layering = realm hopping on WOW BETA abuse

[Alkizon]

'Hopping' was not the important word here. Realm was. It makes a HELL of a lot of difference whether you go from realm to realm (effectively killing community, as in retail) or from layer to layer (abuse, but at least within the same community). Nothing to do with semantics. My point is, that with the great community on Classic and the damage to your reputation when you abuse stuff, why does anyone worry about it? Maybe because abusing mechanics won't have an impact on rep at all? So there won't be a better community then on retail?

No, it's about parallel pieces with different people being there: in the same part of "closed/solid" world, all together, at the same time... realm/server/shard/layer/phase are conditional concepts, but group of people available for interaction at any time at the same place "without hopping", need to get along/cohabit with them "without hopping" is what it is. Which follows that... what? That "hopping" is a key word.

It's not about abusing, but about how to deal with it without devs' "disservice"... together, as community, but not like herd of solo superheroes with each is pulling blanket to himself, until it's torn at seams, repeat infinitely number of times = realms/servers/shards/layers/phases/whatever.

You don't even trying, as I can see, it's very weak, dude

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Its fixed. There is even twitter post from blizzard employee about this.

It's not, just small condition "to be taken into account" being added, that's all.

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Your texts are really hard to understand, so I have no idea what you mean and can't give a proper answer. Also, why do you link random words to random posts?

You're not the first who trying to play this card, but for some reason there are always people who understand everything correctly, and in this specific case I have right to believe that everything is normal and understandable there: no hopping = working retaliation mechanism, exists hopping = no such mechanism. Lets assume that you simply have nothing to answer. Dodge attempt not counted

You're still on the same realm, same people, same guilds

but on another layer, what makes statement about "same people" wrong, which automatically makes them partially inaccessible, and therefore opens possibility of switching between "existing" set and "alternative", which immediately negates need for cohabitation and adaptation. At the same time, it additionally creates flexible barriers, and hence the desire to overcome them. Accessible (albeit with difficulties) conditions always create basis for desires and their realization, and if there is no possibility, then there will be no desire, and therefore no attempt in this direction and even more - no need in additional “crutches”. Simple.

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The best temporary solution to abusing this system is for them to make it so you all need to be in a rest area/city before it pulls you over to their layer. It would reduce the ability to abuse it because you would not phase into their layer unless the group leader and everyone meet at the same rest location. This solution is not perfect and very clunky but it would clear a lot of this up.

This limits ability, but doesn't cancel it, moreover creates difficulties for "legal" necessities (this has been discussed repeatedly in official forums already). Better not to have it at all. I repeat: no possibility - no desire to use it, adaptation is activated.

<<BACK|FORWARD>>

[Annelie]

You can't jump from realm to realm, it's layer hopping.

In practice it is the same thing.

[Miena]

Where are you getting this idea that layers are dynamic and meant to change with every session? Because that was never implied by the devs when they essentially said the opposite and that each layer is meant to feel like it own realm with a consistent community, so you’re seeing the same players throughout while layering still exists.

And to the rest of the doomsayers about exploits and whatever the hell, layering is a measure to handle the initial surge when you’re gonna have 10000 players squeezed between 6 starting zones and then squeezing all those players into barrens/westfall/stonetalon/redridge all at once. Phase 2 brings world bosses and much thinner spread population and will lose layering with it

"Doomsayer" huh?

Before you throw those silly labels around to try to discredit valid criticism and concern, i'd suggest to make sure you are 100% certain that you've got it all figured out.

Because if you just listen closely to Omar explaining layering, you'll see you're just embarrassing yourself right now with these pompous accusations and your clear lack of an informed opinion:

https://youtu.be/O3b423uqrdo?t=240

In case you didn't care to watch the video, he confirms:

Layers are dynamically scaling to demand
Layers are continent wide
Layers are assigned per play session (logging in and out), instead of permanently assigned upon character creation
Layering still will have you face a full server worth of people fighting it out in the starting zones as each layer contains one whole vanilla realms population

Upsie. I guess you heard what you wanted to hear, just like most people seem to when it comes to layering. Unfortunately the reality looks very different, as i've had to see for myself in the stress test before realizing it too.
At this point i'm certain that the only moment people will actually will learn what layering is all about, how it works, and what it does or rather.. DOESN'T do, is going to arrive when they log in at Day 1, and see it in action themselves. And then, i hope Blizzard CM will be ready, because this is gonna become PR shitstorm that will leave it's mark in WoW history, and hurt Blizzards reputation even further, because people right now for the most part don't even know what they're gonna get with layering.

Just take the feedback from the last stress test, and look at the main issues people had when they were playing (with layering on, mind you).
"Omg too many people, i cant collect wolf ass! I can't quest! This takes too long aah" etc.
These are things that will happen at launch just as well, cause layering is meant to adress shortterm server health only, and the only way to make it work for questing etc is by exploiting the way it works to your advantage.

Which why those in the know about layering are gonna abuse the crap out of it by layer hopping to avoid competition and level faster from DAY 1, which incentivices speed leveling at the cost of your own experience, because layering is supposedly temporary. As always, the word how to do this will spread very quickly, and put on pressure for people to also try level faster, because as long as layering is gonna be here, they have the chance to do so..

Players will find out about it... eventually. And by then it will be too late, and the damage is done.
First impressions are paramount here: Blizzard's playing with fire, and those supporting layering are fine with screwing over their own player experience like it is their duty to deal with Blizzards tech issues, all just to fix 1 perceived server health issue they have, at the cost of everyone elses experience who just wants to play Classic.
It's not even like every server is going to be in danger of becoming low pop.. it will again just be a minority, that never before had enough of an impact to prevent any success of the game at all, or reduce it's popularity. It was regardless a massive success.
But hey, i'm not gonna stop you from bending over to Blizzard and let them fool you thinking you'll get Vanilla, THE GAME, not an REENACTMENT of 2004, on the 27th August.
Good luck. I'm gonna wait until their game breaking tool is out of the game.

[YourGamingDude]

Its fixed. There is even twitter post from blizzard employee about this.

[mitre27]

Layering should be done for a few weeks and only in the first 2 zones for each race, so durotar and barrens for example, that way there's no pvp to avoid by phasing out, and there's no valuable resources to abuse by jumping layers.

[Amerissis]

No, it's about parallel pieces with different people being there: in the same part of "closed/solid" world, all together, at the same time... realm/server/shard/layer/phase are conditional concepts, but group of people available for interaction at any time at the same place "without hopping", need to get along/cohabit with them "without hopping" is what it is. Which follows that... what? That "hopping" is a key word.

It's not about abusing, but about how to deal with it without devs' "disservice"... together, as community, but not like herd of solo superheroes with each is pulling blanket to himself, until it's torn at seams, repeat infinitely number of times = realms/servers/shards/layers/phases/whatever.

You don't even trying, as I can see, it's very weak, dude

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It's not, just small condition "to be taken into account" being added, that's all.

<<BACK

Your texts are really hard to understand, so I have no idea what you mean and can't give a proper answer. Also, why do you link random words to random posts?

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In practice it is the same thing.

How? You're still on the same realm, same people, same guilds, aren't you? So in this wonderful world of perfect community Classic, you'd never get a group, because everyone on your realm would know your bad rep and exclude you.

[Bhanzai]

Which why those in the know about layering are gonna abuse the crap out of it by layer hopping to avoid competition and level faster from DAY 1, which incentivices speed leveling at the cost of your own experience, because layering is supposedly temporary. As always, the word how to do this will spread very quickly, and put on pressure for people to also try level faster, because as long as layering is gonna be here, they have the chance to do so..

So let me get this right. I can't do quests on my layer because there is too much competition but for some reason I will magically find somebody on another layer who is kind enough to invite me to their private layer that is empty and then I will have no competition and will level faster from day 1. I hope that you are smart enough to see that your logic is full of shit right?

People will be constantly logging in and out of the game so layers will be in continuous flux. People will be constantly getting into and out of groups so layers will be in continuous flux. People will be constantly zoning into and out of instances so layers will be in continuous flux.

Layering is hardly a game breaking tool. The only tools around here are drama queens.

[Unholyground]

The best temporary solution to abusing this system is for them to make it so you all need to be in a rest area/city before it pulls you over to their layer. It would reduce the ability to abuse it because you would not phase into their layer unless the group leader and everyone meet at the same rest location. This solution is not perfect and very clunky but it would clear a lot of this up.

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No, it's about parallel pieces with different people being there: in the same part of "closed/solid" world, all together, at the same time... realm/server/shard/layer/phase are conditional concepts, but group of people available for interaction at any time at the same place "without hopping", need to get along/cohabit with them "without hopping" is what it is. Which follows that... what? That "hopping" is a key word.

It's not about abusing, but about how to deal with it without devs' "disservice"... together, as community, but not like herd of solo superheroes with each is pulling blanket to himself, until it's torn at seams, repeat infinitely number of times = realms/servers/shards/layers/phases/whatever.

You don't even trying, as I can see, it's very weak, dude

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It's not, just small condition "to be taken into account" being added, that's all.

- - - Updated - - -

You're not the first who trying to play this card, but for some reason there are always people who understand everything correctly, and in this specific case I have right to believe that everything is normal and understandable there: no hopping = working retaliation mechanism, exists hopping = no such mechanism. Lets assume that you simply have nothing to answer. Dodge attempt not counted
but on another layer, what makes statement about "same people" wrong, which automatically makes them partially inaccessible, and therefore opens possibility of switching between "existing" set and "alternative", which immediately negates need for cohabitation and adaptation. At the same time, it additionally creates flexible barriers, and hence the desire to overcome them. Accessible (albeit with difficulties) conditions always create basis for desires and their realization, and if there is no possibility, then there will be no desire, and therefore no attempt in this direction and even more - no need in additional “crutches”. Simple.

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This limits ability, but doesn't cancel it, moreover creates difficulties for "legal" necessities (this has been discussed repeatedly in official forums already). Better not to have it at all. I repeat: no possibility - no desire to use it, adaptation is activated.

<<BACK

If they do that and get rid of it altogether then they have to use a form of dynamic spawning but have it connected to mob clusters so they only start re spawning when all mobs of a cluster are killed.

The original launch of WoW was not as insane as this time around, the mass numbers will be far larger in the beginning weeks.

[Alkizon]

Unholyground
The best temporary solution to abusing this system is for them to make it so you all need to be in a rest area/city before it pulls you over to their layer. It would reduce the ability to abuse it because you would not phase into their layer unless the group leader and everyone meet at the same rest location. This solution is not perfect and very clunky but it would clear a lot of this up.

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If they do that and get rid of it altogether then they have to use a form of dynamic spawning but have it connected to mob clusters so they only start re spawning when all mobs of a cluster are killed.

The original launch of WoW was not as insane as this time around, the mass numbers will be far larger in the beginning weeks.

And I suggested another thing (oldest stuff here, reference to source of original idea, which was made before Classic being announced, since revision also isn't mine, but friends'). Let in people in portions so people absorb content in batches. Let there be layers, but "with insurmountable boundaries" and with account binding to them. 500 people per layer at the start immediately without checking for faction (snapping occurs during first character entry into the game; new layer is created automatically in necessity, in the form of large queue, and on the same rules as existing ones), someone logoff after couple of hours, layer continues (after short pause/wait) to be filled with accounts already taking into account faction (albeit with small allowable gap, again by "first character entry", until reaching 1000 accounts binding). There won't be particular crush with such numbers (most people will already move to next zones), tension will be within acceptable limits - no need in dynamic spawning. All layers have united "names' set". Layers are assembled into servers after fairly short period (week or two, depending on fullness and fractions' balance), and servers' boundaries will be closed after some additional perturbations ("on request" and "with permission", with breaking names' list base). No "crutches" and no game's rules/conditions violation.

All numbers aren't "full-metal", but suggested "by eye", so debatable. Process can be monitored by "operators" if desired or necessary at any of proposed stages (especially at the stage of creating new layers, it shouldn't abuse "virtual" space, some queues haven't killed anyone yet).

As for "dead" servers:

ps. And, by the way, about "few weeks", so far this is only an opinion too. No one knows about accurate/precise duration. Servers can settle down from 2 weeks to year(s), and one way or another they will probably have to end up “connecting” them, and no sort of layering will save devs from this... unless they'll stay there forever

Something like this, but it's in general, without details.

ps. For reference, in contrast to devs (well, or their statements), I don't think that starting tourists' influx will be so huge. I don't consider "by default" people as idiots, and I believe in their conscious and meaningful decisions.

<<BACK AFTERMATH>>

[Annelie]

How? You're still on the same realm, same people, same guilds, aren't you? So in this wonderful world of perfect community Classic, you'd never get a group, because everyone on your realm would know your bad rep and exclude you.

I dont even.

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Its fixed. There is even twitter post from blizzard employee about this.

You got a link? I could not find it.