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  1. #61
    I am Murloc!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Physical weapons shouldn't harm AIR elementals, in my example. Earth elementals are 100% ok being hurt by physical weapons imo.
    You're forgetting that players aren't swinging random sticks, but magical weapons with many powerful enchantments. You could claim that pets are "mundane", but then again, who knows - maybe they were infused with magic from their environment so their attacks are not like your regular dog bite.

    It's canon that normal, non-magical warrior was able to actually hurt Sargeras with a magical weapon. The biggest, nastiest superboss so far could still be damaged by physical attacks - and yet random elemental would be immune? How that's for "realism" and "rpg elements"?
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kami Dende View Post
    There is quite literally nothing interesting about Resistances. Since it would come down to:
    A class isn't affected so doesn't change the gameplay at all for them.
    B class is affected and they just get left out of content since classes that aren't affected are instantly better.
    Technically there's one more option:
    C class is affected and much more powerful than it would normally be... so they are stacked while everything else is benched.
    Last edited by KaPe; 2019-06-21 at 02:52 PM.

  2. #62
    What's the point of schools of magic nowadays? That meme 1% shadow/frost/nature/arcane resist passive traits that some races have? A mob totally immune to a school is not fun and kinda stupid considering that fire mages can't cast frost spells at all(except frost nova lulz) but it would be interesting to have mobs that take reduced dmg from fire spells and increased dmg from frost.
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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by D3athsting View Post
    but it would be interesting to have mobs that take reduced dmg from fire spells and increased dmg from frost.
    How exactly would it be "interesting"? You'd respec frost for them, deal bonus damage. So interesting.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    Ah yeah, the usual "hey look, SOMETHING is not realist, so NOTHING has to be and ANYTHING can be justified !" /facepalm
    No, the point is simply that certain mechanics have been removed because they add nothing but frustration to the player.

    I mean, what was the benefit of Hydross being immune against nature for half of the fight? Nothing, it just fucked over Dps Shaman.
    The only option on that fight was to go Resto or play another character entirely.

    This entire mechanic didn't affect certain classes at all, made some respec and others were totally screwed by it.

    Still waiting for that ghost boss that is immune against Melee damage and needs to be tanked and killed by casters, but i think Blizzard even realized that this would've gone too far even during classic.

    Same as any Boss that is immune against Shadow would screw over Shadow priest, or any boss immune against holy would screw over Disc / Ret.

    At a certain point you have to draw a line between "logical" elements and mechanics that just screw over players.

    Just to give you another example that was removed from Classic beta before the game went live: Undead players actually being considered Undead.
    It made them immune against a variety of CC effects (Poly, Fear, etc.) but any Paladin would beat them to a pulp due to their multiple anti Undead abilities.

    It was absolutely logical that Undead players are in fact considered Undead, but was freaking imbalanced, same reason why it would be stupid if Disc / Holy had a big "no" slapped over for Undead priests.

    The severity of those things need to be kept in mind and this case, they were just too damn high because it literally made certain classes / spec barely playable.

    Quote Originally Posted by D3athsting View Post
    What's the point of schools of magic nowadays? That meme 1% shadow/frost/nature/arcane resist passive traits that some races have? A mob totally immune to a school is not fun and kinda stupid considering that fire mages can't cast frost spells at all(except frost nova lulz) but it would be interesting to have mobs that take reduced dmg from fire spells and increased dmg from frost.
    They could make a return if Blizzard brings back abilities that made relevant.
    Resistance buffs (or rather "Reduces [School]damage by taken by X%") buffs, stuff like Fire / Frost / Shadow wards for Mage / warlock.

    Damage schools could be explored in an interesting fashion, but slapping resistances / immunities on mobs is not one of them.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2019-06-21 at 03:40 PM.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    I mean he's completely right though. WoW has barely ever been that much of a true RPG
    That's completely missing the point. I'm not saying WoW has or has not been a true RPG, I'm saying that the argument is completely retarded.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    No, the point is simply that certain mechanics have been removed because they add nothing but frustration to the player.
    1) That's not what your argument was.
    2) "frustration" is subjective, and your frustration can be my immersion.

  6. #66
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    Mob resistances were terrible, since they just made it to where certain specs or even classes had no business being on progression for that fight. Farm, maybe.

    Player resistances were more interesting, but ultimately just boiled down to another form of defense. Since Blizz basically removed the ability to stat for dodge/parry from the game... eh, it would require a complete stat revamp to work now.

    Still, the good days of being able to solo a caster 10 lvls above you as a DK, just because you had 200 of every single resistance. Good days, OP hero class, fond memories.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    or getting a mechanical-type mob to bleed
    As a rogue, I tend to think of rupturing a mechanical as causing an oil leaking. it helps :P

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    1) That's not what your argument was.
    It's called an analogy, to highlight that certain "logical" things are left out for the sake of improving experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    2) "frustration" is subjective, and your frustration can be my immersion.
    Says the Tauren to the squashed Gnome.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Muajin76 View Post
    Blizzard...the destroyer of fun! T.T
    It wasn't fun in the slightest, farming separate sets of raid gear for bosses in MC and Naxx was the least fun thing that Blizz came up with, hence the removal.

    Fun isn't adding complexity to things, that's not what WoW needs back.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    How exactly would it be "interesting"? You'd respec frost for them, deal bonus damage. So interesting.
    it would completely kill off certain spec in different dungeons and raids... forcing people to play something they may not like... it would cause an uproar...

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    It's called an analogy, to highlight that certain "logical" things are left out for the sake of improving experience.
    Yes, and your analogy was based on "other things aren't logical, so this one doesn't need to be", which was my point.

    You really have a problem admiting you're wrong, don't you ?

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Not irrelevant, but doable within the limits that a raiding environment imposes to game mechanics. Lots of RPGs (tabletop, adventure, even hack and slash) have damage conversion mechanics, so they're all doing it wrong by your standards.
    Yes, irrelevant. The consumables can't be overly expensive since everybody "needs" them, so ultimately it just renders having resistances pointless.

  12. #72
    Old God Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Yes, irrelevant. The consumables can't be overly expensive since everybody "needs" them, so ultimately it just renders having resistances pointless.
    It wouldn't be irrelevant. Are pots irrelevant? Are food buffs, or augmentation runes? Everybody needs them, so we should prune those as well, right? Gotta streamline™ everything, my dude!
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    Yes, and your analogy was based on "other things aren't logical, so this one doesn't need to be", which was my point.
    If you believe that was the point of it, you're wrong.

    The point was to highlight why certain "logical" things are ignored for gameplay's sake, because they seriously dampen the experience of people playing the game.
    I picked an extreme example in hopes that would be obvious, as it seems i was wrong.

    The "certain" is based on the impact of it, that's why Blizzard for example gave the Undead PC a Humanoid flag, not Undead, because some PC's being actually Undead would cause a massive PvP Imbalance.

    I mean, even other people have pointed this out to you, but it just flew straight over your head.

    The impact of the "logical thing" is the deciding factor, not whether Blizzard already ignored certain aspects.
    The decision needs to be made case by case, the entire purpose of this analogy was to point that Blizzard already applied this even when designing Classic WoW and left certain things when they were deemed far too damaging to the player experience.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2019-06-21 at 06:33 PM.

  14. #74
    Viscidus would like to have a word with you.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muajin76 View Post
    Blizzard...the destroyer of fun! T.T
    Yes it was so much fun watching fire mages find out they were nearly useless in Molten Core or how about being a shaman going up against dragons. Always so great to have your best abilities be completely resisted.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Enchanting: Scroll of Burning Ice - Deal Fire damage instead of Frost for X mins. Minor scrolls are cheap to make, but their effect disappears on death. Major scrolls are more expensive, but last through death.

    Inscription: Rune of the North
    - Deal Frost damage instead of Physical for X mins. Minor/major runes could work as well.

    Cooking: Stew of Oppressive Shadows - Deal no Shadow damage, dealing Physical damage instead.

    Damn some people are uncreative af.
    So the solution to make resistances in the game again.. Is to immediately remove them from relevance? Just skip the step and be done with it like we have now

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muajin76 View Post
    I wonder if blizz will ever introduce this. Certain mobs resistant to magic, certain magic or physical.

    Certainly would add a nice rpg element to the game i would think.
    It'd be better if it was actually a resistance instead of a flat out immunity. For example, a mob that's resistant to Shadow Damage would instead just take reduced damage from Shadow, rather than none at all. That way no class is made completely useless against something.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Stormbringer View Post
    It'd be better if it was actually a resistance instead of a flat out immunity. For example, a mob that's resistant to Shadow Damage would instead just take reduced damage from Shadow, rather than none at all. That way no class is made completely useless against something.
    "Useless" doesn't have to mean "zero damage" - it could very well be "-25% damage because this boss is Void themed and thus resistant to Shadow magic". Functionally, it's pretty much the same - why would you want a clearly inferior option if there are alternatives? Bench warlocks/shadow priests, invite classes that do normal damage.

  19. #79
    Let's add immunities and then give tools to circumvent the immunity. Kinda stops the point of adding immunity doesn't it?
    Immunity is about forcing you to use other means. Using a scroll and then do the exact same thing isn't "other means", you still do the same thing.

    All it would do is add annoyance.

    If blizzard go forward with making classes more like a complete class instead of separate specs so any class / spec have access to some of the other specs abilities it would be fine. Then you have tools to go around the immunity and forcing you to play differently.

    Scroll is just moronic since nothing changed with it, just an extra step to have same mechanic as it is now without it.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Muajin76 View Post
    Blizzard...the destroyer of fun! T.T
    It really wasn't fun. In vanilla, you legit couldnt play fire mage in molten core because most mobs were either immune or very resistant to fire. Even out in the world just having random mobs be immune or highly resistant to you doesn't seem particularly fun.

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