Perhaps a Lot are Misinterpreting the "Level Squish"

[LuminaL]

The purpose of reducing the max level to 60 is to make it so when Classic Wow & Retail Wow merge in wow 2, the level caps aren't different.
Expect to see Retail & Classic merge player bases in a new WOW2 come 2-3 years.

wow 2 is a fast bullet to the head of slowly dying of old age old man.

there is a huge chance that it never happen, and the remaining % is that it dies faster than a kid with ignorant antivaxer parents.

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But fun isn't necessarily pooled at max content. There are lots of features and game content within leveling bracket that is fun for a lot of audiences. They just have to highlight it.

lets face it, no matter how much you say there is so much fun before hitting max level, I think its safe to say 9 out of 10 players just rush it to hit max content because there is no fun in it.
maybe 10 years ago, it was fun, you saw lots of people on your way and in your adventures and quests and it was fun because everything was new and the world felt damn big and you havent even discovered a quarter of it. at some point after Cata zone rework it felt the same too, but not for long.

today you just do the levels because its the necessary evil of reaching the max level content. its like those boring ass, unrelated, useless shit classes with nerve breaking teachers in university you need to pass to get your degree.

you dont see anyone anymore, even if you see someone, there is a 99.9% chance they will just ignore you because they are in a hurry to ding max. and you already been in that zone, you would have probably memorized every quest givers dialogs if you could bother to read it for the first time.

[vertigo12]

wow 2 is a fast bullet to the head of slowly dying of old age old man.

there is a huge chance that it never happen, and the remaining % is that it dies faster than a kid with ignorant antivaxer parents.

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lets face it, no matter how much you say there is so much fun before hitting max level, I think its safe to say 9 out of 10 players just rush it to hit max content because there is no fun in it.
maybe 10 years ago, it was fun, you saw lots of people on your way and in your adventures and quests and it was fun because everything was new and the world felt damn big and you havent even discovered a quarter of it. at some point after Cata zone rework it felt the same too, but not for long.

today you just do the levels because its the necessary evil of reaching the max level content. its like those boring ass, unrelated, useless shit classes with nerve breaking teachers in university you need to pass to get your degree.

you dont see anyone anymore, even if you see someone, there is a 99.9% chance they will just ignore you because they are in a hurry to ding max. and you already been in that zone, you would have probably memorized every quest givers dialogs if you could bother to read it for the first time.

There's a reason why a level squish or a scaling max level should be implemented so things SHOULDN'T be rushed unnecessarily.

They may implement alt friendly skip mechanics for most quests if their main is already done with a streamlined quest and was able to unlock higher tier content like raid etc.

[Anastacy]

“A fighter who wields flame in battle.”

Hah. Hahaha. Hahahahahahahaha.

[LuminaL]

There's a reason why a level squish or a scaling max level should be implemented so things SHOULDN'T be rushed unnecessarily.

They may implement alt friendly skip mechanics for most quests if their main is already done with a streamlined quest and was able to unlock higher tier content like raid etc.

what do you suggest for that ? a level squish alone does nothing to solve that. mechanics being alt friendly only means easier ways to rush. it doesnt lower levels to be more enjoyable.

one of the best leveling systems IMO is implemented in GW2. you can join and do almost anything you can do in max level. it still gives you some kind of penalty/punishment for not having all your abilities. and after you hit the max level you still have some new things to do.
having dynamic events also helps a lot more than just quests. it feels great when the castle you are in suddenly becomes an attack point for centaurs and you have to defend it and nobody cares what level you are because everyone can help there the way max level/gear players do.

[Eurhetemec]

One data point........ /golfclap

No. Quite a few data points, actually - and in many cases I have multiple characters who are that level, from this patch. As do a couple of friends who leveled in similar ways. And I've looked up how long other people say, too - and those numbers are very close to mine (often slightly longer but not much). Your criticism here is the kind that's totally without value. You're not even saying I'm wrong, I suspect because you know I'm right. You're just sneering and not adding anything.

If you really do think I'm wrong, and you're not just being difficult, why not provide what you think are some accurate numbers?

[Keeper Stalladris]

Maybe what they intend to do was never cut the maximum level into a percent of what it is now but perhaps, what they mean by "squishing" is gradual introduction of a lower level max "soft cap" until it gradually reach the expac's max intended level cap like a scalingmax level....
After all every system of scaling mechanics are now in place..
Your thoughts?

No. They know what level squish means. We know what level squish means. It means reducing the level.

[Eurhetemec]

Yet I'm still not wrong.

Well, yes, you are. Your claim was "It is unlikely that WoW will get another expansion, or that a Democrat will win in 2020".

That is your claim (not an argument - you didn't make any argument, just claimed something).

Now you seem to want to try and flip your claim and say "WELL I SAID UNLIKELY NOT IMPOSSIBLE SO I AM RIGHT!!!!", but no, you're still not, certainly re: BfA being the last expansion. It's not "unlikely" WoW will get another expansion, and that is what you claimed. It is almost completely certain WoW will get another expansion. Short of the internet being destroyed or a meteorite hitting Blizzard HQ, there's not much that could stop it.

Now I can see you may have just screwed up. Maybe what you meant to say was "I am quite sure WoW will get another expansion!", but that's not what you wrote.

[arkanon]

No. Quite a few data points, actually - and in many cases I have multiple characters who are that level, from this patch. As do a couple of friends who leveled in similar ways. And I've looked up how long other people say, too - and those numbers are very close to mine (often slightly longer but not much). Your criticism here is the kind that's totally without value. You're not even saying I'm wrong, I suspect because you know I'm right. You're just sneering and not adding anything.

If you really do think I'm wrong, and you're not just being difficult, why not provide what you think are some accurate numbers?

I am saying you are wrong. I am saying that one data point, or even 2, is not even remotely close to enough data to formulate a conclusion. I am saying there are multiple variables you are not taking into account. You have presented an absolutely perfect example of what is called an Argument from ignorance. in short, it says that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false. Its a favorite here on the forums, and to be fair, most forums around the net.

[Azerate]

Probably the easiest thing to do is cut the amount of experience needed for each level by 50% or so (except for 110-120). Keeping the same 1-120 levels but just make leveling faster.

You don't seem to understand the whole point of a "Squish". It's done to reduce the noise purely. Many are suspecting that there will be other changes to leveling at the same time, but squish in itself, just serves to reduce the inflated numbers.

For all we know, they might opt to make the leveling process longer, with less levels towards the cap.

their goal is to sell much more char boosts

so dont be surprised when after change leveling will take 200% current time.

because "everybody on classic beta loves slow hard leveling"

im just saying "be careful what you wish for"

Yeah....so I guess that's why they practically halved the leveling length in the previous patch and make the 1-120 journey about 25-30 hours total. Nice tinfoil hat theories, but they disagree with facts.

[gaymer77]

I think what they're going to do is change it so that you only gain 5 levels for every expansion out there. This would lower the overall level by a lot and bring all expansions in line with each other to be 5 instead of 5 or 10. I'm all in favor of this!

[Eurhetemec]

I am saying you are wrong. I am saying that one data point, or even 2, is not even remotely close to enough data to formulate a conclusion. I am saying there are multiple variables you are not taking into account. You have presented an absolutely perfect example of what is called an Argument from ignorance. in short, it says that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false. Its a favorite here on the forums, and to be fair, most forums around the net.

You have no actual argument here.

You're just sneering. I'm not arguing from ignorance. I'm arguing from the best data I can gather, and it's not data that is genuinely in dispute by anyone but you. No-one has suggested my figures are wrong, nor are they likely to, because probably accord with their experience for dungeon-leveling in 8.1/8.1.5.

What's your data? It appears to be absolutely nothing at all. You're now claiming that you're saying I'm wrong, but you've provided no evidence that I am in any way wrong. Until you present either:

A) Some data - you've presented none.

or

B) A rational argument that lays out what you believe are the variables not taken into account, and isn't a strawman that ignores what I'm saying.

Then you just have nothing. And you're lazily misusing a logical construct you don't even understand. That's very popular on the internet, too!

[glowpipe]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! You think WoW will have another expansion after BfA...

It's possible, but so is a democrat winning next year's election.

You do realize that the next expansion after bfa has already been worked on for a few years already and in not too long, the planning phase of 10.0 will start if it hasn't already

[arkanon]

You have no actual argument here.

You're just sneering. I'm not arguing from ignorance. I'm arguing from the best data I can gather, and it's not data that is genuinely in dispute by anyone but you. No-one has suggested my figures are wrong, nor are they likely to, because probably accord with their experience for dungeon-leveling in 8.1/8.1.5.

What's your data? It appears to be absolutely nothing at all. You're now claiming that you're saying I'm wrong, but you've provided no evidence that I am in any way wrong. Until you present either:

A) Some data - you've presented none.

or

B) A rational argument that lays out what you believe are the variables not taken into account, and isn't a strawman that ignores what I'm saying.

Then you just have nothing. And you're lazily misusing a logical construct you don't even understand. That's very popular on the internet, too!

Have a read of this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

You just explained it nicely for me, but have a read and educate yourself. Please dont bring up the idea of a strawman when you clearly have absolutely no idea what you are talking about there.

If you struggle to comprehend - let me help you out. Saying your data is right just because no one is proving it wrong is the very definition of an argument from ignorance. Its a favorite tool for people trying to present data with a small sample size.

If you dont like clicking links, ill post a few highlights for you:

Appeal to ignorance: the claim that whatever has not been proven false must be true, and vice versa

Often seen in anecdotal evidence, superstitions, correlation-causation fallacies, and experiments with small sample size

I could keep going, but i honestly think there is enough information here for you to come to the right conclusion. No offense intended, you put your limited data forward, and i explained why that data is not substantial enough to draw any conclusions. You got a bit upset, and i have explained WHY the argument you keep presenting is a fallacy.

[Chakah]

I don't think there's any other way to interpret this than a reduction of the level cap, below 120.

I think this is a brilliant ploy. And a trial balloon only.

I think they purposely phrased this survey question this way, knowing it would be leaked onto the internet, even though the final decision hasn't been made. Watching the discussions that happen the forums and on sites like MMO-C is hugely valuable (Hi Ion /wave).

If the reception by us was positive, they can proceed with a risky change more confidently. If received negatively, they can save the trouble (and cost) of doing a broader survey, and avoid a change that will be rejected by the community and will cost them subscribers.

The potential excitement and enthusiam of 'classic'-style players for future retail WoW would likely increase. The developers pushing this change get plausable deniabliity by possibly claiming that marketing was ahead of the actual development/system.

They can also idea-mine the forums for better alternate solutions like the parallel expansion squish.

Its just brilliant.

[Velerios]

Probably the easiest thing to do is cut the amount of experience needed for each level by 50% or so (except for 110-120). Keeping the same 1-120 levels but just make leveling faster.

Nope, it's a psychological effect. As a new player: how the hell should you catch up to 120? Compared to level to 60, even if the amount of time stays the same, it's much more believeable to catch up.

But i still hope for another solution to catch up, skipping some content for example; i would personally like the system taliesin in his video explained: allowing us to play through a whole continent rather than being forced to move on: do somebody like mists of pandaria: after level 20, you can level there up to 60. Do you like WotLK: you can do it there too. Do you like BfA... nah, let's not dive into the world of "things that never happen"

[Palisis]

Uh no, they mean to make max level of BfA around 60 then the next expansion will increase the cap by 5-10.

If you've been around for any amount of time regarding the iLvl/Stat Squishes, you'd know the Level Squish will be exactly the same thing.

I'm predicting:
Vanilla: 1-20 (if allied races start at 20 still, this means they skip all vanilla content)
BC+LK: Now permanently fused together, 20-30 (this applies to all dungeons including heroics, raids, etc of both) [DKs start at 25 and hit 30 by the time they finish the DK intro, skipping all of their main expansion)
Cata+MoP: 30-40 (same deal as above)
WoD+Legion: 40-50 (DHs start at 45 and hit 50 by the end of the intro, also skipping their expansion like DKs)
BfA: 50-55 or 50-60 (unsure which it would be)
Expansion 8: 55-60 or 60-70, depending on if they want 5 or 10 levels for expansions moving forward.

I think its going to be more a of a choice of what expansion you want to level in up to max level of last expansion... e.g. at level 10 (or maybe 20) you can decide "Defeat the Lich King" or "Explore Pandaria" something like that and you can then get to level 60. The new expansion would then be 60-70.

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Nope, it's a psychological effect. As a new player: how the hell should you catch up to 120? Compared to level to 60, even if the amount of time stays the same, it's much more believeable to catch up.

But i still hope for another solution to catch up, skipping some content for example; i would personally like the system taliesin in his video explained: allowing us to play through a whole continent rather than being forced to move on: do somebody like mists of pandaria: after level 20, you can level there up to 60. Do you like WotLK: you can do it there too. Do you like BfA... nah, let's not dive into the world of "things that never happen"

^ LIterally this.

[Eurhetemec]

Wow @arkanon.

So you have no argument at all? You have no evidence, no nothing, just complaining and from the wiki, wildly misusing the term "argument from ignorance". Okay, I guess it's time for you to go on ignore, because you're just a time-waster.

[rrayy]

The purpose of reducing the max level to 60 is to make it so when Classic Wow & Retail Wow merge in wow 2, the level caps aren't different.
Expect to see Retail & Classic merge player bases in a new WOW2 come 2-3 years.

Not going to happen. AT ALL.

[Raugnaut]

People are misinterpreting the squish insofar as the belief that they are losing something in the process. I'm still astounded as to the illogical reactions people are making. It literally doesn't matter whether the max level is 120, or 60, or 40. Just like it doesn't matter whether everyone is doing 10 million dps, or 100 dps. It just reduces the number noise.

What you're saying in the OP makes no sense though, or maybe I'm too stupid to understand it.




No it's not. This is pure fantasy BS. If I'm wrong, please provide any source on this.

The "level-squish" is almost entirely due to Blizzard having continually gutting each and every single class every expansion to the point that you now get 10-15 or so abilities over an entire 120 levels, leaving the vast majority of levels "empty" so to say. And rather then Blizz increasing the toolkits of all of the classes to cover up for it, they instead decided to cover up the problem itself with this level squish, so instead of having 100 empty levels, we now have 40 or whatever. So it's essentially the same as covering up someone with their entrails hanging out with a blanket so you don't see the mess. They are still dying, and if you lift the blanket you'll gag from the stench, but hey, if nobody sees it, its all ok right?

There's also the 100% guaranteed effects it's going to have on timewalking - Mainly, with a level squish, virtually ALL old content gear will likely receive the "Legacy set disabled" tag on them - This means MoP cloak, WoD ring, Legiondaries+Legion Tier, Classic->WotLK legendaries, all misc items with special procs, ect, rendered stat sticks at all levels.

Finally, I find it much more likely that the squish would result in all old content (Everything pre-9.0) being treated the same - Virtually all pre-Legion raids have similar HP numbers now at similar player number count (MoP 25, Wrath 25, and WoD Mythic bosses could basically be used interchangebly now. Fun fact - LK 25 heroic has more HP then every other legacy boss nowadays), and outdoor mobs also have similar power levels as players barely grow in ilvl from 60-110. So I feel that blizzard would squish everything down to 60, and have everything scale 1-60.

They would also likely make DKs and DHs start at 20, and allied races start at 1 with a lvl squish.

Hierlooms would also likely be "shrunk" to a single upgrade level, if any at all, thus, those hundred of thousands of gold people spent to upgrade their hierlooms? Wasted!

I can totally see Blizzard leaving flying at lvl 60 too, so that all the players have to "see the content on foot!" Pathfinder's only kick in at 60 too!

But yea, we will see how much Blizz fucks up WoW with the level squish. Personally, if the issue is that 1-120 feels empty, Blizzard could just make it to where new characters start at 80, 90 or something, with an option to level up a character from 1 for heritage.. toys, armor, ect.

[rhorle]

But yea, we will see how much Blizz fucks up WoW with the level squish. Personally, if the issue is that 1-120 feels empty, Blizzard could just make it to where new characters start at 80, 90 or something, with an option to level up a character from 1 for heritage.. toys, armor, ect.

You call Blizzards method a band aid but literally apply a band aid solution to the problem. By just allowing people to skip 1-79/89 and have 80/90-120 be empty. The problem with higher levels is bloat. Expanding a classes kit just for the sake of adding new things in is dumb. Most games can do it because longevity isn't an issue or the push alternate advancement systems to bring on the "new stuff".

I don't need more abilities that are useless. Or more abilities that just get removed for the next expansions new ability. Its not like unlocking abilities every level makes the process better. It is the same process with distractions added in. The only reason why ability unlocks matter is because you can finally use them. Leveling is the means to the end in WoW. It has nothing to do with abilities but just everything to do with the number.

What is the point in having 120 levels if you spend 30 mins a level? At some point adjusting the experience down makes the levels irrelevant. You might as well just squish the levels.