a welcome addition but they already said they will make others characters like Jaina, Sylvanas, Sadfang to take a more prominent role.

Jaina and Sylvanas already had prominent roles. I hope they don't pull a Legion and retcon the shit out of the lore.

[varren]

No changes hopefully..makes me glad Starcraft Remastered was purely a graphics upgrade and didn't touch the story at all.

[DemonHunter18]

its always the "current" or "official" reality that the lore is garbage, quite interesting

yeah and sad as well.

[Triceron]

No changes hopefully..makes me glad Starcraft Remastered was purely a graphics upgrade and didn't touch the story at all.

Not happening. Changes are abound in Reforged.

Blood Elves will have Green Eyes for example, a lore invention introduced in TBC. Christie Golden talked about adding more lines to Sylvanas and Jaina too, and possibly some more lines to Arthas regarding raising Invincible.

[DemonHunter18]

No changes hopefully..makes me glad Starcraft Remastered was purely a graphics upgrade and didn't touch the story at all.

this as well.

[Leodric]

Jaina and Sylvanas already had prominent roles. I hope they don't pull a Legion and retcon the shit out of the lore.

Not only that, but imo WC3 had already major character roles given to Thrall, Arthas, Illidan and many more. Jaina had a lot of attention already if we count the bonus campaign with Rexxar as well. Don't feel like adding more story to Sylvanas in WC3 would be needed as well since her character arc is well explained in the games.

Saurfang on the other hand might be a more plausible thing, maybe they can add him as some kind of "special" unit as they've done with many minor lore characters already in the game. Adding him as a hero unit would be too much though.

[Grazrug]

Not only that, but imo WC3 had already major character roles given to Thrall, Arthas, Illidan and many more. Jaina had a lot of attention already if we count the bonus campaign with Rexxar as well. Don't feel like adding more story to Sylvanas in WC3 would be needed as well since her character arc is well explained in the games.

Saurfang on the other hand might be a more plausible thing, maybe they can add him as some kind of "special" unit as they've done with many minor lore characters already in the game. Adding him as a hero unit would be too much though.

Did I miss something? When exactly did they give sylvanas characterization again? She was used as plot device for years now.

[Sangris]

Not happening. Changes are abound in Reforged.

Blood Elves will have Green Eyes for example, a lore invention introduced in TBC. Christie Golden talked about adding more lines to Sylvanas and Jaina too, and possibly some more lines to Arthas regarding raising Invincible.

The Blood Elf eye thing isn't entirely new though. Priests in TFT already have a green glow, whereas they have a blue one in RoC.

[Triceron]

The Blood Elf eye thing isn't entirely new though. Priests in TFT already have a green glow, whereas they have a blue one in RoC.

Yeah but that was more coincidental than deliberate. Kinda like having the Blackrock clan have actual black skin or Chaos Orcs having spikes and larger fangs, these things weren't present in WC3 even if one of the skins is 'darker' or teeth look 'spikier'.

The green eye thing is very clearly present in Kael'thas icon and the Spellbreaker model in Reforged. It's not something featured in TFT. Even WOW has revised a blue-eyes version of Kael'thas that you meet during the Blood Elf Heritage Armor flashback scenes.

[Leodric]

Did I miss something? When exactly did they give sylvanas characterization again? She was used as plot device for years now.

Play the RoC and tft campaign

[Reinhart11]

One standout of BFA is that now whenever I remember how much Mists pissed me off I can rest easy knowing that at least we didn't get a Mists where noblesavage Garrosh is inspired by Anduin to plead with Varian for his assistance to restore honor to the Horde from Sylvanas. And all the other orcs are still baddies because we need raid fodder.

Just wait. Garrosh will return. In the form of AU Lightforged Paladin Garrosh, who will love Baine, Saurfang and Thrall and who will have a natural understanding for human potential and his new Overlord Anduin. And of course Blizzard will tell us, how much better this version of Garrosh is. So i don't think they are quite done with castrating Orcs and at this point Mag'har as well.

[Super Dickmann]

Just wait. Garrosh will return. In the form of AU Lightforged Paladin Garrosh, who will love Baine, Saurfang and Thrall and who will have a natural understanding for human potential and his new Overlord Anduin. And of course Blizzard will tell us, how much better this version of Garrosh is. So i don't think they are quite done with castrating Orcs and at this point Mag'har as well.

The Mag'har are my hope in this. I can only dream that they're too irrelevant to ruin so they'll be allowed to keep their badly needed niche now that the main orcs and the Forsaken have been Anduinized. If not, I'd almost look forward to Exarch Garrosh Heavenwhisper coming to the MU to put the heretics out of their misery.

[Wyrt]

I don't want Golden to touch the story at all. She'll ruin it.

[Mehrunes]

Considering I wasn't even talking to you, before you whine about context, you might try reading the posts I responded to. But since you've proved again you're only interested in flaming and baiting, back on ignore you go.

Really now? Let's review this claim of yours.

First of all, Garrosh didn't align himself with Magatha. Secondly, before crawling to the Alliance Baine made the conscious choice not to approach any other Horde leader for help.

Might have something to do with the Warchief of the Horde having killed his father like the day before. They wouldn't be my first choice either.

Don't expect them to have any empathy for the characters or to try to understand their motivations.

I don't know, I think they have a pretty good grasp of Baine's character. He cared objectively less about his dad's death and his city's takeover than he cared about the brother of his human masters being raised from the dead. After all his reaction to the former was to let the first party responsible go and be the second's defense attorney without even considering how his dad's poor decisions got him there. On the other hand, when it comes to those who dared harm Jaina's anointed bloodline they are killed on the spot.

2) With #1 firmly in mind, i.e. that future stories are always only vaguely connected to past and present, rewind back to Cata. This is where my comment about empathy comes in. Seeing a father die peacefully of old age causes lasting grief in normal cases, now how much more so in the case of a violent death? Asking Baine to simply dismiss his father's death objectively as his own fault (when it wasn't 100%) and simply work with his father's killer as if nothing happened is asking him to be a sociopath, someone who simply does not feel emotions like a healthy person. Complain that it's irrational or illogical for him to blame Garrosh, but you have to realize it's completely understandable for the character. Someone kills his father over a misunderstanding and he's supposed to just shrug and act like nothing happened?

If you weren't too busy writing enlightened messages like "herp, derp" and instead devoted your time to the arduous task of following context, you'd have realized that in the post in regards to which your comment about empathy comes in Baine wasn't actually asked to "simply work with his father's killer as if nothing happened". He was asked, or more specifically criticized for not doing so, to work with the Horde leaders. Horde leaders, that as per the bit of the Shattering that was the subject, didn't even include Garrosh at all. Meaning that your comment about empathy comes in nowhere, because you have no clue about what you're talking about. Some "attempt at depth" that's totally not you making pointless jabs because of your own tribalism (because you're obviously devoid of that) that you got here.

This is the chain of posts that led to your post I'm replying to here. Your post in bold is your first post on this topic. And as can be clearly seen from what you were replying to, i.e. Biselody's reply to me, that said post of yours was about me and my post. And just because you didn't quote me directly doesn't change that, so I'm not sure why you're even trying to pretend otherwise, or why you even bothered not replying to me. Because if it was for the sake of plausible deniability, it doesn't really work given how I just can quote the entire exchange as I have done here.

So let's not look at the point in italics+bold in your later post, i.e. your reply to Super Dickmann, i.e. the post I replied to previously in the post you were quoting in your final reply. What's that? Oh, it's you claiming that said post of yours is related to your initial post (in bold), i.e. your commentary on my earlier claim about Baine.

Meaning my subsequent reply was on point and my grasp of context is just fine. And so is the subject of that post, because your aforementioned reply to Briselody (in bold), i.e. "where your comment about empathy came in" as you stated in the later post in actuality comes in nowhere, because you've misrepresented what I said and are completely unaware of the specifics of the part of The Shattering that was being discussed.

[Rozz]

Everyone please keep in mind this is a thread about WC3 speculation. Lets avoid inadvertent derailing and focus on OP's topic for civil discussion.

[Syegfryed]

Yeah but that was more coincidental than deliberate. Kinda like having the Blackrock clan have actual black skin or Chaos Orcs having spikes and larger fangs, these things weren't present in WC3 even if one of the skins is 'darker' or teeth look 'spikier'.

The green eye thing is very clearly present in Kael'thas icon and the Spellbreaker model in Reforged. It's not something featured in TFT. Even WOW has revised a blue-eyes version of Kael'thas that you meet during the Blood Elf Heritage Armor flashback scenes.

i mean, maybe they just didn't know how to differentiate eye color, and actually eye glow from the magic they use, and now are retconing.

i remember some warcraft 2 units having green eyes, like Alleria.

[Triceron]

i mean, maybe they just didn't know how to differentiate eye color, and actually eye glow from the magic they use, and now are retconing.

i remember some warcraft 2 units having green eyes, like Alleria.

It was a deliberate decision in TBC to do so. Classically they have blue eyes, but when they were added to the Horde they were given Green eyes to separate any association with the Alliance colors. IMO it's more of an aesthetic and game design/theme decision than lore. That's why this ended up retconning what we saw in WC3, namely because the Blood Elves were not associated with the Horde and weren't intended to join at that time. Dragonhawks, Sorceress and even Kael'thas had either white or blue eyes. Fel green wasn't definitive until later in WoW's lifespan; we know this because Warlocks were designed with red flame since the beginning and even Pit Lord's WC3 Rain of Fire spell used red flames. Even Illidan's fight in Black Temple used Blue flames.

It's also kinda the same what they did with the Draenei and making them ex-Eredar, even though there's almost no similar features between the WC3 Outland Draenei and the Eredar. They had to design the Broken just to bridge the two concepts. It's like trying to tie the Orcs and Trolls together as one mutated offshoot of the other. It was a very forced design decision, but you could tell they were really trying to push that whole Red vs Blue concept with the race choices at the time.

[Ujimasa Hojo]

I am interested if they'll expand the Blood Elves, Forsaken, and Naga techtrees during the Frozen Throne campaigns.

[Zandalariprelate]

Talking about changes, perhaps they will change how magic works and definition? Back in the day necromancy was considered part of the arcane magic school and that was the reason the magic barrier of KT worked during the siege of the city but now that we know it's actually death magic or Gromm corruption which is fel magic a now separated magic from the "raw arcane", will that kind of things change? I hope we got some book/codex about that in-game.

[matrix123mko]

I am interested if they'll expand the Blood Elves, Forsaken, and Naga techtrees during the Frozen Throne campaigns.

I wonder if they will.

- - - Updated - - -

Talking about changes, perhaps they will change how magic works and definition? Back in the day necromancy was considered part of the arcane magic school and that was the reason the magic barrier of KT worked during the siege of the city but now that we know it's actually death magic or Gromm corruption which is fel magic a now separated magic from the "raw arcane", will that kind of things change? I hope we got some book/codex about that in-game.

Yes, this is indeed interesting.