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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by retrogame View Post
    I guess warrior is the only choice xd
    PvE melee DPS? Rogue or Warrior.
    PvP melee DPS? Basically anything is good/alright with the right talents, including Ret.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    Ret is fine outside of Raids. All other content and they are pretty strong, and have great survivability/support. But in Raids, they aren't in the top 5, so generally they aren't really guaranteed a spot.
    Ret is literally one of the very worst raid DPS specs, don't exaggerate. Top 5? Out of the 27 available specs, with 20 of them being DPS specs, Ret is not even top 15 outside of Naxx with very specific gear.

  2. #82
    The Insane Kathandira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Segus1992 View Post
    PvE melee DPS? Rogue or Warrior.
    PvP melee DPS? Basically anything is good/alright with the right talents, including Ret.

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    Ret is literally one of the very worst raid DPS specs, don't exaggerate. Top 5? Out of the 27 available specs, with 20 of them being DPS specs, Ret is not even top 15 outside of Naxx with very specific gear.
    Um. k. So, are you saying they are not in the top 5? Because I also said they are not in the top 5. lol
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  3. #83
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    With good gear they could deal impressive amounts of burst damage and high survivability, with the right gear (a decent two hander and Hand of Justice the big-dick insta-gibs that were popular at the time were quite doable).

    For sustained DPS in endgame they were behind the pack and experienced mana issues in longer fights.

    You could get away with 1 or 2 if your raid was completely full of healers and you needed Blessings still.
    Furthermore, just filling a competent 40man raid was a stretch back then for high-end guilds. so even at the top end there was scope for "off-meta" players with the right mindset.

    The biggest problem (for playing Ret) was that in PvE it was mind numbingly boring.
    Even fighting undead your entire DPS was based on cycling Judgement every 8 seconds and using Exorcism when you had mana.

    Source: Cleared from Lucifron to Sapphiron as current content (with the exception of C'thun) and obtained Grand Marshal as Retribution.
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  4. #84


    Go ret paladins!

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Mercadi View Post
    Everything is known through comparison. If you are having fun questing as a paladin, go ahead, no one's going to criticize. But if your performance in raids is significantly worse than peers from other classes, that may be a reason to get benched (in progression-focused and wannabe elitist guilds).
    Exactly, also raids don't require 40 people anyways, at best 30.
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  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by OriginalName View Post
    Ok, but where are you getting your numbers from can I have some evidence, i'd like hard data. I don't think ret is as good as the other competitive specs, but i'd like to see some hard data, are they doing 100 dps? 200? 300? how long was the fights in vanilla, how long are the fights in private servers, how long do you think fights are going to be in classic?
    It doesn’t matter what your dps is, regardless if it’s 100 or 1000 away from Warriors, rets in raids aren’t there to dps but to keep buffs/debuffs up and maybe throw some offheals.
    But okay, let’s just assume you got some privilage in a guild and you can actually get all the best gear ...and you use mana pots/runes and the 16 extra consumables you benefit from (as compared to Warriors). In theory could you be competative with Warriors? No, still not enough.

    But like I said, dps isn’t the only (or the biggest) reason why no serious raid would take more than 1 ret for Nightfall debuff- in which case you still wouldn’t be a DPS but a support.
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  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by retrogame View Post
    So I had the privilege to play WoW Classic and I really really really mega really enjoy playing as a Paladin.

    I reached mine to 40 and the journey was quite amazing. (The class quests were amazing). I researched the class in depth and after many forum posts and youtube videos around vanilla and Paladins, it become clear that Paladins were a meme for sucking? I am more worried about 60 level content as a Ret Paladin will I be benched by guildies, because they will take a warrior instead? Can someone shine some light on this situation..
    I was in Dues Vox in Vanilla, world 3rd Naxx clear. Also a Grand Marshal. I'm telling you, YES ret sucks vs the damage output of a Warrior. I don't care what anyone here says. No good or reasonable guild will EVER give you a 2 handers over a warrior because you simply serve much, much better as a healer in both raids and pvp. That's all there is to it. I'm sure you can screw around as Ret in a casual guild but know you will never top the meters and a warrior or rogue will always be better than you in group pvp.

  8. #88
    I played Ret in Vanilla.
    This experience taught me stuff like acceptance, selflessness, unity and a sense of martyrdom.
    I did top Recount in dungeons pretty often, but only cuz i was a better player, new about hitboxes or auto-attack mechanics and used potions heavily.
    Raided MC, ZG and BWL, always felt the need to heal during fights when shit hit the fan. (the "i'm a damage dealer" argument goes away, when you see people diying left and right)

    If i'm gonna play Classic, I'll play Enh shaman (love WF animation) or a warrior (love Tier 3 shoulders).
    No more martyrdom for me pls

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by bmjclark View Post
    Good at using salvation? How does one get good at applying a 30 minute buff?
    By choosing the right target at the right time.

  10. #90
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    The more I read threads like this the more concerned I get about the elitist min/max toxic community that Classic might turn in to. I'm still hoping there will be enough casuals that are there to enjoy the experience and have fun even in end game content.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Shelly View Post
    By choosing the right target at the right time.
    Salvation on all the DPS in a raid isn’t really something very difficult to “git guud” at.
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  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anastacy View Post
    Salvation on all the DPS in a raid isn’t really something very difficult to “git guud” at.
    Speaks volumes about desired skillcaps
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  13. #93
    The problem is, even if you're a great player, no guild is going to want to give you gear over warriors just so you can play Ret, so you're not only playing a spec that is limited mathematically in equal gear but also you're going to be like at best #10 in line for upgrades. Even if you want to play Ret and your guild isn't concerned with min/maxing, you're eventually going to want to reroll anyways because you will feel useless. If you're the type of player who doesn't care about their DPS and you get lucky enough to find a decent guild that doesn't care about numbers and still kills bosses then sure, Ret is for you.

    Unfortunately it's rare to find a guild that is ok with people doing 50% of the DPS of their other members while also being good at killing bosses. It's also rare to be a player who doesn't give a shit about their relative contribution. So the majority of Ret PVE'ers are going to end up healing or rerolling in raid, or sticking to MC.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Shelly View Post
    By choosing the right target at the right time.
    Every dps at the start of the fight. Complex. I dont know if you're trying to imply that there'll be some weird kind of blessing twisting similar to totem twisting or something but there won't be. You're very likely to have at least 4 paladins in every raid meaning you can apply the all the important blessings to everyone.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by retrogame View Post
    So I had the privilege to play WoW Classic and I really really really mega really enjoy playing as a Paladin.

    I reached mine to 40 and the journey was quite amazing. (The class quests were amazing). I researched the class in depth and after many forum posts and youtube videos around vanilla and Paladins, it become clear that Paladins were a meme for sucking? I am more worried about 60 level content as a Ret Paladin will I be benched by guildies, because they will take a warrior instead? Can someone shine some light on this situation..
    PVE wise, dungeon wise they did not suck, as for raids the problem was they had no single button attack to spam during raids. if they did their whole set up would pull aggro, just like SP, locks, mages.

    PVP wise they were heavily QQ'd by the horde, not because they were a fuzzy cute carebear class. i remember tons of warrior QQ on paladins. ironicly most of the players who cite fondest memories of how fun powerful their warriors were, played alliance or were on a imbal server were horde dominated.

    even into BC, guides on warriors basiclly said you are not going to beat a paladin 1 vs 1, or 2 vs 1 unless you had the right healer.

    reason ret pals were called lol ret in BC, which actually applied to all paladin specs, blizzard made LOH not useable in arenas

    the shaman video, where he is blowing up everything including pals and wars was a brief period
    Last edited by pinkz; 2019-06-26 at 09:35 PM.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    Um. k. So, are you saying they are not in the top 5? Because I also said they are not in the top 5. lol
    Your comment about them not being in the top 5 is obviously a whine to say "only top 5 dps are allowed in raids" which is wrong, whiny, and not relevant as it doesn't apply to Ret.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    It doesn’t matter what your dps is, regardless if it’s 100 or 1000 away from Warriors, rets in raids aren’t there to dps but to keep buffs/debuffs up and maybe throw some offheals.
    But okay, let’s just assume you got some privilage in a guild and you can actually get all the best gear ...and you use mana pots/runes and the 16 extra consumables you benefit from (as compared to Warriors). In theory could you be competative with Warriors? No, still not enough.

    But like I said, dps isn’t the only (or the biggest) reason why no serious raid would take more than 1 ret for Nightfall debuff- in which case you still wouldn’t be a DPS but a support.
    I have 0 illusions on the matter, ret paladins do less damage than the S tier vanilla specs, however now when fights, even on progression are not longer than 60-120 seconds, I think, this time around that specs like ret paladins, shadowpriests, balance druids, elemental shamans, protection paladins are going to be more favourable (than before), due to the removal of some of the main concerns that existed in the past, mana is no longer an issue in vanilla pve.

    I also think we're going to see a huge shift away from sustain items on healers, mitigation from tanks in favour of higher HPS and higher threat respectively.

    For instance, if you bring 2 (ret) paladins to tank a boss fight rather than the customary warrior tanks, if you go in expecting the fight to be 30 seconds, you can pull and take a ton of damage in trade for threat, bubble and let your paladin offtank take the boss and then he'll bubble. By the time you've cycled this, the boss is dead.
    Last edited by OriginalName; 2019-06-26 at 07:03 PM.

  18. #98
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    iirc, they were amazing for PvP with the right build/gear, but not so much for any PvE content more serious than dungeons (but then, you could get away with almost anything for most dungeons as long as the other people in your group had functioning brains).

    That said, you're still viable in raids as long as you a) don't expect to get anywhere near topping the damage meters and b) don't ignore your utility.
    Last edited by avitush; 2019-06-26 at 10:25 PM.

  19. #99
    The good thing is you can get tier sets that apply to all specs and pretend ret is fun outside of raids.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by OriginalName View Post

    For instance, if you bring 2 (ret) paladins to tank a boss fight rather than the customary warrior tanks, if you go in expecting the fight to be 30 seconds, you can pull and take a ton of damage in trade for threat, bubble and let your paladin offtank take the boss and then he'll bubble. By the time you've cycled this, the boss is dead.
    Ret or Prot paladins wont put out the single target threat to kill a boss quickly.

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