Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Black Goat]

Blizzard didn't "differentiate" Nightborne from Night elves before deciding to add them on Horde. They've came out and said it was a tough decision which faction Nightborne should go to and they knew whoever didn't get Nightborne would be upset.

Nightborne as they are with their society/culture had nothing to do with it.

“We weren’t surprised that [Alliance players] felt betrayed,” Burke says. “We had the same reaction happen internally here. We had to make a choice, and both sides had very interesting arguments to make. We knew whoever didn’t get the Nightborne would feel a tinge of loss.” - Steve Burke

https://www.polygon.com/2019/1/21/18...user-interview

I agree though on your last bit, High Elves are probably going to be akin to a "break glass in case of emergency" situation. The nice thing is people don't have to stay subbed in hopes for it, it'll just happen when its needed.

Well, the Nightborne are, in fact, differentiated from Night Elves. They have a different idle stance and appear to be quite emaciated and also have markings. I didn't say they were worlds apart, just differentiated. It just seems even stranger to me to have Night Elves and then skinnier Night Elves on the same faction, but then you have Kul'tirans so I don't freakin' know anymore...

I really won't pretend to know the exact reasoning why they don't implement them. I can only use the resources I have to determine a "most likely" reasoning and outcome. The few official statements they've made appear to be little more than PR jargon to "silence the masses". I don't agree with a population excuse in a video game... I mean... c'mon. Cat people exist, but we have to have a viable population to let people play a race? So the most likely reason to me is an inner-bias within Blizzard by someone who has sizeable authority. The likelihood of them not wanting to upset the Horde players even seems less likely to me the more I think about it.

[Hawkknight97]

Theses folks don't represent all the players who want playable high elves since years. That tiny discord community really needs to be banned. They have been pretty intolerant to the people who don't share their opinions. I'm sorry for you ;(

I'm sorry for Antis and People who was ether mixed about High Elves or just didn't want them in the First Place. Also I'm sorry for being a Blind Ass for all these Years since 2017 to now.

I left that Discord quite a while back due to being told that I was too negative for telling them not to get their hopes up too high on some of the announcements I personally have no interest in whether High elves become playable or not anymore as I occasionally play my human mage or play other games entirely some of that community is quite toxic but some of the anti high elfers here still talk shit a lot of the time which just makes me facepalm its just a huge circle jerk at this point.

My Eyes have been opened to the True Ignorance the Community and its Discord as well. At this point I have pretty much have given up on the Support after being permanently banned because they didn't want to deal with my so called emotional abuse plus people who were on there pretty much had a hate boner for everything that is horde like Blood Elves and also complains about Human Potential 24 7 within the Alliance. I just might as well accept ether Half Elves or High Elf Skin Tune Options and Tattoos at this point seeing the fact they don't really care about the rest of the Alliance Players. Just themselves now.

They wouldn't. If they were fine with giving Void Elves the High Elf skin tones, they would have added High Elves in the first place.

Also, Blizzard employees were telling before that Allied Races was their most successful feature in BfA. Not sure why are you saying they believe it's a failure. Did something change recently?

Well for the Horde Yes but rest of the other Alliance Players not so much. Its basically a Mix Bag for Alliance Players. Some Hated the System and Some Liked the Allied Races on there. I'm just in the Middle. Used to be Hate the System but just in the Middle now in days.

[FlubberPuddy]

So the most likely reason to me is an inner-bias within Blizzard by someone who has sizeable authority.

Well I don't think it's a coincidence that producer Shani Edwards was the one going around talking about the revealed Void Elves and also has an NPC named after herself (and possibly another NPC after her hubby).

But even forgoing that, it's honestly just a timing issue regardless. Void Elves were relatively new at the time of that question. Look how many people still complain about "World of Elfcraft" even though every race since Nightborne and Void Elf have been non-elf.

The timing is just bad, I bet if someone were to ask about Wildhammer Dwarves as an Allied Race in the next Q/A about "why Dark Iron over Wildhammer Dwarves", they'd probably get a similar answer.

Same for anyone trying to request a forest troll, undead elf, human, orc, etc. None of these other variants are happening until we're done with this "first round" of Allied Races in BFA.

[The Silver Covenant]

But I will ask this in return, what makes you think the Alliance players are the only ones deserving of their fantasy being fulfilled?

I have never said that only Alliance players are deserving of having the High Elf fantasy fulfilled. I'm saying that Alliance players are just as deserving of playing a High Elf Allied race as the Horde is playing a race that was ripped away from the Alliance for the exclusive purpose of balancing the factions in a post-Vanilla environment. The only people denying one side their fun are Horde fans promoting the idea that allowing the Alliance access to one of the faction's own iconic races is the path forward.

Blood Elves are guests as part of the Horde and will always stand apart because they were designed as an Alliance race. High Elves would be an intuitive and native addition to the Alliance's array of playable races. I'm not saying to deny the Horde anything. I'm saying that the Alliance should have access to what's theirs.

[Alixie]

Firstly, Pandaren were introduced as neutral... so they're not comparative at all. In the case of high elves, the main high elven society has been playable on the Horde since TBC. So, implementing playable alliance high elves would turn a race playable on the Horde de facto neutral. Using the Pandaren excuse is apples to oranges.. it's not comparative in the slightest.

Thirdly, this is Blizzard's game and they've announced that high elves would blur the faction lines they want to maintain. So I'm not sure on what grounds you think the argument is over?

I brought up Pandaren in case people bring up the false argument that two playable version of the same race cant be playable. Its false because the game, story and characters treat High and Blood Elves as separate people. Even if you move goalposts, your argument still doesnt work.

Again, Im not sure how the lines haven't already been blurred for the 15 years that High Elves have been both active and passive participants in the story and setting over almost every expansion. And if High Elves blur fraction lines, why does Blizz keep using them over and over? It's hypocritical.

[Strippling]

Firstly, this petition is official only for you and everyone else except you actually doesn't care about it. So please stop bringing it up on the table every time.

The official high elf petition is the only piece of 'evidence' we can go by that indicates roughly how popular playable high elves are. We have high elfers claiming that they are so popular and would make Blizzard so much money, yet what evidence do we have of this other than the petition? As it stands to date, the high elf petition is the only evidence that show cases some sort of statistic. The forums aren't really an indication cause it's usually the same 15-20 folks arguing back and forth about high elves.. so using the forums as evidence of how vastly popular high elves are is pretty pointless. And as it stands, the high elf petition shows a rather lack luster supporting... I mean it couldn't even reach 1000 signatures.... if high elves were so immensely popular one would think the number of signatures would have been substantially higher.

On the contrary, on the OFFICIAL WoW forums, playable high elves have been the most requested feature since years.

Like I said, high elf posts on the official WoW forums are usually from the same 15-20 people... so hardly an indication of any sort of popularity. On top of that, several high elfers have been caught out using alts to post to exaggerate how many players are in support of high elves.

Also, high elves are easily the most 'hated' race request by the community in general. What does that tell you? Their may be more requests for high elves than other races, but I guarantee you no other race request faces even half the resistance high elves do. You need to consider both sides of the spectrum when it comes to races, and in the case of high elves, they have extremes on both ends...

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I have never said that only Alliance players are deserving of having the High Elf fantasy fulfilled. I'm saying that Alliance players are just as deserving of playing a High Elf Allied race as the Horde is playing a race that was ripped away from the Alliance for the exclusive purpose of balancing the factions in a post-Vanilla environment. The only people denying one side their fun are Horde fans promoting the idea that allowing the Alliance access to one of the faction's own iconic races is the path forward.

Blood Elves are guests as part of the Horde and will always stand apart because they were designed as an Alliance race. High Elves would be an intuitive and native addition to the Alliance's array of playable races. I'm not saying to deny the Horde anything. I'm saying that the Alliance should have access to what's theirs.

What gives you the right to claim that the Horde is playing a race that was 'ripped' from the Alliance?

I'm sorry to say but your sense of entitlement is baffling.

[The Silver Covenant]

What gives you the right to claim that the Horde is playing a race that was 'ripped' from the Alliance?

I'm sorry to say but your sense of entitlement is baffling.

Literally play Warcraft.

[Strippling]

Literally play Warcraft.

We're talking about World of Warcraft.

Also, play WCIII.

[The Silver Covenant]

Also, play WCIII.

Just re-finished it. I still believe that High Elves should be a playable Alliance race, and believe that the lore justifies it.

Is my understanding of lore just that superior to yours? Or are you just super biased toward the Horde?

[elbleuet]

The official high elf petition is the only piece of 'evidence' we can go by that indicates roughly how popular playable high elves are. We have high elfers claiming that they are so popular and would make Blizzard so much money, yet what evidence do we have of this other than the petition? As it stands to date, the high elf petition is the only evidence that show cases some sort of statistic. The forums aren't really an indication cause it's usually the same 15-20 folks arguing back and forth about high elves.. so using the forums as evidence of how vastly popular high elves are is pretty pointless. And as it stands, the high elf petition shows a rather lack luster supporting... I mean it couldn't even reach 1000 signatures.... if high elves were so immensely popular one would think the number of signatures would have been substantially higher.

That's not an official petition. It's worth nothing and no one cares about it except you.

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

The Kul'Tiran example showcased that two identical races can suddenly become not identical in gameplay only and in nothing else if there is a will from Blizzard. That means that there is nothing in game or in lore that could have prevented Blizzard to differentiate two identical races that Blizzard would care about. It's just Blizzard doesn't want to add High Elves and it's not because they share the same model with the Blood Elves, but because Ion wants the archetype of "fair skinned elf" to stay pure Horde.

It will be fun if they end up using their model to make the long awaited ogre AR.

[matrix123mko]

Literally play Warcraft.

High elves in Alliance faction in Warcraft 3 were there privately. Quel'thalas was an independent faction since Warcraft 2. Also, humans of Lordaeron are Horde anyway.

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It will be fun if they end up using their model to make the long awaited ogre AR.

I am sure they will but with changed dances and some other emotes.

[elbleuet]

High elves in Alliance faction in Warcraft 3 were there privately. Quel'thalas was an independent faction since Warcraft 2. Also, humans of Lordaeron are Horde anyway.

They may now rename themselves dead humans of Kalimdor, because they lost Lordaeron for ever. And that's a good thing.

[matrix123mko]

They may now rename themselves dead humans of Kalimdor, because they lost Lordaeron for ever. And that's a good thing.

They could build a new city in burned husk of Teldrassil. That would look nice.

[elbleuet]

They could build a new city in burned husk of Teldrassil. That would look nice.

That would be amazing. Or even in Theramore. The irony.

[matrix123mko]

That would be amazing. Or even in Theramore. The irony.

Theramore wouldn't look as nice as Teldrassil, but I think it would be more practical. Imagine if they could create some arcane machinery to harness magical energies in Theramore.

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

High elves in Alliance faction in Warcraft 3 were there privately. Quel'thalas was an independent faction since Warcraft 2. Also, humans of Lordaeron are Horde anyway.

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The living inhabitant of Lordaeron would probably disagree with that statement. Its more like some undead humans of Lordaeron are Horde. You are evidently confusing the City with the Kingdom, which was the largest and most populous of all human kingdoms. And anyway they no longer hold the Capital City anymore, and IIRC the new take on their ideology is that they should absolutely not identify with their previous lives, so here goes their claims to be the successors to Lordaeron.

While a substantial part of Lordaeron fell to the Scourge, with a fraction seceding to the Forsaken, a substantial number of territories and citizens survived and clearly identified with Lordaeron :

-Garithos and his men before being betrayed by Sylvanas
-most notably Hillsbrad Foothills and Southshore were part of Lordaeron, and before being genocided during Cataclysm were staunch Alliance members
-most of the Scarlet Crusade and later Scarlet Onslaught, plus the various surviving citizen you had to kill when questing as a Forsaken were Lordaeronian
-a good portion of the humans in the Argent Dawn/Crusade are surviving Lordaeronian humans, effectively still holding territory and reclaiming the land since Cataclysm, funnily enough they are faction neutral despite some of their paladins being abducted on order of the Banshee Queen for experimenting purposes
-there were significant population exchanges between Stormwind and Lordaeron, so many current citizens of the former would also identify with the latter, like Rogers for example

At that point the Forsaken are as representative of Lordaeron as the Defias Brotherhood is representative of Stormwind (i.e. originate from it but aim at destroying it and everything it stood for).

[matrix123mko]

The living inhabitant of Lordaeron would probably disagree with that statement. Its more like some undead humans of Lordaeron are Horde. You are evidently confusing the City with the Kingdom, which was the largest and most populous of all human kingdoms. And anyway they no longer hold the Capital City anymore, and IIRC the new take on their ideology is that they should absolutely not identify with their previous lives, so here goes their claims to be the successors to Lordaeron.

They are still the greatest group of them. Convincing me that groups of refugees are true Lordaeronians is like saying that Silver Covenant is real succesor of Quel'thalas.

-Garithos and his men before being betrayed by Sylvanas

Blood elves wouldn't like to work with him again.

-most notably Hillsbrad Foothills and Southshore were part of Lordaeron, and before being genocided during Cataclysm were staunch Alliance members

So separatists.

-most of the Scarlet Crusade and later Scarlet Onslaught, plus the various surviving citizen you had to kill when questing as a Forsaken were Lordaeronian

Sect.

-a good portion of the humans in the Argent Dawn/Crusade are surviving Lordaeronian humans, effectively still holding territory and reclaiming the land since Cataclysm, funnily enough they are faction neutral despite some of their paladins being abducted on order of the Banshee Queen for experimenting purposes

They didn't identify as country, but neutral party to fight the Scourge. They lived in peace with the Forsaken.

-there were significant population exchanges between Stormwind and Lordaeron, so many current citizens of the former would also identify with the latter, like Rogers for example

Not significant enough. Can be also called Stormwindians then.

At that point the Forsaken are as representative of Lordaeron as the Defias Brotherhood is representative of Stormwind (i.e. originate from it but aim at destroying it and everything it stood for).

Defias isn't as big as the Forsaken.

Lordaeron stood for two things: Holy Light, which abandoned them and survival, which Sylvanas ensures. Forsaken are Lordaeron.

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

They are still the greatest group of them. Convincing me that groups of refugees are true Lordaeronians is like saying that Silver Covenant is real succesor of Quel'thalas.

Them being the largest group is doubtful, for a long time their characterization was that of small enclaves besieged by hostiles forces all around (lots and lots of Scourge undead humans, civilian living humans, Scarlet Crusade, feral worgens, etc...). Convincing me that a group of undead humans is Lordaeron is like saying the San'layn are the real successor of Quel'thalas.

Blood elves wouldn't like to work with him again.

But wouldn't it be fun if the Dark Lady gets to raise him in her service, even as an Abomination? I'm still wondering if they might do that with good old Daelin, that would be a lot of fun for the Orcs too!

So separatists.

Separatists from what? Was Kael'thas a separatist from Silvermoon since he lived in Dalaran?

Sect.

Surviving Lordaeronian competing for survival/territory with undead Lordaeronian belonging to the Cult of the Dark Lady/Banshee Queen. I say the former have a standing at least equal to the latter when it comes to be representants of Lordaeron, plus they even had ambassadors in the Alliance, its just that talks were not as advanced as those sponsored by Cairne.

They didn't identify as country, but neutral party to fight the Scourge. They lived in peace with the Forsaken.

While the latter are abducting their paladins to use in experiments and blighting freshly reclaimed land. I guess the peace is one-sided (But perfectly in-character of the Forsaken, similar to their "loyalty" with the Horde).

Not significant enough. Can be also called Stormwindians then.

BORN Lordaeronian :
- if alive, either still living in Lordaeron and thus a living Lordaeronian, or refugee and called Stormwindian? I guess Americans living abroad are not Americans then.
- if undead, either free-willed (very few), or "free-willed" and thus a Forsaken, or not free-willed and thus Scourge

If we start measuring by number only and discard elements such as survival and identities, then the Scourge is Lordaeron, like the Scourge is also Quel'thalas (given that 90% died, with a sizeable fraction "converted" in the process).

Defias isn't as big as the Forsaken.

At the beginning of the game they had influence over a comparable amount of territory, and given that they represent a fraction of disenfranchized denizens from a human Kingdom their numbers could be comparable. They even had allies from other races (gnolls, ogres, goblins), a subterranean capital city and a secret weapon developed in secrecy aimed at obliterating their enemy.

There is nothing that says in-game that playable factions are majorities and everything else minorities. Especially given the in-game fate of 3 boatfull of orcs VS 3 wordfulls of orcs, a minor island Troll tribe VS 4+ Troll empires, a barely surviving tribe of Tauren VS multiple Centaur Hordes and a boat of Goblins VS several cartels.

A band of Pilgrim and others did manage to gain dominance over a major Continent which inhabitants vastly outnumbered them, but it took them at least a few centuries, not 20 years. And the previous inhabitant were still there first and much more numerous in the beginning, its just that the spotlight wasn't on them.

Lordaeron stood for two things: Holy Light, which abandoned them and survival, which Sylvanas ensures. Forsaken are Lordaeron.

Lordaeron and its King Terenas stood for the Holy Light, Justice and Survival

The Alliance, also called the Alliance of Lordaeron stands for the Holy Light, Justice and Survival
The Argent Dawn/Crusade stands for the Holy Light, Justice and Survival
The Scarlet Crusade stands for the Holy Light, Justice and Survival
The Forsaken stands for the Holy Light Sylvanas, Justice vengeance on the living and Survival/Undeath to all. The Forsaken are arrows in her quiver and her bulwark against oblivion.

But I agree that the Forsaken were Lordaeronian in life, and I wish we had more fun characters, like Godfrey, Galen, Garithos, Daelin, Blackmoore, and others that would have been renowned Orc/Troll killers in life.

I'm all for more Forsaken Fun with Gnomes thrown in the mix. We could have much more Orcs from the battlefields of all those wars, imagine the potential of risen Blackhand, risen Doomhammer, risen Cairne, risen Zul'jin, risen Sen'jin, risen Dagran Thaurissan, risen Thortheldrin, etc...

[elbleuet]

Let's not forget that the forsaken are also a group of refugees now ! Without land and without kingdom since they will likely not return to Lordaeron anytime soon.