Meet antifa's secret weapon against far-right extremists

[Endus]

Yea I forgot you're perfect

Apparently the standard for "perfect" is just "not outspokenly racist".

That's a low, low fucking bar, friend.

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Muslim Immigration to Europe didn't start till the late 90s and only really picked up after that. So apparently these progressive accepting views didn't start until then either.

You're only off by, oh, 1200 years or so.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Europe

[Astro420]

I don't care why you don't like Muslims. It's still irrational, baseless hate, and it's just as malicious and bullshit as any other kind of bigotry.

Plus, again, islamophobia is ethnoreligious in nature, as is antisemitism. That "ethno" part is why they get rolled into "racism".

If you want a special label, fine, but it doesn't make the bigotry against Muslims any more reasonable or less bullshit.

What if I don't like them because they are followers of a hateful ideology, just like Nazism?
Also, muslims are not an ethnoreligious group, since the 1.8b muslim population is comprised of many ethnicities (which have nothing to do with race, google the definition). Jews are an ethnoreligious group, because all 13m belong to the same ethnic and religious group.

And I was responding to that.

If you've got reason to think a neighbour is planning an attack, you have a duty to report that. Refusing makes you at least somewhat complicit in said attack.

The difference between "suspect" and "know" is fundamentally irrelevant in this context, since we're talking about a private citizen's interpretation, not legal definitions.

Tip: don't accuse others of having poor reading comprehension when you're going to misrepresent their words like this.

Except noone asked about that. It was such a non-sequitur it's practically trolling. The question was: would you be ok with a database of suspected muslim extremists being given to any group, in the hopes that they will incite violence against them?

Big brain response:

"yOu SHouLD RepoRT To police"...

Oh and this one's my favorite:

Now it's pretty obvious you're still going to defend these actions for ideological reasons, but I'm willing to bet you wouldn't be so happy about someone scraping data about muslims and then sending that data to third parties with the hopes of violent retaliation against them.

Because that would involve targeting innocents.

All while previously saying:

Then they can try and clear their name. Where did I argue otherwise?

When asked how would I even know I would need to prove it, you said:

You're not owed that explanation, in the first place, to be utterly frank.

[Forogil]

Computer science professor writes Facebook and Twitter bots that store data about extremists. Uses data to dox them.

That sounds like computer registering of political views of persons, and if a criteria for being a white nationalist is that the person is "white" that is also racial registration.

Political views and race are normally highly sensitive information in terms of GDPR and similar laws, and it seems doubtful if this is legal - regardless of whether it occurs outside of EU (as long as some of the registered persons are EU-citizens) and regardless of whether people actually published the information - as they didn't agree to this processing.

[Machismo]

Muslim Immigration to Europe didn't start till the late 90s and only really picked up after that. So apparently these progressive accepting views didn't start until then either.

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You're really desperate to make my point.

You mean when I poi t out I'm supporting free speech and letting the world know what I believe. Why are you so afraid of telling your employer about your bigotry?

[Endus]

What if I don't like them because they are followers of a hateful ideology, just like Nazism?

Then you're bigoted, because what you just said is hateful bullshit that is not based in fact.

It's like saying "what if I don't hate blacks because they're black, but because they're all criminal subhuman thugs?" You're just describing the bigotry, not making an argument that you aren't bigoted.

Also, muslims are not an ethnoreligious group, since the 1.8b muslim population is comprised of many ethnicities (which have nothing to do with race, google the definition). Jews are an ethnoreligious group, because all 13m belong to the same ethnic and religious group.

Jews aren't a single ethnic group. Askhenazi and Sephardim and Mizrahim, just to hit the major ethnic groups.

Again, just straight-up wrong about basic facts.

Except noone asked about that. It was such a non-sequitur it's practically trolling. The question was: would you be ok with a database of suspected muslim extremists being given to any group, in the hopes that they will incite violence against them?

Went back and checked.

but I'm willing to bet you wouldn't be so happy about someone scraping data about muslims and then sending that data to third parties with the hopes of violent retaliation against them.

No mention of "Muslim extremists" at all. You're lying and moving goalposts.

[Noxx79]

No just tell him you're a bigot, that's whats relevant to my point.

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Yea I forgot you're perfect

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When this massive data dump is released do you think the thousands of people will be individually judged? Or lumped together as "bigots" or "white nationalists". You're literally making my point for me

You don’t have to be perfect to be not racist. That says more about you than anything else.

[Astro420]

No mention of "Muslim extremists" at all. You're lying and moving goalposts.

See:

You probably wouldn't even support it if it were people who are suspected insurgents or allies of ISIS.

If you knew someone was an insurgent and didn't report that to authorities, you're an accessory to their crimes. The only reason I can think you'd make this accusation is if you seriously do not understand what having principles actually means, and to you, it's just partisan attacks on "the enemy".

You literally removed the sentence that followed. A sentence you literally replied to you goddamn retard

[Felya]

What if I don't like them because they are followers of a hateful ideology, just like Nazism?
Also, muslims are not an ethnoreligious group, since the 1.8b muslim population is comprised of many ethnicities (which have nothing to do with race, google the definition). Jews are an ethnoreligious group, because all 13m belong to the same ethnic and religious group.

You use the same logic as nazis... what exactly is hateful about my coworker Mustafa, who drove after work to my house, just to give this Jew some baklava after Ramadan? When nazis called Jews the same thing, were they not nazis? FYI... we don’t run the banks...

[Pannonian]

Muslim Immigration to Europe didn't start till the late 90s and only really picked up after that. So apparently these progressive accepting views didn't start until then either.

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You're really desperate to make my point.

So that's why my country accepted islam as an official faith with the same rights as christianity back in... oh 1890... at least learn history before you make yourself look like a fool.

Even if you ignore the Balkans, which have been muslim for centuries, its still hillarious:

Germany and its foreign workers didn't start in the 90s.

French got its colonies only in the late 90s?

Don't mangle history until it fits your narrative.

[Mormolyce]

I do love the rhetoric juggling of that argument. These people make three claims:

1. Antifa are the real fascists.
2. We are against antifa.
3. 'The fascists of the future will call themselves anti-fascist'.

It's almost as if they are admitting...

I kept asking Cizr if he was left wing, considering he kept claiming the Nazis were left wing and he's a neo-Nazi. Never once replied.

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Also, muslims are not an ethnoreligious group, since the 1.8b muslim population is comprised of many ethnicities (which have nothing to do with race, google the definition). Jews are an ethnoreligious group, because all 13m belong to the same ethnic and religious group.

But in reality, most of this rhetoric about "Muslims" is specifically aimed at Arab Muslims. Despite the fact they only make up 25% of the world's Muslims. You didn't see Trump trying to ban immigration from Indonesia or India.

So while you might be able to claim a technicality here, in practice it's effectively racism.

If you prefer people could use the term "bigotry" which is exactly the same, but not specifically aimed at race. Which is a vaguely defined concept to begin with. Don't know why you think it makes a difference which flavour of bigotry it is.

[Aenigma84]

This is a really foolish line.

People posting publically have a right to privacy?

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Mm so... so the Israelis who were putting together a list of possible nazis and hunting them were the real nazis?

There is a difference considering the Nazi actually did try to whipe them out, where in present day are extreme right trying to genocide any group ?

also the israeli are not a example you wish to follow considering the treatment they used on palestinians would have made the nazi's proud in many aspects


Its a matter of dont turn/don't lower yourself into the thing your trying to opose or your no better then them at best
when you do shit like the op link and the opossition doesnt your even worse, wich is where antifa is now at.

[Themius]

There is a difference considering the Nazi actually did try to whipe them out, where in present day are extreme right trying to genocide any group ?

also the israeli are not a example you wish to follow considering the treatment they used on palestinians would have made the nazi's proud in many aspects


Its a matter of dont turn/don't lower yourself into the thing your trying to opose or your no better then them at best
when you do shit like the op link and the opossition doesnt your even worse, wich is where antifa is now at.

You mean the groups chanting how Jews and brown people won’t replace them and have times to a umber of race based mass killings? THeyre In support of genocide that’s for certain.

[DKjaigen]

Well this is going to end well for her. Better hope she didnt use any university resources otherwise they can sue Elon university to the ground.

[Machismo]

Well this is going to end well for her. Better hope she didnt use any university resources otherwise they can sue Elon university to the ground.

Why can they sue them into the ground? What laws is she actually breaking?

[Ihavewaffles]

Computer science professor writes Facebook and Twitter bots that store data about extremists. Uses data to dox them.

Do you approve of Prof. Squire's tactics?

Are u saying storing information about civilians for political reasons by a civilian far-leaning person is legal in your country? If so, u allow civilians to commit vigilantism.

[Knolan]

Do you own a business?

What would you do if an employee of yours was photographed burning the American flag by the news during a demonstration and he was recognized at work and you lost business because of it?

Assuming it is an overall competent employee, probably put him to work with clients that won't mind / do something about it.

If you would fire any possibly controversial behavior, you would allow zero "controversial" activity outside the work.
What if your employee is a green peace activist? What if he/she is a LGBTQ+ activist? What if he/she is an antifa member?
A lot of controversy arises from the way people raise their kids too, so, would you not hire an anti vaxer as well?

The more you give in, the more you will enter in a purity spiral that will only end badly.

[Bodakane]

Assuming it is an overall competent employee, probably put him to work with clients that won't mind / do something about it.

If you would fire any possibly controversial behavior, you would allow zero "controversial" activity outside the work.
What if your employee is a green peace activist? What if he/she is a LGBTQ+ activist? What if he/she is an antifa member?
A lot of controversy arises from the way people raise their kids too, so, would you not hire an anti vaxer as well?

The more you give in, the more you will enter in a purity spiral that will only end badly.

Its like, down to a person, everyone on your side cannot read or something.
HINT: Read the last 7 words from the post you quoted.

This is NOT about random controversial behavior, this about controversial behavior that costs your business money.

Now, if you understand that a business can lose money because of an employees behavior, then you should also understand that business being proactive about protecting their reputation.

OR

You you want the government to come in and force a place of business to keep employees that cost them money through their behavior\

OR

You want the government to come in and force consumers to use certain businesses.


Those are your only 3 choices.

[Knolan]

Its like, down to a person, everyone on your side cannot read or something.
HINT: Read the last 7 words from the post you quoted.

This is NOT about random controversial behavior, this about controversial behavior that costs your business money.

Now, if you understand that a business can lose money because of an employees behavior, then you should also understand that business being proactive about protecting their reputation.

OR

You you want the government to come in and force a place of business to keep employees that cost them money through their behavior\

OR

You want the government to come in and force consumers to use certain businesses.


Those are your only 3 choices.

I understand perfectly that the business lost money on this case.
That being said, firing someone, specially someone competent will also cost you money and morale. Also, firing the person won't bring the money back, so I don't really see the benefit, unless none of your clients is willing to work with the said person.

What it appears that you are suggesting, and correct me if I am wrong, is that you pro actively fire people that may create a controversy that may negatively impact your business. If that is the case, that is exactly what I am against in my former post.

[Endus]

I understand perfectly that the business lost money on this case.
That being said, firing someone, specially someone competent will also cost you money and morale. Also, firing the person won't bring the money back, so I don't really see the benefit, unless none of your clients is willing to work with the said person.

What it appears that you are suggesting, and correct me if I am wrong, is that you pro actively fire people that may create a controversy that may negatively impact your business. If that is the case, that is exactly what I am against in my former post.

Not firing the racist hurts morale. Firing them improves it. Unless all your staff are racists.

Also, clients generally don't want to work with companies that support and employ racists, and "we won't have them work on your file" isn't remotely enough.

Being racist is a massive ethical and character flaw that provides legitimate cause to fire an employee. Canada, for instance, does not have at-will employment; you need just cause to let someone go. And "they're racist" is just cause. A fairly serious, cut-and-dry, obvious case of just cause, like being caught defrauding a client would be. This isn't specific to any particular set of laws; this is pretty much an international standard.

[Rennadrel]

I kept asking Cizr if he was left wing, considering he kept claiming the Nazis were left wing and he's a neo-Nazi. Never once replied.

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But in reality, most of this rhetoric about "Muslims" is specifically aimed at Arab Muslims. Despite the fact they only make up 25% of the world's Muslims. You didn't see Trump trying to ban immigration from Indonesia or India.

So while you might be able to claim a technicality here, in practice it's effectively racism.

If you prefer people could use the term "bigotry" which is exactly the same, but not specifically aimed at race. Which is a vaguely defined concept to begin with. Don't know why you think it makes a difference which flavour of bigotry it is.

Most Islamic extremism comes from the Middle East, which makes sense since the nations that are ruled by Islamic fundamentalist law like Iran and Saudi Arabia are also the nations with the most money pushing the ideology both religiously and socially in the region. Iran in particular was a secular and progressive society before being taken over by Islamic law. Now they back extremists like the Taliban, Al-Qaeda and ISIS just like the Saudi's do with their oil money. Anecdotal, but some Muslim friends and colleagues of mine who hail from other parts of the world are some of the most liberal people I know.

I think it's irrational to hate them, but I guess it's no surprise when all some people focus on is the fear mongering coming from outlets like Fox News and Alex Jones spreading a bunch of lies about people that are nothing but blatant generalizations and half truths.