Meet antifa's secret weapon against far-right extremists

[Zython]

The problem is with ANTIFA is that they label anyone they disagree with as fascist and extremist while they themselves are fascist and extremist. There isn't anything good about ANTIFA.

[citation needed]

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So shes going to doxx 40k people, 99% of them won't be white nationalists but a lot of them will have their lives negatively impacted and possibly ruined. Most of these will probably be white men a large portion of which own guns. Seems incredibly stupid and dangerous.

Yeah. We should disarm and deport them.

[Ashenfury]

Would the same list for LGBT people make sense? Of course not. They victimize no one. They're completely harmless and just want to be allowed to live their lives.

My point was mainly that this is a case of "the ends justify the means" rather than "it's fine because it's just public information". Because if it was the latter, it would be fine regardless of the target. Perhaps this is a case where the ends actually do justify the means. But where does it end? Where I grew up we used to have militant vegans that torched trucks and in some cases tried to put the homes of restaurant owners on fire as well (with people inside them). They thought they were the good guys.

Also, note that I have nothing against LGBT people. This was intended as an example how the same method could be used from something that is obviously bad.

[breslin]

[citation needed]

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Yeah. We should disarm and deport them.

good luck with that

[Edge-]

By the way Machismo, if all these cute little [blanks] I'm seeing are about me, don't bother, both you and Endus long since deserved a place on my ignore list.

Have fun having a stroke: https://lmgtfy.com/?q=cnn+defends+antifa



--CNN

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...ng_bigots.html

I mean, here's a link with the full transcript of his comments in context, not just a random snippet used to fit a narrative. The problem is that you're mistaking him qualifying the differences between the two groups and why one is absolutely worthy of more scorn than the other with him defending antifa. Which, if you read the full transcript with all provided context for that lone sentence.

Also, LMGTFY links don't add anything to a discussion. Don't do that.

[Cthulhu 2020]

You sure about that?
Because I clearly remember CNN going on long and about defending Antifa's abhorrent practices of violence and attacking innocents.
And so do many news outlets, journalists and college professors to this day, unlike the ethno-nationalists who're condemned by all mainstream.

And would the "body count" be only metric that matters to you anyway?
No reprehensible ideology starts with high body count, they always begin by infiltrating society with abhorrent ideologies and rethorics first.

Just like how Antifa and the violently authoritarian movement behind it is doing.

You keep making this claim that CNN and others are defending abhorrent antifa practices, and yet can't even come up with a source when asked. Meanwhile sources are provided for all the times Trump has called people to violence.

Again, guess who is in power, guess who is promoting violent practices? Trump? Breitbart? Other alt-right outlets? Hell yeah?

CNN? Not so much.

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Also, LMGTFY links don't add anything to a discussion. Don't do that.

https://lmgtfy.com/?q=why+the+alt-ri...a+in+every+way

I wonder what @Malaky will have to say about this. It's clearly a reputable source, and it shows just how much worse the alt-right has been than antifa by every single metric, objectively, without flaw.

[Mormolyce]

She's getting this info from Facebook posts and the like, which are public. If you don't want people to know you're a bigot, don't post bigoted things in public places...

The problem is with ANTIFA is that they label anyone they disagree with as fascist and extremist while they themselves are fascist and extremist.

"They say everyone who disagrees with them is a fascist extremist!"

*Immediately labels everyone who disagrees with him a fascist extremist*

Congrats zenkai on presenting the purest form of doublethink I've ever seen lol.

What malevolent left winger worth their salt wouldn't love a program that targets only white folks.

So you think the far right are all white? LOL. You're so close to piecing it all together.

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By the way Machismo, if all these cute little [blanks] I'm seeing are about me, don't bother, both you and Endus long since deserved a place on my ignore list.

Why would anyone be ashamed of defending anti-fascism?

[Knolan]

Wife yes, kids no, and no other job ready and waiting.

And regardless, it doesn't matter. We're talking about someone being fired with cause. That last part is pretty important. Racism is cause for firing someone, even if you're in a State where at-will employment doesn't exist and your employer needs cause to fire you.

Cause outside of work, with no connection to it, by a request from a third party? This is quite a stretch.

I think everyone should be allowed to an opinion and private life outside their work. If they bring it to work, sure, fire them, but outside of it, it is your life. How would that, in principle, be different from firing someone for following a religion or being gay?

[Bodakane]

Wait, you were asking me to "show my principles", why are you shifting the goalpost now?

I quite literally explained my principles in the post you quoted, and stand and stood by them always in this thread. Not sure what exactly you want from me.

Learn to read.

I asked you to show your principles BY showing your claims weren't lies. People with principles don't literally make shit up to argue.

You claim to be principled but you're lying all over the place.

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By the way Machismo, if all these cute little [blanks] I'm seeing are about me, don't bother, both you and Endus long since deserved a place on my ignore list.

You're doing ignore wrong.

[Machismo]

So shes going to doxx 40k people, 99% of them won't be white nationalists but a lot of them will have their lives negatively impacted and possibly ruined. Most of these will probably be white men a large portion of which own guns. Seems incredibly stupid and dangerous.

It's not really doxing them if they are saying it in a public fashion. Do you have any evidence that 99% of them won't be white nationalists (or even just racist assholes)? Or, is that simply an attempt by you to deflect for people being called out for their racist bullshit?

If you read the article, she specifically states she will not be doxing people.

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My point was mainly that this is a case of "the ends justify the means" rather than "it's fine because it's just public information". Because if it was the latter, it would be fine regardless of the target. Perhaps this is a case where the ends actually do justify the means. But where does it end? Where I grew up we used to have militant vegans that torched trucks and in some cases tried to put the homes of restaurant owners on fire as well (with people inside them). They thought they were the good guys.

Also, note that I have nothing against LGBT people. This was intended as an example how the same method could be used from something that is obviously bad.

This is simply highlighting what other people have said in front of others, so there should be no problem.

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Cause outside of work, with no connection to it, by a request from a third party? This is quite a stretch.

I think everyone should be allowed to an opinion and private life outside their work. If they bring it to work, sure, fire them, but outside of it, it is your life. How would that, in principle, be different from firing someone for following a religion or being gay?

Maybe an employer simply doesn't want to employ racist trash...

[Bodakane]

Cause outside of work, with no connection to it, by a request from a third party? This is quite a stretch.

I think everyone should be allowed to an opinion and private life outside their work. If they bring it to work, sure, fire them, but outside of it, it is your life. How would that, in principle, be different from firing someone for following a religion or being gay?

Do you own a business?

What would you do if an employee of yours was photographed burning the American flag by the news during a demonstration and he was recognized at work and you lost business because of it?

[Aenigma84]

to be honest while its probably not illegal

this feels like the kind of stuff is what the nazi's would have done if they had the tech for it
a good start at monitoring your population for any unwanted individuals

reminds me of that captain america plot winter soldier
former nazi scientist makes a algoritme to determine who could be a potential righty(threat) based on your social media history ect,

[Najnaj]

The problem is with ANTIFA is that they label anyone they disagree with as fascist and extremist while they themselves are fascist and extremist. There isn't anything good about ANTIFA.

Antifa is not a coherent group with a uniform behavior and they do not label people they do not agree with fascists. It might appear this way since they mainly show up when there are fascists present but you do not see them picket a Clinton rally even though she is very far away from most of them on the political spectrum.

[Machismo]

to be honest while its probably not illegal

this feels like the kind of stuff is what the nazi's would have done if they had the tech for it
a good start at monitoring your population for any unwanted individuals

You have a problem with people actually hearing what someone says to others, and telling people what they heard? That's like saying the old lady who spreads (true) gossip with evidence is a Nazi.

That's a bold move, Cotton.

[Yriel]

Given that all she's doing is collecting and analysing people's publicly-posted statements, I don't see what there is to disagree with.

If "being a racist fuckwad" isn't a bad thing, having her point out that you're a racist fuckwad to your boss shouldn't matter, no? (Note that "you" here is a hypothetical, not any particular person, certainly not anyone posting)

And if he fires you, because it is a bad thing, is it her fault for noticing you're a racist fuckwad? Of course not. It's your fault for being a racist fuckwad, in the first place. You're being fired because you're racist. The only one responsible for that is you. Bitching because people noticed what a terrible person you are is just pathetic. Grow up and take some personal responsibility.


It's information. If it's accurate, you've got no grounds to complain. If it's not accurate, make that argument; if her methodology is crap, she'll stop getting attention.

Here there is a lot of crime here that migrants and refugees are committing and that is reported in regional newspapers.
How about i make a database with the names of all those people and send emails to all their present and future employees. That should be ok, too since they did the crimes and it is all accurate information, right? They are criminal fuckwads, right?

[Machismo]

Here there is a lot of crime here that migrants and refugees are committing and that is reported in regional newspapers.
How about i make a database with the names of all those people and send emails to all their present and future employees. That should be ok, too since they did the crimes and it is all accurate information, right? They are criminal fuckwads, right?

Sure, feel free to tell an employer that their employee is a former criminal. It doesn't need to just be migrants and refugees, do it for everyone.

[Zython]

good luck with that

Why do you oppose doing that to people you admit are violent lunatics?

[Astro420]

Thanks for expressing that you have no fucking clue what fascism or authoritarianism are. That you can't grasp that nothing I wrote suggested government intervention. That this isn't about "opposing opinions" at all, and trying to make that claim is a deliberate attempt to support racists and their views.



In order;

The only person "ruining" a racist's life, when people find out they're racist, is that racist. For being racist. They are 100% at fault for their own choices.

Racism is not just "an idea". And no, it doesn't "decide who you are for your entire life", but if you want to move past it, taking ownership of your abusive behaviour and views, admitting that they were wrong, making apologies to any who were affected, and making a concerted and visible effort to work against such views by others is your starting point. Once you've done that, we can talk about forgiveness. If you're not there yet, you're still a racist and don't give enough of a fuck to change, so why should anyone give you a pass?

Pretty much nobody is calling for "violence". As for "hatred"; if you're espousing views that are abusive towards others based on their ethnicity, you deserve hatred. Same way a wife-beater would. Or a child rapist. Your actions warrant that response from those around you. You've earned it. Stop whining and refusing to take responsibility for your own choices.

Being "far-right" has nothing to do with political parties. And yes; pushing a highly hierarchical and abusive system like racism pretty definitively makes you far-right. This is what words mean. They're not that difficult to understand.

All you're doing here is complaining that individuals should not be judged for their own public conduct and statements, when those statements are abusive in nature. Because you don't think it's "fair" that those abusive individuals should face the consequences of their own actions. Well, tough. That's reality for you. That's freedom. Don't like it? Stop being an awful, abusive person.

Edit: And before you claim that this is abusive, it isn't. Harsh, maybe, but I don't see any reason to pussyfoot around abusive people, who victimize innocents. Those abusers are not innocents; their actions have invited public condemnation. They don't get to whine when society won't put up with their abusive conduct.

If an employer has the right to not be associated with racists, then so does everyone else. What if someone shows up as a false positive on this list? Is he then associated with racists until the end of his life? What if only personal information is released to the public/employer, not the content of their posts.


People have a right to privacy(even alleged racists) and if they do not want to appear on any non-governmental organization's list (and if it's governmental, they should have a legal reason to store your data), they shouldn't be required to do anything. If someone wants to put people on a list, they should request affirmative consent from that person while informing them of the specifics, such as the purpose of the data gathering and length of time for which the data will be stored.

Thank god we have GDPR protections and shit like this is highly illegal in the EU.

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It's the silliest goddamned thing. It's just "NO U", and they expect it to carry weight.

It isn't resorting to violence that makes something "fascist". Were the American Founding Fathers "fascists" for the Revolution? Were the French Resistance under the Reich "fascists" for fighting the Nazis? It's just an asinine, context-free comment.

Violence is absolutely laudable and justifiable, based on context. This is why we have police that are armed, military personnel who fight on our behalf, why self-defense is a valid legal argument, and so on. That doesn't mean I'm defending Antifa's violence, today, but pretending it's the same as fascist violence is as mentally masturbatory as PETA claiming "meat is murder". The only people who applaud that message are those already on your side; everyone else sees you as the extremists you are for making that kind of statement.

It's about who initiates violence, which AntiFa does a lot, and they do so in retaliation to someone attending/having a speech, which makes them, you know...fascist.

[Themius]

If an employer has the right to not be associated with racists, then so does everyone else. What if someone shows up as a false positive on this list? Is he then associated with racists until the end of his life? What if only personal information is released to the public/employer, not the content of their posts.


People have a right to privacy(even alleged racists) and if they do not want to appear on any non-governmental organization's list (and if it's governmental, they should have a legal reason to store your data), they shouldn't be required to do anything. If someone wants to put people on a list, they should request affirmative consent from that person while informing them of the specifics, such as the purpose of the data gathering and length of time for which the data will be stored.

Thank god we have GDPR protections and shit like this is highly illegal in the EU.

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It's about who initiates violence, which AntiFa does a lot, and they do so in retaliation to someone attending/having a speech, which makes them, you know...fascist.

This is a really foolish line.

People posting publically have a right to privacy?

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to be honest while its probably not illegal

this feels like the kind of stuff is what the nazi's would have done if they had the tech for it
a good start at monitoring your population for any unwanted individuals

reminds me of that captain america plot winter soldier
former nazi scientist makes a algoritme to determine who could be a potential righty(threat) based on your social media history ect,

Mm so... so the Israelis who were putting together a list of possible nazis and hunting them were the real nazis?

[Astro420]

This is a really foolish line.

People posting publically have a right to privacy?

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Yes, since you post that information publically with a certain purpose. Otherwise two-party consent laws would be silly.
It is also protected under GDPR.

[Bodakane]

Yes, since you post that information publically with a certain purpose. Otherwise two-party consent laws would be silly.
It is also protected under GDPR.

You are arguing for the equivalent of walking in public and demanding people don’t look at you.