Paragon Cache / Rep Hoarding for 8.2 Nerfed

[rrayy]

If you are reading this, do not turn in the quest for a paragon rep cache, it's being nerfed:

https://www.wowhead.com/news=292432/...-quest-turn-in

Instead of opening the cache, you will directly receive the rewards from a quest turn-in. All caches you have in your bags right now will not contain AP as of the patch on tuesday.

Standard procedure of Fun Detected -> Fun Removed.

I had a feeling they would do this, but i just wish they hadn't waited until the last minute after people have been farming rep this whole time.

Any player who thought they could game the system by hoarding like that is not very bright. Blizzard has been very consistent in nerfing those things to prevent gaming the system. It boggles my mind that anyone who think this time would be any different.

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How is it "abusing" game mechanics? We farmed the rep, we DID the work, we should be able to reap the rewards.

YOu tried to game the system by using mechanics in an unintended way to gain an advantage. Blizzard took care of it so everyone sstarts out equally on day one of hte patch.

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You misunderstand me, why are (were?) people hoarding Paragon boxes (I assume BFA ones). For a quick shot of AP?

Edit - seems that yes this is the case.

People were hoarding Paragon boxes because they will contain mounts in 8.2

[Jester Joe]

That's not a rational argument.

That's an appeal to emotion and sentiment.

It's obviously an unintended use of game mechanics. You can argue all day as to whether that's the same as an "abuse", but it's unintended, and it's been fixed. That's really all there is to it.

That isn't an appeal at all.

They're right. There's nothing abusive about saving your paragon rewards if you wanted. You don't have to open them immediately.

While I agree with blizzard on the change as I can see why they'd do it, calling the behavior "abusive" is not correct.

[rrayy]

Standard procedure of Fun Detected -> Fun Removed.

Nope. What actually happened is abused of game mechanics detected -> the ability to abuse removed.

[Vynestra]

Anyone who did this without thinking it'd be nerfed is silly and naive.

You did it knowingly that blizz nerfs this kind of shit just so you could bitch and moan when they did nerf it. I bet every single top player knew it was going to happen.

Be happy you can still use the 20k rep you hoarded.

[Jester Joe]

Nope. What actually happened is abused of game mechanics detected -> the ability to abuse removed.

An abuse of game mechanics was splitting the potion for 10% exp to use multiple of them at once and stack the buff.

Holding onto an item that gives you the ability to use it whenever isn't abuse.

Otherwise, you'd see everyone who did this getting a temp ban. There is no action being taken against them though because the ability to hold onto the reward is what is it is intended, otherwise it would just auto open like any other cache reward.

[rrayy]

An abuse of game mechanics was splitting the potion for 10% exp to use multiple of them at once and stack the buff.

Holding onto an item that gives you the ability to use it whenever isn't abuse.

Otherwise, you'd see everyone who did this getting a temp ban. There is no action being taken against them though because the ability to hold onto the reward is what is it is intended, otherwise it would just auto open like any other cache reward.

No action being taken because they already knew what could happen and were going to nerf it regardless as they have done this many times before. Much different that an unintended bug, but both are still abusing game mechanics. A temp ban is not required for something to be an abuse of mechanics.

[Jester Joe]

No action being taken because they already knew what could happen and were going to nerf it regardless. Much different that an unintended bug, but both are still abusing game mechanics.

Again, it's not abuse.

Nothing about this is causing the reward to act in a way that it shouldn't.

[rrayy]

Again, it's not abuse.

Nothing about this is causing the reward to act in a way that it shouldn't.

It is abuse. You are using game mechanics to increase your odds of getting a speicific reward, in this case likely the mounts, on day 1. Therefore, you are using the game mechanics in a way that is not intended to gain an advantage and that classifies as abuse.

[Jester Joe]

It is abuse. You are using game mechanics to increase your odds of getting a speicific reward, in this case likely the mounts, on day 1. Therefore, you are using the game mechanics in a way that is not intended and classifies as abuse.

What.

There are no mounts being added to the paragon caches.

All this change is about is the azerite you get from it already is going to waste for people capped at 50, so they're saving it so their work isn't wasted like it currently is.

That isn't abuse, again. It's the cache working exactly how it works.

[Farabee]

It's obviously an unintended use of game mechanics.

No, the intended mechanic of the game is to give you 2500 Azerite Power when you open a paragon box. I can open it on my alts and get 2500 Azerite power. I can SEE that it's TRYING to give me 2500 Azerite power when I open one on my main, but since Blizzard put in an arbitrary cap, it isn't.

The mechanic is crystal clear. The fact that they are changing the mechanic to time-gate players in an expansion which is already full of time-gating is the issue here.

You did it knowingly that blizz nerfs this kind of shit just so you could bitch and moan when they did nerf it. I bet every single top player knew it was going to happen.

No, we did it thinking we would get 2500 Azerite from the box when the cap was increased, because the box gives 2500 Azerite when you open it now. It's not a future reward which is currently unavailable. It's a reward which is available NOW that our characters can't claim because we're arbitrarily capped on the resource. There is no precedent for this issue.

[themaster24]

That isn't an appeal at all.

They're right. There's nothing abusive about saving your paragon rewards if you wanted. You don't have to open them immediately.

While I agree with blizzard on the change as I can see why they'd do it, calling the behavior "abusive" is not correct.

I mean, I would agree with you if people were saving it because they were some new cosmetic rewards being added (new toys/pets, other caches giving the commendations, etc), and they wanted to hold out for those. However, if someone was hoarding them for the purpose of trying to gain a power advantage (I.E. huge chunk of AP on patch day) that most players wouldn't, that's kind of trying to abuse the system. Yes, it's not the same form of abuse as say, Saronite bombs on LK Heroic, but it is still a form of abuse.

Furthermore, if blizz wanted to really "nerf" this, they would make it such that any paragon caches unlocked, whether from previous turn-ins, or previsouly acquired rep, would not provide AP. As others have mentioned, all players who have really gone full throttle on this have lost is a third of what they grinded for.

[FelPlague]

If you are reading this, do not turn in the quest for a paragon rep cache, it's being nerfed:

https://www.wowhead.com/news=292432/...-quest-turn-in

Instead of opening the cache, you will directly receive the rewards from a quest turn-in. All caches you have in your bags right now will not contain AP as of the patch on tuesday.

Standard procedure of Fun Detected -> Fun Removed.

I had a feeling they would do this, but i just wish they hadn't waited until the last minute after people have been farming rep this whole time.

have had 18 for like 2 months now
so only 6 are lost the other 12 will be handed in after the patch goes live
so i have lost only 1/3rd my azerite, no big deal really.

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No, the intended mechanic of the game is to give you 2500 Azerite Power when you open a paragon box. I can open it on my alts and get 2500 Azerite power. I can SEE that it's TRYING to give me 2500 Azerite power when I open one on my main, but since Blizzard put in an arbitrary cap, it isn't.

The mechanic is crystal clear. The fact that they are changing the mechanic to time-gate players in an expansion which is already full of time-gating is the issue here.



No, we did it thinking we would get 2500 Azerite from the box when the cap was increased, because the box gives 2500 Azerite when you open it now. It's not a future reward which is currently unavailable. It's a reward which is available NOW that our characters can't claim because we're arbitrarily capped on the resource. There is no precedent for this issue.

"to time gate players" omfg fucking seriously?

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What.

There are no mounts being added to the paragon caches.

All this change is about is the azerite you get from it already is going to waste for people capped at 50, so they're saving it so their work isn't wasted like it currently is.

That isn't abuse, again. It's the cache working exactly how it works.

the ab use is getting an item but just not opening it till after.
i have 18 saved up, os only 6 are made useless, the other 12 will give me azerite just fine.

[trapmaster]

Blizzard is worried about how ppl saving up paragon cache for 2500 azerite crap... Who cares? That necklace isn't that great........ stay tuned for news about blizzard continues killing their own playerbase.

[Emerald Archer]

It takes about 3 weeks of doing full map clears, or just pottering away for the last few months with only emissaries, to be at 18 caches atm. It's not very hard.

We're only going from 18 chests to 12, that's perfectly fine. It's a minor reduction but not completely reverting the time put in. People shouldn't be surprised they changed it as it was always a strong possibility, and instead be happy that you didn't even lose half of your chests.

[FelPlague]

Again, it's not abuse.

Nothing about this is causing the reward to act in a way that it shouldn't.

they did do this same thing in legion, people tried to horde the emisarry and paragon boxes in prep for an artifact level increase, then oepn them after, but blizz made it so only NEW caches would give artifact power.

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Anyone who did this without thinking it'd be nerfed is silly and naive.

You did it knowingly that blizz nerfs this kind of shit just so you could bitch and moan when they did nerf it. I bet every single top player knew it was going to happen.

Be happy you can still use the 20k rep you hoarded.

ive been doing this for months, soul even made a video with it in it and has been doing it.
we both knew this would come, but its much better then we thought it would be, not sure what they could do though.

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How is it "abusing" game mechanics? We farmed the rep, we DID the work, we should be able to reap the rewards.

and you could, you can log in right now and open your boxes and reap your rewards.

[themaster24]

they did do this same thing in legion, people tried to horde the emisarry and paragon boxes in prep for an artifact level increase, then oepn them after, but blizz made it so only NEW caches would give artifact power.

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ive been doing this for months, soul even made a video with it in it and has been doing it.
we both knew this would come, but its much better then we thought it would be, not sure what they could do though.

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and you could, you can log in right now and open your boxes and reap your rewards.

IIRC, they also did something similar with several AP items in legion. Ensuring people wouldn't hoard them by making the ap they granted no longer increase from AK week to week while sitting in your bags, but instead be calculated upon looting the item itself.

[Shadowsgrace]

Considering Blizzard pretty much always killed off any ability to Hoard to get a jump ahead of everyone else, I'm more surprised People thought this WOULD work, rather than being surprised it got nerfed as usual.

Aye, I was thinking the same thing. It's quite obvious that any means players think of to get a jump on a new timegate, Blizzard will normally have a "fix" in place just before it goes live.

[Jester Joe]

I mean, I would agree with you if people were saving it because they were some new cosmetic rewards being added (new toys/pets, other caches giving the commendations, etc), and they wanted to hold out for those. However, if someone was hoarding them for the purpose of trying to gain a power advantage (I.E. huge chunk of AP on patch day) that most players wouldn't, that's kind of trying to abuse the system. Yes, it's not the same form of abuse as say, Saronite bombs on LK Heroic, but it is still a form of abuse.

Looking for an advantage though isn't considered an abuse.

Is it an abuse that I've been saving my residuum for the last month so I could get a 430 azerite piece on launch?

It cost 9000, and I'll be able to basically get that right at launch.

Abuse has to include causing the item to react in a way that it shouldn't.

I would actually say if they had a new reward added to them, that would be considered closer to abuse because the caches you got at that point weren't suppose to have the reward.

the ab use is getting an item but just not opening it till after.
i have 18 saved up, os only 6 are made useless, the other 12 will give me azerite just fine.

But that's how the item itself works.

Like I said, I point again to my hoarding of residuum to get an item right at launch.
Or people who farm up mats to craft newer boes as soon as they can.

How is this any different?

they did do this same thing in legion, people tried to horde the emisarry and paragon boxes in prep for an artifact level increase, then oepn them after, but blizz made it so only NEW caches would give artifact power.

I'm not debating that people should have saw this coming from a mile away (because yeah, they should have honestly), but the fact that trying to claim people who were doing it were "abusing" the system is just faulty. They're allowed to be irritated I'd say, but it is kinda their own fault because Blizzard has a history of doing this, although they should have done this at the start rather than wait til the last week to start dumping changes that will irritate people (The exp change for example as another)

[Fritters154]

How is it "abusing" game mechanics? We farmed the rep, we DID the work, we should be able to reap the rewards.

You can reap the rewards for your efforts that were intended for that system. You wanted rewards that were not intended for the work that you did.

[themaster24]

Aye, I was thinking the same thing. It's quite obvious that any means players think of to get a jump on a new timegate, Blizzard will normally have a "fix" in place just before it goes live.

I love hearing people call HoA levels a timegate. Seriously though, Blizz is very keen on taking efforts to ensure players don't create power advantages like this before content even drops. It should come at no surprise in patch 8.2 that they would continue to do what they have done for god knows how long.