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  1. #81
    Old God Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    "Useless" doesn't have to mean "zero damage" - it could very well be "-25% damage because this boss is Void themed and thus resistant to Shadow magic". Functionally, it's pretty much the same - why would you want a clearly inferior option if there are alternatives? Bench warlocks/shadow priests, invite classes that do normal damage.
    That's why we can't have proper RPG elements in the game. Hell, even PoE feels more of an RPG than WoW these days. I know, I know, apples and oranges yadda yadda, but still...
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    That's why we can't have proper RPG elements in the game. Hell, even PoE feels more of an RPG than WoW these days. I know, I know, apples and oranges yadda yadda, but still...
    Because players don't want or allow it. It's actually blizzard listening to players.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    That's why we can't have proper RPG elements in the game. Hell, even PoE feels more of an RPG than WoW these days. I know, I know, apples and oranges yadda yadda, but still...
    PoE doesn't have any min maxing? Can you do anything you want with their skill/talent tree, whatever it is called? Are there no clearly superior options you should follow most of the time? That's the same thing, and if the content is challenging enough, it is a proper thing to do.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Muajin76 View Post
    Blizzard...the destroyer of fun! T.T
    sounds like someone never had to fight off mobs that were near immune to your entire build....


    back in the day fire mages still had frostbolt to fall back on when they got stuck running through places like BURNING steppes, SEARING gorge, MOLTEN core... and actually almost everything above lvl 40 had fire resistance or outright immunity unless it was undead.

  5. #85
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    You're playing the wrong game if you want like, literally any rpg elements.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Let's add immunities and then give tools to circumvent the immunity. Kinda stops the point of adding immunity doesn't it?
    Immunity is about forcing you to use other means. Using a scroll and then do the exact same thing isn't "other means", you still do the same thing.

    All it would do is add annoyance.

    If blizzard go forward with making classes more like a complete class instead of separate specs so any class / spec have access to some of the other specs abilities it would be fine. Then you have tools to go around the immunity and forcing you to play differently.

    Scroll is just moronic since nothing changed with it, just an extra step to have same mechanic as it is now without it.
    You could also work around respeccing for that single boss. Fire elemental boss? Switch to Frost. Still, some classes would need to have another source of damage (mostly melee).

    It could also work as a raid buff provided by specific classes, e.g. Fel enchantment -> Warlocks, Arcane enchantment -> Mages, Shadow enchantment -> Priests. Something like old school Runeforging for DKs. It doesn't need to be a scroll, but there are a few RPG tidbits that could be added here and there with minimal repercusions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lazuli View Post
    You're playing the wrong game if you want like, literally any rpg elements.
    Quite true. It is no longer World of Warcraft, but World of Raidbosssimulatorcraft.
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  7. #87
    It's too difficult to properly balance with WoW's current combat system. It works in games like PoE because it is vastly more complex, both in terms of combat stats and in terms of enemies encountered. Just having a raid tier and some dungeons restricts selection so much that you can't just distribute resistances without making them effectively pointless.

    WoW's class fantasies are also heavily based in particular elements. Do you want a Shadow Priest to suddenly start dealing fire damage? Why would a Fire Mage suddenly start dealing holy? What's an Elemental Shaman got to do with shadow damage?

    We had resistances back in the day, and the result was that some specs were simply excluded. Molten Core and Blackwing Lair had most bosses be resistant to or outright immune to fire damage, for example. Playing a Fire Mage was simply impossible. You want to go back to that?

  8. #88
    Old God Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    PoE doesn't have any min maxing? Can you do anything you want with their skill/talent tree, whatever it is called? Are there no clearly superior options you should follow most of the time? That's the same thing, and if the content is challenging enough, it is a proper thing to do.
    It's impossible literally to minmax in PoE, since some of the craziest OP builds require some very hard to get uniques. Therefore you can't really count on them as a non-hardcore player. But there are literally hundreds of possible builds that will allow you to do everything but the highest endgame, which in its turn requires some of those OP uniques unless you have literally lightning reflexes.

    Still, much better stuff than current World of Diablocraft imo.
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    You could also work around respeccing for that single boss. Fire elemental boss? Switch to Frost. Still, some classes would need to have another source of damage (mostly melee).

    It could also work as a raid buff provided by specific classes, e.g. Fel enchantment -> Warlocks, Arcane enchantment -> Mages, Shadow enchantment -> Priests. Something like old school Runeforging for DKs. It doesn't need to be a scroll, but there are a few RPG tidbits that could be added here and there with minimal repercusions.



    Quite true. It is no longer World of Warcraft, but World of Raidbosssimulatorcraft.
    They would still play the exact same thing even if other classes provided it... The mechanic doesn't add any different gameplay, just a redundant step.
    Fire mage without it does one rotation.
    Fire immunity boss, change school of magic by scroll or another class, do same rotation as before.

    What's the fun mechanic? It's literally just another buff during buff phase and that's it.

    Being forced to respec is not desirable.
    Last edited by Kumorii; 2019-06-21 at 08:06 PM.

  10. #90
    Old God Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    They would still play the exact same thing even if other classes provided it... The mechanic doesn't add any different gameplay, just a redundant step.

    Being forced to respec is not desirable.
    I get it. You are one of those guys who doesn't like stuff like old paladin blessings/auras, armor debuff from rogues/warrs, magic dmg buff from UH death knights... All of that was fluff that had to be removed because "they don't add to gameplay". Let's say that we agree to disagree.
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Being forced to respec is not desirable.
    Not to mention it doesn't include classes which cannot respec because they don't have any alternatives. Nature immune boss? Sucks to be a dps shaman, go heal. Shadow immune? Priests better heal. Physical immune boss? Get one demon hunter for debuff and bench everything else.
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    I get it. You are one of those guys who doesn't like stuff like old paladin blessings/auras, armor debuff from rogues/warrs, magic dmg buff from UH death knights... All of that was fluff that had to be removed because "they don't add to gameplay". Let's say that we agree to disagree.
    Be careful, don't trip while moving these goal posts. I thought this was about "immunities and resistances being great RPG elements that should be reintroduced", not suddenly talking about auras, debuffs and buffs - a blatantly obviously attempt to paint your opponents as people opposed to any class specific features.
    Last edited by KaPe; 2019-06-21 at 08:18 PM.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    I get it. You are one of those guys who doesn't like stuff like old paladin blessings/auras, armor debuff from rogues/warrs, magic dmg buff from UH death knights... All of that was fluff that had to be removed because "they don't add to gameplay". Let's say that we agree to disagree.
    Armor debuff exists right now... monks provide it. Magic damage debuff exists right now... DH provides it.

    If anything you make it clear with every post you don't actually know what you're talking about.

    Do you know what both accomplish? They force you to have a DH and Monk in your raid comps to be optimal. In other words if they could be removed and nobody would care except for the Monk or DH that got benched when it happened.

    "RPG mechanics" tho lmao.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    I get it. You are one of those guys who doesn't like stuff like old paladin blessings/auras, armor debuff from rogues/warrs, magic dmg buff from UH death knights... All of that was fluff that had to be removed because "they don't add to gameplay". Let's say that we agree to disagree.
    They add something, although small. This immunity circumvent doesn't add anything... It literally just make it so you can play like you already did.

    There is a difference between having fluff that makes you stronger and having fluff that puts you where you already are.

    Having immunities is fine if they add ways for classes to go around it by using different schools or using different means to kill them.
    Last edited by Kumorii; 2019-06-21 at 08:16 PM.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Muajin76 View Post
    Blizzard...the destroyer of fun! T.T
    Nothing "fun" about being a class that can't fight a mob/boss that was immune to their element...

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Armor debuff exists right now... monks provide it. Magic damage debuff exists right now... DH provides it.

    If anything you make it clear with every post you don't actually know what you're talking about.

    Do you know what both accomplish? They force you to have a DH and Monk in your raid comps to be optimal. In other words if they could be removed and nobody would care except for the Monk or DH that got benched when it happened.

    "RPG mechanics" tho lmao.
    They were added just in BfA, don't be disingenuous. Same with priest Fortitude or mage AI buffs
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daedius View Post
    Nothing "fun" about being a class that can't fight a mob/boss that was immune to their element...
    But you could always respec! Spam that smite, I heard holy priest was a great damage dealer back in TBC. And restoration shamans did great damage on Hydross, easily healing him to death.

    It's like people forget that not every class is a mage.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    They were added just in BfA, don't be disingenuous. Same with priest Fortitude or mage AI buffs
    They where added in BFA? No shit, they where taken away in legion.

    A whopping 1 xpac went without armor and magic debuffs congrats. No one noticed or cared either, proving "muh rpg mechanics" aren't interesting gameplay and never where.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    But you could always respec! Spam that smite, I heard holy priest was a great damage dealer back in TBC. And restoration shamans did great damage on Hydross, easily healing him to death.

    It's like people forget that not every class is a mage.
    Oh look another one, it's disingenuous to compare classic or even BC to what the game has become. In today's game if your spec is 10% behind whatever current meta is you're benched unless they need you for specific utility. To think someone "would just respec" in this situation is wrong. You would sit on the bench for that boss, no questions asked.

  18. #98
    Old God Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    They where added in BFA? No shit, they where taken away in legion.

    A whopping 1 xpac went without armor and magic debuffs congrats. No one noticed or cared either, proving "muh rpg mechanics" aren't interesting gameplay and never where.
    Dead wrong. One of the biggest complaints about Legion were... guess what... class pruning and gutted mechanics.

    And it isn't about "muh rpg", because you seem to forget that the game is still being advertised as an MMORPG in Blizzard's official website.
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Dead wrong. One of the biggest complaints about Legion were... guess what... class pruning and gutted mechanics.

    And it isn't about "muh rpg", because you seem to forget that the game is still being advertised as an MMORPG in Blizzard's official website.
    Yes, class pruning when cool utility spells you wanted to used where taken away.

    No DPS war or Rogue wanted to be the bitch that had to put up armor debuff. Know why? Because it was a personal dps loss and not fun. There is a reason the magic debuff was always just auto apply on attacks, and the new bfa versions of these abilities are as well.

    So tell me more about how "wrong" I am. No rogue or dps war was mad they no longer had to lose dps to throw up armor debuff, in fact the opposite is true they where happy they would never have that bitch duty thrown on them again.

    Nobody cares about abilities that are worthless and nobody missed in the first place. Only things you where forced to use for your group to be optimal. Great "rpg mechanics" my dude.

  20. #100
    Old God Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Yes, class pruning when cool utility spells you wanted to used where taken away.

    No DPS war or Rogue wanted to be the bitch that had to put up armor debuff. Know why? Because it was a personal dps loss and not fun to me. There is a reason the magic debuff was always just auto apply on attacks, and the new bfa versions of these abilities are as well.

    So tell me more about how "wrong" I am. No rogue or dps war was mad (I have no stats whatsoever to back this claim, but hey, it's the internet) they no longer had to lose dps to throw up armor debuff, in fact the opposite is true they where happy they would never have that bitch duty thrown on them again.

    I don't care about abilities that are worthless and I am not missing in the first place. Only things you where forced to use for your group to be optimal. Great "rpg mechanics" my dude.
    Isn't that the entire point of the game? I thought it was interaction between players, not just a dick measuring contest. Also italics for correcting BS
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

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