Meet antifa's secret weapon against far-right extremists

[Machismo]

I have no issue with this. All this is, is someone compiling a lot of data, and using it to create profiles. This is what free speech and the "market of ideas" is all about.

[Doctor Amadeus]

I am not trying to come off as anything other than a person concerned with something that might be flawed, why the aggro?

I disagree with the premise you are presenting. People should be accountable to the things they say in public including me. I recognize other considerations certainly, but someone espousing racist views should be forced to stand behind that.

Is raising concern a cause for being labeled alt right too?

Not at all in and of itself, it doesn't matter what you would label yourself, you don't need to defend your right to have an opinion whatever it is, forget the labels, the only thing that matters is why you have that opinion and what you are arguing.

Calm the hell down, Jesus H Christ.For merely making a standard concern hoping for an actual answer you reply throwing insults and venom.

Not venom at all, I am calling out the fact you need to point this flawed idea because someone calls you out as being wrong or others that some how is the same as someone calling you alt-right. It isn't

It shouldn't really matter

Also what have I said over and over? I have made literally one reply to this topic?

You bring it up pretty often in fact there is an entire Cyberpunk2077 where you do it over and over and over pushing this narrative on there too, and it honestly comes off as parroting and I am telling you so.

Disagree, or agree, but when you worry so much about labels rather than the substance of what you are arguing it makes what you are saying come off as suspect

Seriously what political views have I used? Outside of actual concerns, you seem to be assuming stuff that I haven't said it makes me wonder if you are even replying to the right person.,

Also what the hell is this even about, nothing you have said here has anything to down with my post.... Are you well?

Concern is fine and when it is genuine again it doesn't really matter where it comes from. Obviously not completely because who you are goes to as much as what you represent, but you aren't going to hide from that fact or any other by reminding anybody what you should or shouldn't be labeled.


We are talking about how people get defined, well guess what I am an adult I am responsible for how I am defined more to what I accept and from whom.

Honestly this whole doxxing thing, or outing extremist is a good thing, especially white supremacist. However this concern for well it could backfire because what if it's something "YOU" believe in that isn't socially acceptable.


UM if you are a leftist you fucking already know, the the civil rights movement, for example just one of the fights among many still fought in the minority. Obviously some things have changed a little bit, and what change has been made you have some very stupid people who want to change it right back.


But either way, it shouldn't matter how popular or unpopular your opinions are, what should matter is what logic and reason powers your conviction.



Shit I call myself a male feminist, that is NOT a fucking popular thing to say and never has been, but I wouldn't say that as some sort of card or badge. It also doesn't shield me as though I couldn't be sexist or a bit of a misogynist myself.

That doesn't suddenly mean I have a position of a woman or that I can say or express anything and everything unchecked. I can still be wrong


Being left you can still be wrong, so if some leftest, or someone black, or shit the pop says something or does something they shouldn't, this is the real world stand by and OWN IT.


People complaining so much about wanting to talk and have an argument and blah blah blah yeah SURE fine be UN PC just don't let people know who you really are RIGHT?

Seriously left or right, those are conversations anyone needs.

[Independent voter]

What happens if the computer science professor gets a false positive and an innocent person is implicated.

Is there somewhere a person can appeal? Is there a court with a judge and a trial?

[Mistame]

I've no problems with people held accountable for what they say or do, as long as it's done organically. If Billy Bob McRacist says something stupid on Farcebook where his boss sees it and fires him, so be it. But the entire notion of "social justice" is inherently a fallacy, primarily because the majority of society is too stupid to administer "justice" in any form. So if Billy Bob McRacist gets fired, he deserves it. If Sue Anne McSJW gets jail time for what could easily be perceived as cyber-stalking, she deserves it.

[smityx]

Honestly this whole doxxing thing, or outing extremist is a good thing, especially white supremacist. However this concern for well it could backfire because what if it's something "YOU" believe in that isn't socially acceptable.

That's the problem with this whole thing is it's not going to just stop with the white supremacist. Once they are dealt with it will be onto to next type on their list of undesirables.

There's a saying that is perfectly in line with what can/will happen here:

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

[Doctor Amadeus]

That's the problem with this whole thing is it's not going to just stop with the white supremacist. Once they are dealt with it will be onto to next type on their list of undesirables.

There's a saying that is perfectly in line with what can/will happen here:

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Yeah except for the fact you do an entire leap frog over the very reason why we have that cute little passage you quoted.


I am perfectly ok with white supremacist being dragged out and exposed for who they are. If we did that everyone else would be just fine.


There is no argument that is going to be made that solves this, I don't need to be tolerant of intolerant people who seek to target and murder anyone they don't see as fit.

If anybody ever comes for me, or anyone not white it's going to be the people some advocate should be tolerated and defended. Eh no wrong.




Oh and by the way just in case you think this is a NEW thing yeah Nazi Germany by many Rabbi's and philosophical folk were told the same thing. That didn't turn out so well.

- - - Updated - - -

What happens if the computer science professor gets a false positive and an innocent person is implicated.

Is there somewhere a person can appeal? Is there a court with a judge and a trial?

Then they get a lawyer and sue for defamation. As they should.

[Rennadrel]

This is not ever going to happen, because your actions always reflect on your employer; if you're behaving badly, your employer can choose to either take a stance, or look the other way, and regardless of their choice, it's still a choice. And your employer will wear the consequences of that choice.

Take some personal responsibility for your own bad behaviour, rather than trying to argue you shouldn't face any consequences.

You've proven my point, thanks. Where someone works should be of no business to anyone other than the employee. Fishing for people's personal information in order to get them fired is literally harassment and reeks of fascism. I mean, if you are dumb enough to spout racist rhetoric on LinkedIn or any other social media platform where you represent your workplace, you deserve to have your ass canned, but otherwise, no. What one's individual political or social opinions are isn't representative of their employer, and most companies social media stances are that so long as you aren't degrading your employer online, they really don't care what else you say. I know what my employers conduct policies are, and that's the reality at any rate. I could spout off whatever verbal diatribe I wanted to and be the world's biggest bigot, they won't do squat if it doesn't involve them.

[jeezusisacasual]

What happens if the computer science professor gets a false positive and an innocent person is implicated.

Is there somewhere a person can appeal? Is there a court with a judge and a trial?

I am sure that everyone will dispute the case against them when it comes to their job, it is not a charge against them in the court of law just public opinion. As a son of immigrants from the middle east i have seen my fair share of stupidity from white people who have no idea how good they have it. My father even served this nation during Vietnam but did that change once 9/11 happened? Did that stop the attacks or stupid people? No so i support burning them down with any way possible to ruin their finances in this case jobs, make them feel that desperation. Let them feel a small slice of that bigotry for a bit and perhaps they will understand how horrible they have been.

Honestly i hear all the time how " Real Americans " are tough pull them up by their bootstraps types? But when they face a singular problem they feel entitled in the sense that oh it was only a joke or they meant nothing by it? Only the victims get to say if it was a joke or what they meant by it as they are the ones feeling the actions of those words. I am always in the line of thought of hurting people with their pocketbook as it is not violent.

I also give exemptions to age in regards to time passed like do not judge someone after a few years have passed as they are likely far different in terms of thought process. Let people evolve is all i am saying.

[Machismo]

You've proven my point, thanks. Where someone works should be of no business to anyone other than the employee. Fishing for people's personal information in order to get them fired is literally harassment and reeks of fascism. I mean, if you are dumb enough to spout racist rhetoric on LinkedIn or any other social media platform where you represent your workplace, you deserve to have your ass canned, but otherwise, no. What one's individual political or social opinions are isn't representative of their employer, and most companies social media stances are that so long as you aren't degrading your employer online, they really don't care what else you say. I know what my employers conduct policies are, and that's the reality at any rate. I could spout off whatever verbal diatribe I wanted to and be the world's biggest bigot, they won't do squat if it doesn't involve them.

Except it is the business of the employer, and how an employee behaves can reflect negatively on a company. It's not harassment, it's others utilizing their free speech to tell someone what their employee states publicly. As for the rest of your comment, you are arguing against yourself. After all, you are saying your employer doesn't care if you say something bigoted, so you should have no problem with someone bringing it to their attention.

Here's a thought, maybe a business owner doesn't want to em,ploy a racist, so they would wire them if they found out, regardless of whether that person's comments would reflect poorly on a business, or not. Freedom of speech and freedom of association are wonderful things.

[Endus]

You've proven my point, thanks. Where someone works should be of no business to anyone other than the employee. Fishing for people's personal information in order to get them fired is literally harassment and reeks of fascism. I mean, if you are dumb enough to spout racist rhetoric on LinkedIn or any other social media platform where you represent your workplace, you deserve to have your ass canned, but otherwise, no. What one's individual political or social opinions are isn't representative of their employer, and most companies social media stances are that so long as you aren't degrading your employer online, they really don't care what else you say. I know what my employers conduct policies are, and that's the reality at any rate. I could spout off whatever verbal diatribe I wanted to and be the world's biggest bigot, they won't do squat if it doesn't involve them.

At this point, you're just complaining that people have freedom of speech and freedom of association, and calling for some pretty serious restrictions on those freedoms.

Just to protect racists from being treated as racists.

[Orby]

You bring it up pretty often in fact there is an entire Cyberpunk2077 where you do it over and over and over pushing this narrative on there too, and it honestly comes off as parroting and I am telling you so.

Disagree, or agree, but when you worry so much about labels rather than the substance of what you are arguing it makes what you are saying come off as suspect

Of all the topics where I have huge opinion on you choose that one?

Maybe you ignored my other threads like my arguments against Crowder and the fact I sided with Vox. Or the thread where I not only went out protesting but spoke out against Trumps UK visit. And many other threads where have I expressed very left leaning views. You seriously were outraged by a video game thread. Boy you sure know how to pick'em

Don't think you can judge or know me just because you read one thread about my opinions where I just so happen to disagree with you on, you can disagree sure, I have opinions not narratives to push, they are my own and they are not tied down to my political beliefs (some are for personal reasons).

Honestly this whole doxxing thing, or outing extremist is a good thing, especially white supremacist. However this concern for well it could backfire because what if it's something "YOU" believe in that isn't socially acceptable.

I never said it wasnt socially acceptable I am for it completely but like everything it could have flaws, and I used Youtube as an example because it has also used bots to tackle hate speech and ended up flagging people for stuff that has no such material involved. That's the issue I have, its not a flaw in the cause but a flaw in the program that I have issue with.

UM if you are a leftist you fucking already know, the the civil rights movement, for example just one of the fights among many still fought in the minority. Obviously some things have changed a little bit, and what change has been made you have some very stupid people who want to change it right back.

But either way, it shouldn't matter how popular or unpopular your opinions are, what should matter is what logic and reason powers your conviction.

Shit I call myself a male feminist, that is NOT a fucking popular thing to say and never has been, but I wouldn't say that as some sort of card or badge. It also doesn't shield me as though I couldn't be sexist or a bit of a misogynist myself.

That doesn't suddenly mean I have a position of a woman or that I can say or express anything and everything unchecked. I can still be wrong

Oh dear, if you think I am wearing my virtue on my sleeve you obviously know nothing about me if you think that's the best I got. I got so many badges I can show this forum, that you being a male feminist pales in comparison (also who isn't a male feminist, it's 2019, if you don't support women's rights by now we are all lost)

Being left you can still be wrong, so if some leftest, or someone black, or shit the pop says something or does something they shouldn't, this is the real world stand by and OWN IT.

People complaining so much about wanting to talk and have an argument and blah blah blah yeah SURE fine be UN PC just don't let people know who you really are RIGHT?

It's not about being UN PC, it's about raising genuine concern about a system. A system not ran by humans as Youtube has proven isn't very successful. You act like I am trying to say that racism is good or trying to excuse it. That's not the argument. But you obviously seem scared of the posts I made in the Cyberpunk thread that it caused you to over react and lash out at me on this thread.

I aint going to get any more into this because we are getting too far off topic and very personal. Hopefully before you start judging people you can do more research into who you are judging before you jump to conclusions about them. I actually liked you as a poster but the way you conducted yourself in that first reply was pretty petty and ignorant.

[ParanoiD84]

Dont care, antifa still is and will always be absolute garbage though. Needs to be said.

[Revi]

Where you said "likely", that's where you admitted you were making it up and had nothing to base that claim on.

Can only base future behavior on the past. Unless you think people behave entirely randomly or that you can 100% accurately predict future behavior, there's no issue with me admitting uncertainty.

Do you think it's a baseless claim to say that publicizing the identity of what far-left groups consider far-right extremists will lead to harassment or threats against them? Honestly?

[Doctor Amadeus]

Of all the topics where I have huge opinion on you choose that one?

Maybe you ignored my other threads like my arguments against Crowder and the fact I sided with Vox. Or the thread where I not only went out protesting but spoke out against Trumps UK visit. And many other threads where have I expressed very left leaning views. You seriously were outraged by a video game thread. Boy you sure know how to pick'em

You asked me a question I picked one of your more recent post, one where I wasn't even involved just reading your replies, and now you are saying "Oh well, you haven't seen all my other threads" really dude that is your deflection.

What does Crowder have to do with this, I am not calling you alt-right as you seem to go on about, I am just pointing out you are wrong and it wouldn't matter if you are soft left, left or hard left or whatever.

It's not outrage, just pointing out you spend more time on details like labels and less on actual substantive argument.

Don't think you can judge or know me just because you read one thread about my opinions where I just so happen to disagree with you on, you can disagree sure, I have opinions not narratives to push, they are my own and they are not tied down to my political beliefs (some are for personal reasons).

Yeah but then if i did that your next rebuttal would be about me stalking you, seriously dude, it was a criticism and observation, and I don't give a shit what you call yourself.

The only thing that would ever make me think we are on the same side or have the same mind about anything is your argument and the details of logic and reason you put behind that.

Anything else you say is just like anything else I say, it's nice, and it's information, but you calling yourself left means about as much to me as you calling yourself the worst person in the world, or GOD. None of that is relevant or especially true or not true

I never said it wasnt socially acceptable I am for it completely but like everything it could have flaws, and I used Youtube as an example because it has also used bots to tackle hate speech and ended up flagging people for stuff that has no such material involved. That's the issue I have, its not a flaw in the cause but a flaw in the program that I have issue with.

Good, why is that a problem, unless said system doesn't have a way to correct for errors, which so far I haven't seen any arguments to suggest that. All I keep hearing is well what if it's you, what if it's someone on the left.

I'll answer that if it's me then I guess I am fucked, but I made my bed.

If it's someone on the left "Oh Well" I guess they shouldn't have been stupid or a racist P.O.S

I don't see a down side if you are going to bang on free speech, again I don't believe in that absolute especially when it comes to private property or hate speech.

Oh dear, if you think I am wearing my virtue on my sleeve you obviously know nothing about me if you think that's the best I got. I got so many badges I can show this forum, that you being a male feminist pales in comparison (also who isn't a male feminist, it's 2019, if you don't support women's rights by now we are all lost)

Well I am not going to read you telling me what you consider yourself, or make any other claims I think are relevant to the actual topic. Me not believing you isn't the same as me saying you are lying, but without evidence as proof then your claim is simply just that unless there is a reason to examine that.

Which in general it isn't but as I said you seem to throw up well you're kind of a left or leftist, which is fine, not like anyone is taking that away from you, but then you bang on about something contrary as if A you won't or can't be called out on your shit like anybody else, and B That isn't suspicious when you actively always say it right after you say something contrary and use the well if I don't agree with the left bullshit "I guess I am going to be called a Nazi"

I don't know you, maybe someone said that to you in the past, maybe someone just called out your ideas and you took offense instead of self reflection. I don't know.

But just because someone calls you a name doesn't make it true, just like someone making a claim doesn't either.

However when your behavior says and suggest one thing, while you say another, you are either a liar or a confused.


Either way the labels don't matter unless we are specifically talking about actions and behavior.

It's not about being UN PC, it's about raising genuine concern about a system. A system not ran by humans as Youtube has proven isn't very successful. You act like I am trying to say that racism is good or trying to excuse it. That's not the argument. But you obviously seem scared of the posts I made in the Cyberpunk thread that it caused you to over react and lash out at me on this thread.

You are really trying to milk this for all it's worth. You asked me for an example, I gave you one, and honestly kind of like many especially Alt-Right you cling to this bullshit of attacking what I said, instead of taking stock of why I said it.

Which is because you asked me for an example. Now you are prattling on about me being upset and whatever other nonsense.

I aint going to get any more into this because we are getting too far off topic and very personal. Hopefully before you start judging people you can do more research into who you are judging before you jump to conclusions about them. I actually liked you as a poster but the way you conducted yourself in that reply was pretty petty and ignorant.

Well I don't really care if you liked me, and if you can't be honest then this conversation can die here.


World about more than being liked or what is popular, or titles, or whatever the hell else, you can ask to be judge by the content of your character when you complain when that is exactly what people do.

This is about you saying one thing, doing another, and saying but but I am really not doing what it is it obviously looks like I am doing.


That trick is only going to work so many times until you get known for that is exactly what you do.


Nobody has the right to define YOU, but YOU, you shouldn't give a shit what anybody else thinks of you if you KNOW who you are.

I think it is more important to say what you have to say regardless to labels, and if one fits, so be it

[Endus]

Can only base future behavior on the past. Unless you think people behave entirely randomly or that you can 100% accurately predict future behavior, there's no issue with me admitting uncertainty.

Do you think it's a baseless claim to say that publicizing the identity of what far-left groups consider far-right extremists will lead to harassment or threats against them? Honestly?

It might. Might not. I imagine a lot of this wouldn't get much press coverage at all, since most of these people would be nobodies.

But you're not going off past behaviour. You're making assumptions based on basically nothing.

Besides; if being a racist is such a terrible thing, and you're worried about social fallout, you can just, like, stop being racist. Any time you feel like it. It's that easy.

We should also note that being fired from your job for racist comments and having those comments brought to greater public light is not "harassment", nor is the condescension and antipathy you'd face. That's just people realizing they do not like you and do not want to have anything to do with you, because you're a terrible person. That's your fault, no one else's.

[Revi]

It might. Might not. I imagine a lot of this wouldn't get much press coverage at all, since most of these people would be nobodies.

But you're not going off past behaviour. You're making assumptions based on basically nothing.

Strongly disagree, but I doubt we'll change each others minds on that. I do think you at least see some of what goes on in popular social media like Twitter, so I'm not convinced you believe that.

Besides; if being a racist is such a terrible thing, and you're worried about social fallout, you can just, like, stop being racist. Any time you feel like it. It's that easy.

We should also note that being fired from your job for racist comments and having those comments brought to greater public light is not "harassment", nor is the condescension and antipathy you'd face. That's just people realizing they do not like you and do not want to have anything to do with you, because you're a terrible person. That's your fault, no one else's.

Agreed, if they're actually who the people on the internet say they are. The problem is who is actually a terrible racist, who defines that? If you're outed on the internet as a vile racist, do you think everyone does their own research to fact check that, or does tribalism kick in and people just react? I think the latter.

I guess that's okey because it's all just opinions and it's all legal so that makes it okey.

[Endus]

Agreed, if they're actually who the people on the internet say they are. The problem is who is actually a terrible racist, who defines that? If you're outed on the internet as a vile racist, do you think everyone does their own research to fact check that, or does tribalism kick in and people just react? I think the latter.

I guess that's okey because it's all just opinions and it's all legal so that makes it okey.

Well, now you're just ignoring the thread's topic to rant about something completely unrelated that you've made up.

What exactly is your goal, in doing so?

[Revi]

Well, now you're just ignoring the thread's topic to rant about something completely unrelated that you've made up.

What exactly is your goal, in doing so?

The consequences and problems of doxxing people is the topic. More on topic than deflections about my motivations, that's for sure.

[Endus]

The consequences and problems of doxxing people is the topic. More on topic than deflections about my motivations, that's for sure.

The topic is this one particular effort, where they have actual, verified data they're providing to people. It isn't "opinion" at all. You want to make it about opinion, for some reason.

Calling your motivations into question over that is justified.

[Has lost its way]

Kinda seems a small step away from what the nazi's did to the jews isn't it?


Infracted.