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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    Well he was at least the final boss of BC. It was only ok, in my opinion anyway, for him to be a mid-expansion boss in Legion when I, and many others (foolishly) thought that would be because Sargeras would be the final boss of Legion... then they pulled Argus the Unmaker out of the same ass that Void Elves came out of and the rest is history.
    Yeahp, it was dumb. One of the very few tiers I didn't complete, even with a pretty neat mount...

  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    Debatable, especially since it's been stated Azshara was more powerful than Deathwing, and Deathwing himself was the final boss and focal point of the expansion he featured in. Given what we've seen Sargegas perceive of Azshara, she's on the level or Archimonde and Kil'jaeden, worthy of his service and respect, hardly the qualities a Gul'dan would possess who is nothing more to Sargeras than the lowest of disposable servants and not a high ranking lieutenant or a respectable powerful mortal as he saw Azshara to be.

    I still don't see how Garrosh should have been the final boss over Lei-Shen, or how Azshara should precede N'zoth. The Lich King did not precede Yogg-saron, and while Azshara is nowhere near as popular as Arthas, she is still more popular and important story-wise than N'zoth who essentially serves the same role as the other 4 interchangeable Old Gods who are nothing more than 2-dimensional plot devices spewing cheese ball lines from their 20 mouths and 30 eyeballs.

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    Well he was at least the final boss of BC. It was only ok, in my opinion anyway, for him to be a mid-expansion boss in Legion when I, and many others (foolishly) thought that would be because Sargeras would be the final boss of Legion... then they pulled Argus the Unmaker out of the same ass that Void Elves came out of and the rest is history.
    Where is it stated that she's more powerful than Deathwing, especially Cata DW? And by whom? I don't remember that bit at all, only that Mannoroth thought her about as powerful as KJ or Archimonde... two beings that are far more plot-relevant than her and who both were mid-tier bosses in passing.

    As for Sargeras respecting her, qué? He had eyes only for Azeroth, she was a pawn like any other, to be used in his invasion.

  3. #243
    Keanu is Breathtaking.
    Ion is Underwhelming.

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    Where is it stated that she's more powerful than Deathwing, especially Cata DW? And by whom? I don't remember that bit at all, only that Mannoroth thought her about as powerful as KJ or Archimonde... two beings that are far more plot-relevant than her and who both were mid-tier bosses in passing.

    As for Sargeras respecting her, qué? He had eyes only for Azeroth, she was a pawn like any other, to be used in his invasion.
    Azshara was on the level of Kil'Jaeden before the sundering, seeing as how the dragons did not do all too well during War of the Ancients, it can be surmised that Kil'jaeden is stronger than the Aspects. Now I know Deathwing is the strongest of the Aspects, especially after his treachery with the Dragon Soul and then being empowered by N'zoth, but Azshara was also empowered by N'zoth without losing her sanity to boot, so it is not within the unlikely realm to estimate Azshara has surpassed Deathwing's power. Is it a lore stated fact? No, but the clues are there.

    Well yeah, everyone and everything is a pawn to Sargeras, but that doesn't mean he doesn't respect his highest lieutenants (Kil'jaeden/Archimonde/Azshara) more than lower servants such as Gul'dan, or else he wouldn't trust them to lead his crusade.

  5. #245
    Cool, a new patch. Happy news.

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    Azshara was on the level of Kil'Jaeden before the sundering, seeing as how the dragons did not do all too well during War of the Ancients, it can be surmised that Kil'jaeden is stronger than the Aspects. Now I know Deathwing is the strongest of the Aspects, especially after his treachery with the Dragon Soul and then being empowered by N'zoth, but Azshara was also empowered by N'zoth without losing her sanity to boot, so it is not within the unlikely realm to estimate Azshara has surpassed Deathwing's power. Is it a lore stated fact? No, but the clues are there.

    Well yeah, everyone and everything is a pawn to Sargeras, but that doesn't mean he doesn't respect his highest lieutenants (Kil'jaeden/Archimonde/Azshara) more than lower servants such as Gul'dan, or else he wouldn't trust them to lead his crusade.
    Holy lore assumptions Batman. Is Garrosh also stronger than Deathwing, considering he explicitly was not corrupted by the Heart of Y'shaarj, a stronger OG than N'zoth? Or maybe is it that Azshara was rotten and did not require corruption to serve N'zoth, whereas Neltharion was a fairly benevolent Aspect before he was twisted beyond recognition. Your clues mean little as these are completely different scenarios, and your claim rests on little but hype for her.

    And what crusade has Azshara led? Archimonde led the Legion forces during the War of the Ancients in Sargeras's stead. Azshara's role was literally that of Gul'dan in Legion: convenient portal opener.

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    Holy lore assumptions Batman. Is Garrosh also stronger than Deathwing, considering he explicitly was not corrupted by the Heart of Y'shaarj, a stronger OG than N'zoth? Or maybe is it that Azshara was rotten and did not require corruption to serve N'zoth, whereas Neltharion was a fairly benevolent Aspect before he was twisted beyond recognition. Your clues mean little as these are completely different scenarios, and your claim rests on little but hype for her.

    And what crusade has Azshara led? Archimonde led the Legion forces during the War of the Ancients in Sargeras's stead. Azshara's role was literally that of Gul'dan in Legion: convenient portal opener.
    Neltharion benevolent? Hardly when he already conspired for power long before N'zoth dug his shady tentacles into his brain. I don't even think Garrosh was stronger than Lei Shen to be honest. Garrosh in his mortal guise was matched evenly with Cairne Bloodhoof. He had Y'shaarj's heart; what is that but a pulsing organ with remnant power of an Old God who's been dead how long? It gave him a substantial power up that allowed him to make sport of Thrall (which is no small feat sure) but it hardly made him as strong as Lei Shen or anyone comparable.

    If Azshara was as strong as Kil'jaeden and Archimonde 10 thousand years ago, and it can be implied she has grown stronger since being empowered, much like Deathwing, is it not a sweeping assumption that Deathwing is indeed stronger than Azshara if Kil'jaeden is proven more powerful than any of the aspects then, and Azshara was on equal footing with him?

    Azshara led no crusades, it was an example that if her power was equal to Kil'jaeden and Archimonde BACK THEN as Mannoroth concluded, then she would be viewed as equal to them in Sargegras' eyes. The only difference is she didn't become subservient to Sargeras whereas they did.

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    Neltharion benevolent? Hardly when he already conspired for power long before N'zoth dug his shady tentacles into his brain. I don't even think Garrosh was stronger than Lei Shen to be honest. Garrosh in his mortal guise was matched evenly with Cairne Bloodhoof. He had Y'shaarj's heart; what is that but a pulsing organ with remnant power of an Old God who's been dead how long? It gave him a substantial power up that allowed him to make sport of Thrall (which is no small feat sure) but it hardly made him as strong as Lei Shen or anyone comparable.

    If Azshara was as strong as Kil'jaeden and Archimonde 10 thousand years ago, and it can be implied she has grown stronger since being empowered, much like Deathwing, is it not a sweeping assumption that Deathwing is indeed stronger than Azshara if Kil'jaeden is proven more powerful than any of the aspects then, and Azshara was on equal footing with him?

    Azshara led no crusades, it was an example that if her power was equal to Kil'jaeden and Archimonde BACK THEN as Mannoroth concluded, then she would be viewed as equal to them in Sargegras' eyes. The only difference is she didn't become subservient to Sargeras whereas they did.
    The only reason Thrall lost was because Garrosh twisted the elementals for miles around so Thrall couldn't use his powers. (Although you would have thought Thrall would have realized that after raiding all of Orgrimmar to reach that point but whatever.)

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    I mean business is trying to make money/put some competition up? What a malicious practice. Capitalists are evil!
    Hey nice strawman, but the problem is they delayed 8.2, most likely.

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by Dastreus View Post
    Hey nice strawman, but the problem is they delayed 8.2, most likely.
    I just couldn't stop my self. Putting strawmans up not different for assuming something tho. Problem is you have no clue, most likely.

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by Azmoden View Post
    Those who pre-ordered FF's next expansion will get to play it as soon as the 28th, so it's really more like 3 days before.

    Smart move on Blizz's part, people still have to resub an entire month just to keep themselves busy during these 3 days.
    They also needed to curb the hemorrhaging of subscription numbers and MAU's in time for the Q2 financial reports.

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by Howlrunner View Post
    Why all the hype for a patch that will most likely be buggy to fuck? I mean, they will literally be testing until the 11th hour to try to get rid of as many as possible, rather than wait a month or so to make sure it is as clean and tested as can be, and they will fail to the most part. Will be an unbalanced mess, as it usual for recent Blizz patch work.
    The release date is absolutely nothing to do with FF14 new expansion release that has swallowed a load of their subs already. No, sirree.

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    Are you for real?

    They are still testing the damn raids from June 21st-24th, one day before release. That is not a delayed product, that is one that has been pushed forward.
    Well wtf took them so long? We've known about it for half a year.

  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by JacobusRex View Post
    I hate only lazy game developers too set in their ways, failing to innovate, failing to listen, failing to make FUN experiences that don't involve beating your head against the ceiling. I hated the "BiS gear system" and I loath Classic because of it. That system is highly elitist and does nothing to solve the problem. The gear that was "BiS" was still made trivial when the next expansion released instead of being improvable with crafting and time.

    "Progressing gear and becoming stronger..." is enjoyable so long as the gear is meaningful, worthwhile, non-trivial, which the gear in this game is not. There's nothing to customize, nothing to add, nothing of substance in the gear at all besides trivial little bumps to "trivial main-stat, trivial health-stat, trivial secondary stat 1, trivial secondary stat 2" Not everyone wants to do the same exact thing, let alone week after week, month after month. There are far better systems that could be implemented.

    Seasons is a terrible system for an RPG of any kind. Making everything you just got meaningless because the next "season" has higher stats is not quality, it's not innovative and it disregards all the work you did for the gear you managed to get at the time. That's a terrible system.

    Your entire argument is rage at the simple truth that WoW current and WoW Classic are just made of a vertical one-track progression system and a few facebook games that are just easy-to-make, low-effort, easily maintained systems put in place by a company that suffers greatly from the George Lucas Effect.
    ah so you want a system that has never existed in WoW!....

  14. #254
    8.2 will flop just as hard as the rest of BFA
    Non nobis Domine, non nobis, sed nomini tuo da gloriam

  15. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    Forgive me - *huge compared to what they are now. How many people do you suppose left EQ or RS because WoW came out?

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    Maybe - maybe not. Ion (and thus, Blizzard) finally acknowledging how poor some aspects of the game have become is promising for 9.0 at least

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    Plus Garrosh in SoO was sha empowered, pretty much giving him demi-god level powers

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    This. Junker Gnomes are such a weird choice - yes, they're cooler than normal gnomes. But that's not gonna make people who don't play gnomes play gnomes. Just seems like a lot of wasted effort

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    Also, why are we comparing 8.2 to Shadowbringers when 8.2 is a patch and Shadowbringers is a whole expansion?
    Runescape is a weird one, with it's release of old school runescape and the mobile release it may actually be more popular now.

    But eq did lose people to wow, it was more casual so it picked up the casual eq players who didn't have time to camp 24/7

  16. #256
    Class changes make me miss mop

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by DTJames View Post
    Money on Mechagon is there to setup the Mechgnome as allied race.
    When I was still playing, I wanted Saberon to be a allies race with the Alliance while Horde gets Vulpera. Instead they think amputee gnomes was a better choice for the 0.2% of fans that wanted them.

    At least I can play a big cat-man race in FFXIV.
    Allies Race Wishlist: ALLIANCE: Tuskarr and Vrykul HORDE: Gnoll and Mok'Nathal
    New Class Wishlist: Blademaster, Tinker, Necromancer, Bard

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