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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Funkenstein View Post
    No. I said exactly what I fucking meant.
    Then what you said was exactly fucking wrong.

    Peter Parker is currently Spider-Man. Miles Morales is also curently Spider-Man. Otto Octavius has been Spider-Man. Ben Reilly has been Spider-Man.
    Tony Stark is Iron Man. James Rhodes was also Iron Man. Victor Von Doom was Iron man. The Avengers once went back in time to bring a Teen Tony Stark into the present and he was Iron Man.
    Steve Rogers is Captain America. John Walker has also been Captain America. Bucky Barnes has also been Captain America. Sam Wilson has also been Captain America.

    The identities of Daredevil, Thor, Ghostrider, Captain Marvel, Wolverine, and many others have all been assumed by other characters.

    It has always been this way.

    It's not just Marvel either:

    Multiple different characters have all taken up the mantle of Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, etc.

    Super Hero identities are not exclusively tied to one character. They are mantles that can be passed along to others.
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Maruka View Post
    Im a fan of leaving old characters as is, and make new interesting characters from different aspects of humanity. The best of both worlds.
    They haven't done that successfully since the 70s. (The 80s had a lot of new faces...but they all reflected back to the "prototype" popular character)

  3. #63
    Pandaren Monk Tabrotar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    Then what you said was exactly fucking wrong.

    Peter Parker is currently Spider-Man. Miles Morales is also curently Spider-Man. Otto Octavius has been Spider-Man. Ben Reilly has been Spider-Man.
    Tony Stark is Iron Man. James Rhodes was also Iron Man. Victor Von Doom was Iron man. The Avengers once went back in time to bring a Teen Tony Stark into the present and he was Iron Man.
    Steve Rogers is Captain America. John Walker has also been Captain America. Bucky Barnes has also been Captain America. Sam Wilson has also been Captain America.

    The identities of Daredevil, Thor, Ghostrider, Captain Marvel, Wolverine, and many others have all been assumed by other characters.

    It has always been this way.

    It's not just Marvel either:

    Multiple different characters have all taken up the mantle of Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, etc.

    Super Hero identities are not exclusively tied to one character. They are mantles that can be passed along to others.
    Yeah shure let´s kill off/disable/whatever the old well know chars bcs fuck it otherwise w ehave to do work and fucking INVENT new chars which are original.

    But nah that would ber to much worl, see here we have old well known chars, lets just use their names...

  4. #64
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabrotar View Post
    Yeah shure let´s kill off/disable/whatever the old well know chars bcs fuck it otherwise w ehave to do work and fucking INVENT new chars which are original.

    But nah that would ber to much worl, see here we have old well known chars, lets just use their names...
    yes welcome to the 70's.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Ya Boy Kirk View Post
    Seems boring to do the same characters and character beats over and over and over and over again for 60 years. But that's just me I guess.
    Seems racist and sexist that it takes turning them black or women etc to make them "interesting".

  6. #66
    Only thing on Marvel's slate that I'm interested in is the upcoming X-Men books by Hickman. I admire Marvel Studios and what they've done, but the comics proper have been a disorganized dumpster fire utterly bereft of quality since Secret Wars ended, and even that wasn't that good.

  7. #67
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohwell View Post
    Seems racist and sexist that it takes turning them black or women etc to make them "interesting".
    characters tend to need new story lines to keep them interesting, no one was turned black or women they had new story lines while some one else had the mantle.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Tabrotar View Post
    Yeah shure let´s kill off/disable/whatever the old well know chars bcs fuck it otherwise w ehave to do work and fucking INVENT new chars which are original.

    But nah that would ber to much worl, see here we have old well known chars, lets just use their names...
    They do invent new characters. James Rhodes is a different character than Tony Stark. Erik Masterson is a different character than Thor Odinson. Laura Kinney is a different character than James Howlett.

    This is not a new thing. This has been happening in comics for longer than you have been alive.

    "Iron Man" isn't a character. It's an identity that a character assumes.
    Last edited by Evil Midnight Bomber; 2019-06-20 at 05:07 AM.
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  9. #69
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saninicus View Post
    A lot of them just plain didn't sell. Look at the incredible squirrel girl. Didn't help the art was (to me) hideous.
    Squirrel girl went on for 5 years she is not a good example of a comic doing poorly. She also isn’t one of the taking up the mantel characters.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ohwell View Post
    There was NOTHING to suggest several of them weren't. I guess we need Bucky to take over Black Panther's mantle to really send the point home to the racists and sexists out there......oh wait they'd scream white washing. Jane was written off(and yes it was due to sales) with something that wasn't there originally. She was to remain Thor(which is not a mantle, his hammer is what the mantle would be).
    This comment keeps nagging at me so I’m gonna reply to it again.

    How bloody stupid do you have to be to think that Jane was Suppose to stay Thor when we knew a year before her first issue that she’s not around in the future? your either lying or just hellishly ignorant, like did you ever even pick up a comic or did you just hear from some one online that she was suppose to stay Thor?

    Stuff like this is what’s wrong with comics people talking out there ass.

  10. #70
    Mechagnome Asaliah's Avatar
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    Is Captain America still part of hydra or it was just a giant joke?

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by ohwell View Post
    There was NOTHING to suggest several of them weren't.
    Nothing...other than decades of them doing exactly that. Jane Foster isn't the first time Thor has been replaced by another character wielding Mjolnir (Beta Ray Bill, Erik Masterson). The Odinson always returns eventually.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Asaliah View Post
    Is Captain America still part of hydra or it was just a giant joke?
    No, that's all over and done with now. It was the Red Skull altering Steve's memories making him believe he was always an undercover Hydra agent just waiting for the perfect opportunity. Yes, it was very dumb.
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Saninicus View Post
    I was wrong. Unbeatable squirrel girl.

    https://www.newsarama.com/45289-squi...ing-at-50.html
    That article states that it wasn't so much a cancellation as it was a creative decision to end the series.
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  13. #73
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saninicus View Post
    I was wrong. Unbeatable squirrel girl.

    https://www.newsarama.com/45289-squi...ing-at-50.html
    I mean the art is still hideous so you were on the money on that.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Tabrotar View Post
    Yeah shure let´s kill off/disable/whatever the old well know chars bcs fuck it otherwise w ehave to do work and fucking INVENT new chars which are original.

    But nah that would ber to much worl, see here we have old well known chars, lets just use their names...
    They create new characters all the time but people tend not to like ones that go outside the established archetypes which is why so many new characters are either successors to old ones or share their theme as part of a family.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ohwell View Post
    Seems racist and sexist that it takes turning them black or women etc to make them "interesting".
    Bucky Barnes isn't black or a woman, neither is Ben Reilly, Kaine, Doctor Octopus, Scott Lang, Daken, Flash Thompson or Eric Mastersson. Strange how people screeching about these changes never seem to care if the change doesn't involve a different demographic.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post

    Bucky Barnes isn't black or a woman, neither is Ben Reilly, Kaine, Doctor Octopus, Scott Lang, Daken, Flash Thompson or Eric Mastersson. Strange how people screeching about these changes never seem to care if the change doesn't involve a different demographic.
    Yeah, my favourite example(Which i mentioned earlier in the thread) is when all these folks were getting so upset about Riri Williams "replacing" Iron Man (which she never did...she was always Iron Heart) Dr. Fucking Doom was also running around actually as Iron Man...and none of them batted an eye. I guess it's okay when a Rich White Guy with an Oversized Ego is replaced by another Rich White Guy with an Oversized Ego.
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  16. #76
    Hopefully now Marvel will offer Christopher Priest something other than Black characters to write.

  17. #77
    Pandaren Monk Tabrotar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    They do invent new characters. James Rhodes is a different character than Tony Stark. Erik Masterson is a different character than Thor Odinson. Laura Kinney is a different character than James Howlett.

    This is not a new thing. This has been happening in comics for longer than you have been alive.

    "Iron Man" isn't a character. It's an identity that a character assumes.
    Point is those chars you named where before way way before they took over the roll for a certain time. I speak of Miles, Khamala or Riri who were invented to take the name bcs otherwise none of them would have had ANY fucking success.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Tabrotar View Post
    Point is those chars you named where before way way before they took over the roll for a certain time. I speak of Miles, Khamala or Riri who were invented to take the name bcs otherwise none of them would have had ANY fucking success.
    Masterson was created for the purpose of becoming Thor.
    Riri never took the name. She has always been Ironheart.
    Khamala took the name after Carol became Captain Marvel...so the Ms. Marvel identity had already been vacated a year earlier.
    Miles took the name as tribute to the "dead" Peter Parker of Earth 1610.
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Tabrotar View Post
    Point is those chars you named where before way way before they took over the roll for a certain time. I speak of Miles, Khamala or Riri who were invented to take the name bcs otherwise none of them would have had ANY fucking success.
    So you're cool with Jane Foster becoming Thor and Amadeus Cho being the Hulk? What are your thoughts on characters like Ben Reilley and Kaine who were brought in as clear copies of Spider-Man but didn't take the name immediately?

  20. #80
    Pandaren Monk Tabrotar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    Masterson was created for the purpose of becoming Thor.
    Riri never took the name. She has always been Ironheart.
    Khamala took the name after Carol became Captain Marvel...so the Ms. Marvel identity had already been vacated a year earlier.
    Miles took the name as tribute to the "dead" Peter Parker of Earth 1610.
    She took over for Tony as he was "occupied" with his life and was nowhere seen before. Point 1.

    Miles was nowhere seen before Peter was dead. Point 2.

    Khamala was also nowhere seen before. Point 3.

    Aka all these chars were only created bcs they (in what way ever) got rid of the old chars so that they could leech of their popularity.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    So you're cool with Jane Foster becoming Thor and Amadeus Cho being the Hulk? What are your thoughts on characters like Ben Reilley and Kaine who were brought in as clear copies of Spider-Man but didn't take the name immediately?
    If it´s a established char and they have a good story why they take over (not like Miles for example) i´m ok with that.

    But if it´s only bcs they alone never would have been popular then i´m not ok with that.

    Rhodes takes over for Tony was more then ok bcs he was arround, was Tonys longstanding friend and hade experience with the armor and so on.

    Miles never seen before Peters death, was shitting his pants (as seen in flashbacks) on the thaugt of doing hero stuff but suddenly afte rPeter died in a horrible bloddy way it was somehow ok for him and ofc they also had to have May and gwen being ok with him and as if that wasn´t enough they also had to bring 616 Peter over to gave him his blessing.

    Funny how they had to do this, seems like they werew afraid that he wouldn´t be liked otherwise...

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