Pokemon, Part 2

[Mamushi]

Just read through the last few pages and I can't believe what I'm seeing... Yeah, I won't be buying the games for sure this time.

[Yunru]

So japanese are trolling mashuda by doing a pokemon models in 5 minutes and calling him lazy:


Here is a example:
http://is2.4chan.org/vp/1560564274835.jpg
http://is2.4chan.org/vp/1560564383709.jpg
http://is2.4chan.org/vp/1560564467030.jpg

http://is2.4chan.org/vp/1560564603457.jpg
http://is2.4chan.org/vp/1560564675874.jpg
http://is2.4chan.org/vp/1560564751118.jpg
http://is2.4chan.org/vp/1560564821077.jpg
And many more...

[Gracin]

So I don't really follow any of the popular Pokestreamers, but how has their response to this shitshow been? I know we're all worried that they will white knight for Gamefreak, but are there any that have put out reaction videos similar to the one @Yunru posted?

On a side note I was talking with my younger cousin today, and he asked how I felt about S&S. Told him it was shit what they're doing, and I was leaning towards not buying it. He hadn't heard about the cutting of the pokemon and the horrible reasons why. As soon as I told him he was shocked that they would fuck fans over like that.

[Adramalech]

So I don't really follow any of the popular Pokestreamers, but how has their response to this shitshow been? I know we're all worried that they will white knight for Gamefreak, but are there any that have put out reaction videos similar to the one @Yunru posted?

On a side note I was talking with my younger cousin today, and he asked how I felt about S&S. Told him it was shit what they're doing, and I was leaning towards not buying it. He hadn't heard about the cutting of the pokemon and the horrible reasons why. As soon as I told him he was shocked that they would fuck fans over like that.

The only ones I'm subbed to on Youtube that I've seen posting any video on the subject have been TyranitarTube and pokeaimmd, who are incredibly different from each other in terms of content. TTar is more of a general Let's Play and Nuzlocking kind of guy, while Aim is pretty much exclusively competitive, though he does dab in the aforementioned content from time to time.

I was surprised to see TTar actually being against this move, although unlike us anonymous forum dwellers, he didn't use language quite as colorful as we do, and didn't exactly throw rocks at Game Freak's glass ceiling.

Aim (and his friends on the video) was, sadly, but not unexpectedly, analyzing things more from a competitive standpoint. They were of the opinion that none of this is a big deal, that it might be healthy for competitive (compared to TCG card rotations), and that coupled with the removal of Z-moves that this might give other pokemon a chance to shine.

I'm not going to pretend to know more of competitive than this guy does. But outside of the pokemon we've seen on video, we have no clue of who's in or who's not. How can you really say if the influence in the meta will be positive or negative? Obviously you won't have to deal with any Mega anymore, or any potential Z. But from what I gather from Dynamax, it has the potential to be a lot more broken (which I initially didn't think at all).

It doesn't require an item, so any of your 6 members can Dynamax at any time. Obviously there will be wrong and right times to do so, but it is still an element that is much less predictable since it isn't limited by items. If you see a Charizard, Mawile, Swampert, or Venusaur in OU, they will 99% of the time be Mega (except Venusaur if you're running a Sun team or some crap like that). You can scout for the Z, depending on team setup you can even somewhat predict who might be carrying it.

Dynamax seems to only boost your HP stat massively, Zygarde-Complete style, and change all your moves to Max moves. But these moves, not only do they have huge base power, they also have overpowered secondary effects. Such as setting weather and terrains, reducing stats, and so on. Considering every status move becomes Max Guard, I'm assuming you can't Protect against Max moves, or it'll let a % of the damage through like Z-moves did, and that the only way to fully defend is with your own Max Guard. It only lasts 3 turns, but depending on your move combination, it could lead to some absolutely broken setups that instantly decide a match.

I could be completely wrong, but I feel like Dynamax will be a much bigger clusterfuck for competitive Pokemon than Z-moves and Megas were. I think people vastly overestimate just how "broken" Megas actually were. Only a select few are actually really that powerful. Z-moves were much worse. I fear Dynamax will overshadow both of them and break things far more.


In any case, it feels like even the Poketuber scene is split on this issue. Naturally it's in their interest to defend the games, their incomes are proportional to the game's popularity, but it's still disappointing that they'll gobble it up so easily and just shrug it off.

Maybe if the competitive meta goes to absolute shit they'll actually change their stances, but by then it'll be too late.

[Lahis]

What I've seen, mosg of are either silent or Whiteknighting.

The silent might be agaisnt it, but can't say it to retain their favour with Nintendo.

[Well]

Post.

For competitive, it does not matter. It is not an argument one can have: Smogon hosts its own brackets and formats. They tier pokemon via their rules, and just because of that, every pokemon has had a tier to be in since its inception.

Taking mons COMPLETELY out of a game is just deleting them: Smogon, if it will keep on representing what is available in the game and what isn't (for instance, certain berries being available when officially released, event moves and tutor moves being available on certain mons or not) will not include those pokemon in the available pool. That means that for instance, an OU team won't be able to use Furret if that pokemon is deemed unworthy of being in S&S, no matter the fact that Furret is NU and would be eligible in 7th gen. It will be illegal to use it, since it cannot be in the games no matter what.

But even if one considers how the meta that concerns a terribly small percentage of the population will change, it will not be more diverse: fewer choices simply lead to fewer teams, which lead to a competitive environment that gets saturated much quicker than one that after ~6 months would be injected by the arrival of the Pokebank and the move tutor pokemon that would come to join the 8th generation meta.

There's absolutely no way in which one might argue in favour of this move. It is negative in literally ALL fronts. Taking choice away from a game that is literally about picking your pokemon for an adventure is a clearly greedy move. There's no defending it.

[Lahis]

Taking mons COMPLETELY out of a game is just deleting them: Smogon, if it will keep on representing what is available in the game and what isn't (for instance, certain berries being available when officially released, event moves and tutor moves being available on certain mons or not) will not include those pokemon in the available pool. That means that for instance, an OU team won't be able to use Furret if that pokemon is deemed unworthy of being in S&S, no matter the fact that Furret is NU and would be eligible in 7th gen. It will be illegal to use it, since it cannot be in the games no matter what.

They already announced they'll do full ladder:

[Well]

So, the competitive community will just ignore the changes in S&S then. How did it change competitive then?

The balance argument is just pure non-sense.

- - - Updated - - -

Smogon also said that what I described in my first post is actually accurate. The "include all" pokemon will be an OM and will not be the main metagame.

[Yoshingo]

The best part is hearing them say that they can't do all the Pokemon because they can't do all that work.

Meanwhile nearly every single model that they spent dev time on in X&Y, the first 3D Pokemon, is still being used and they just copy/paste them over into the new ones. Watch for Blastoise, if it's even in the game, continuing to shoot water out of it's stupid face instead of the two cannons it has.

This is just a bunch of PR bullshit. They wanted to see if they can get away with not including all the pokemon and now that it seems like they will, we will never have another Pokemon game with the entire Dex in it it ever again.

Gotta Catch 'Em All is now Can Only Catch Some of 'Em.

The most pathetic people are the ones defending Game Freak. Congrats on doing free PR for them. You're playing yourself. I just wish it also wasn't fucking all of us over too.

[Lahis]

So, the competitive community will just ignore the changes in S&S then. How did it change competitive then?

The balance argument is just pure non-sense.

- - - Updated - - -

Smogon also said that what I described in my first post is actually accurate. The "include all" pokemon will be an OM and will not be the main metagame.

If/when the full ladder is more popular that SwSh simulator, can the latter be called the main metagame?

[Well]

If/when the full ladder is more popular that SwSh simulator, can the latter be called the main metagame?

What does it matter? It's Smogon. Does Game Freak care about how will Smogon make their brackets? What are we discussing here?

[Lahis]

What does it matter? It's Smogon. Does Game Freak care about how will Smogon make their brackets? What are we discussing here?

Showdown will be the only place you can play with all Pokémon. It does matter very much in this situation.


As for Game Freak not caring: they have never cared about competitive or balance. TPCI sets the VGC rules.

[TriHard]

So I've not been following it too much after E3, but did anyone respond to this yet?

Also, how are the Japanese people reacting to this compared to us Western people?

[Well]

Showdown will be the only place you can play with all Pokémon. It does matter very much in this situation.


As for Game Freak not caring: they have never cared about competitive or balance. TPCI sets the VGC rules.

Yes, Smogon will have an OM with all of the mons.

[Lahis]

So I've not been following it too much after E3, but did anyone respond to this yet?

Also, how are the Japanese people reacting to this compared to us Western people?

Game Freak is doubling down on their "It's too much work" rhetoric.

Japanese fans are just as pissed as we are.

[Yunru]

Game Freak is doubling down on their "It's too much work" rhetoric.

Japanese fans are just as pissed as we are.

So the rummors are true.

[TriHard]

Game Freak is doubling down on their "It's too much work" rhetoric.

Japanese fans are just as pissed as we are.

Glad to hear that they had the same reaction. Surely Nintendo has enough influence there to make a change for the players should they see that this is something we really want them to reconsider?
I hope Nintendo decides to put some pressure on them after seeing this whole debacle.

[Lahis]

Glad to hear that they had the same reaction. Surely Nintendo has enough influence there to make a change for the players should they see that this is something we really want them to reconsider?
I hope Nintendo decides to put some pressure on them after seeing this whole debacle.

Unfortunately, Nintendo owns only part of Pokemon. TPCI has the majority stake and they can't afford to delay games. It would ruin their marketing and merchatise sales.

[Nelavar]

It is in no way going to change for Sword and Shield, even a patch is extremely unlikely in my opinion because its just not really something GF has done in that kind of scale. They would be prone to fuck it up more than anything.

However the pressure might make them reconsider this stance for future pokemon games.

[Romeothecat]

So I've not been following it too much after E3, but did anyone respond to this yet?

I wouldn't expect them to. With so many shills defending this, addressing it would only create a striesand effect.