Meet antifa's secret weapon against far-right extremists

[DKjaigen]

Unlike witches, racists actually exist.

Kudos on taking the side of racists without any apology, though.

Again, why is it everyone else's fault for noticing and hating the racist, and none of it the racist's fault for choosing to be an abusive shitheaded dicknugget of a human being?

This is Western humanism.

You are a bunch of spiteful idealogical crusaders and yet you dare to claim to know western humanism? dont make me laugh. The very foundation humanism is freedom of speech . Including the speech you don't like. And trust me i don't like those nazi shitheads . But your people are just as great a problem. Fortunately you are a temporary problem . Your worthless left wing group will be dying out anyway within in next 2 decades and your ideas reduced to fringe . Its just so painfull to see that you dont even know that Trump will win because you act like bunch of thugs.

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Great, tell the world I'm a small-government capitalist who hates racists. If you want to alienate me, be my guest.

Sure. you are standing their with a smug grin daring me to do so. Knowing that i would never stoop to your low level. I wonder if you talked so smugly if there where consequences to immoral BS you are pulling. likely not , you dont sound like person with much integrity or stoicism.

[Felya]

You are a bunch of spiteful idealogical crusaders and yet you dare to claim to know western humanism? dont make me laugh. The very foundation humanism is freedom of speech . Including the speech you don't like. And trust me i don't like those nazi shitheads . But your people are just as great a problem. Fortunately you are a temporary problem . Your worthless left wing group will be dying out anyway within in next 2 decades and your ideas reduced to fringe . Its just so painfull to see that you dont even know that Trump will win because you act like bunch of thugs.

Ednus is not a group... I’m not sure who his people are... judging by his avatar... is it demons?

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Sure. you are standing their with a smug grin daring me to do so. Knowing that i would never stoop to your low level. I wonder if you talked so smugly if there where consequences to immoral BS you are pulling. likely not , you dont sound like person with much integrity or stoicism.

What immoral BS is he pulling?

[Edge-]

The very foundation humanism is freedom of speech .

By what definition? - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanism

The only mention of freedom of speech there is related to how free speech in the Islamic world during the Middle Ages contributed to the pursuit of knowledge at the time.

But your people are just as great a problem.

How many times have people against Nazi's and against allowing Nazi's to engage in hateful rhetoric killed people? How many times have they engaged in attempted genocide?

[Endus]

You are a bunch of spiteful idealogical crusaders and yet you dare to claim to know western humanism?

Curious as to who the "you" is, here, since I, myself, am not "a bunch", so clearly you're lumping me in with some other group.

And yes; I'm highly familiar with Western humanist philosophy and ethics.

dont make me laugh. The very foundation humanism is freedom of speech . Including the speech you don't like.

Including the right to say "hey, look, those guys are Nazi shitheads. Hey, you, boss-person, your employees are Nazis. Look at all this evidence of them being Nazis."

That's free speech too. People like yourself are the ones arguing against civil rights and freedoms, not I.

Also, Western humanism is a hell of a lot broader than civil rights and freedoms. Which, just so we're clear, are a left-wing concept from the beginning. Humanism itself tends to trend mostly left-wing. These comments made in light of the following bit;

And trust me i don't like those nazi shitheads . But your people are just as great a problem. Fortunately you are a temporary problem . Your worthless left wing group will be dying out anyway within in next 2 decades and your ideas reduced to fringe . Its just so painfull to see that you dont even know that Trump will win because you act like bunch of thugs.

Unless you think Trump is going to invade Canada, Trump is utterly fucking meaningless to me and my freedoms, dude. My location's right there in the tab and I'm super open about it.

Also, I find the idea that left-wing views will "die out" in 20 years to be absolutely fucking laughable, when the last 200 years or so have been pretty steady movement towards the left, over time. That trend has not in any way changed, recently. In fact, most of the complaints people like yourself make, in issues like this one right here, it's because you are losing the culture war, over and over, every time the battle lines get drawn.

[Felya]

How many times have people against Nazi's and against allowing Nazi's to engage in hateful rhetoric killed people? How many times have they engaged in attempted genocide?

If you ignore history prior to 1945, I can make an argument that Stalinism would fit this criteria. But, fascism without going after the a group, is just Stalinism. His genocide wasn’t solely based on undesirable, but was part of his attempts to stump out the opposition. Fascism vs Stalin’s version of communism, is very similar. If intent isn’t taken into account, the two are pretty close to being interchangeable. That’s one of the ironies of Trumpservative, their hate of the projected ideal of communism in Stalinism, is not easy to distinguish from their acceptance of fascism.

Edit: Hey @Endus... I know this isn’t the most solid argument... but... How difficult would it be for you to prove you are not a fascist? I think for me it would be extremely easy... in fact, I’m fairly sure that due to my circumstances, I could sue for harassment.

[Edge-]

If you ignore history prior to 1945, I can make an argument that Stalinism would fit this criteria. But, fascism without going after the a group, is just Stalinism. His genocide wasn’t solely based on undesirable, but was part of his attempts to stump out the opposition. Fascism vs Stalin’s version of communism, is very similar. If intent isn’t taken into account, the two are pretty close to being interchangeable. That’s one of the ironies of Trumpservative, their hate of the projected ideal of communism in Stalinism, is not easy to distinguish from their acceptance of fascism.

Except his platform wasn't, "Nazi's suck!", that was just a resulting factor of Hitler declaring war on Russia (who they had a peace treaty with prior). I was hoping nobody would bring up Stalin, because it's completely irrelevant to the topic. We're not talking about fascist communists, we're talking about people who think that hate-groups like Nazi's shouldn't have protections for engaging in hateful, racist rhetoric given that one of the core tenants of the ideology is the genocide of various groups they dislike.

[Endus]

Edit: Hey @Endus... I know this isn’t the most solid argument... but... How difficult would it be for you to prove you are not a fascist? I think for me it would be extremely easy... in fact, I’m fairly sure that due to my circumstances, I could sue for harassment.

Are we talking legally, or philosophically? Because at the philosophical level, if I want to be a shit, I could go full-on nihilist on you and point out that it's fundamentally impossible to concretely "prove" anything beyond the maxim "I exist". And maybe mathematics, if we accept that the "I" thinking about mathematics is not insane and can grasp logic properly. But that might be an unprovable maxim, hence "maybe".

At the legal level, you'd first have to make a reasonable, evidence-based argument that I am a fascist, before I'd be expected to prove otherwise. And frankly, I don't think you could. And my counter would almost certainly be to attack the necessary misrepresentations of fact you used to make that argument, rather than making a separate one.

Largely because proving a negative is not logically possible (though functionally, for civil case purposes, doable in practice).

[Felya]

Except his platform wasn't, "Nazi's suck!", that was just a resulting factor of Hitler declaring war on Russia (who they had a peace treaty with prior). I was hoping nobody would bring up Stalin, because it's completely irrelevant to the topic. We're not talking about fascist communists, we're talking about people who think that hate-groups like Nazi's shouldn't have protections for engaging in hateful, racist rhetoric given that one of the core tenants of the ideology is the genocide of various groups they dislike.

Yeah, you are absolutely right. That’s why I said after 1945. I can make the case, based on Russian propoganda in post 1945 world, that he did push anti-fascist rhetoric. If you think US takes credit for WW2 due to D-Day... it got nothing on USSR. But, if you take what happened prior to 1945, specifically around the signing of none intervention pact with Hitler, the iron curtain becomes clear justification in promoting anti-fascist rhetoric. Stalin wasn’t anti-fascist, he wanted an iron curtain between USSR and the west. Hitler was simply one of many westerners that attacked Russia from the west, thus justifying an iron curtain. It’s how he got half of Germany... this was part of USSR’s argument.

Edit: It’s why I don’t get Poland. Their history with Russia, justifies a lot more hostility, than anything in Middle East. They were a buffer... the ‘send in the darkies’ of USSR... the expectation was for them to be destroyed by the next invasion, to protect Russia.

Edit 2: The most important thing to remember when talking about Stalin... he was a paranoid, with a short man complex. It’s ‘everyone is a threat’ to the power of ‘everyone is a threat’.

[Machismo]

You are a bunch of spiteful idealogical crusaders and yet you dare to claim to know western humanism? dont make me laugh. The very foundation humanism is freedom of speech . Including the speech you don't like. And trust me i don't like those nazi shitheads . But your people are just as great a problem. Fortunately you are a temporary problem . Your worthless left wing group will be dying out anyway within in next 2 decades and your ideas reduced to fringe . Its just so painfull to see that you dont even know that Trump will win because you act like bunch of thugs.

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Sure. you are standing their with a smug grin daring me to do so. Knowing that i would never stoop to your low level. I wonder if you talked so smugly if there where consequences to immoral BS you are pulling. likely not , you dont sound like person with much integrity or stoicism.

No, I really do want you to rant to the world that I'm a capitalist who hates racists. You want to talk about morals, all you seem to want to do, is whine that people are being mean to racists. Why do you insist on defending racist trash all the time?

Oh, and she is exercising freedom of speech. Let us know when you realize that you are the one opposing freedom of speech. And yes, that even means speech you don't like. I love when you guys keep arguing against yourselves.

So, are you going to be voting for Trump? My guess is, you are not even an American, are you? As for Endus, he's a Canadian.

[Bodakane]

Not one Trump supporter in this thread has said a single negative thing about racists.

[Machismo]

Not one Trump supporter in this thread has said a single negative thing about racists.

I have been compared to being a Nazi, because I don't like racists and white nationalists. Yes, the very Trumpster who refuses to condemn racism and white nationalism, called me a Nazi for supporting free speech and opposing racists.

[Felya]

Are we talking legally, or philosophically? Because at the philosophical level, if I want to be a shit, I could go full-on nihilist on you and point out that it's fundamentally impossible to concretely "prove" anything beyond the maxim "I exist". And maybe mathematics, if we accept that the "I" thinking about mathematics is not insane and can grasp logic properly. But that might be an unprovable maxim, hence "maybe".

I mean in the sense of... here is a pile of out of context posts you made. You are now set to prove to your employer and your online community, that you are not racist. I’m trying to get at the idea, that someone who isn’t racist, can put his racist comments in context. I got infracted twice, for acting like a demented Trump supporter. If someone sent my employer those two posts and me sharing 2 Milo and Rubin report videos on Facebook... I think it would be very easy... because I have around 60k posts around the internet... 60k > 4...

At the legal level, you'd first have to make a reasonable, evidence-based argument that I am a fascist, before I'd be expected to prove otherwise. And frankly, I don't think you could. And my counter would almost certainly be to attack the necessary misrepresentations of fact you used to make that argument, rather than making a separate one.

To be clear, there are no legal issues... and am fine with that...

Largely because proving a negative is not logically possible (though functionally, for civil case purposes, doable in practice).

I can think of around 58k ways to counter said accusation.

Edit: shit... I am not a satanist... god damn it... It’s just a joke!!! I am not a satanist...

[breslin]

So that's why my country accepted islam as an official faith with the same rights as christianity back in... oh 1890... at least learn history before you make yourself look like a fool.

Even if you ignore the Balkans, which have been muslim for centuries, its still hillarious:

Germany and its foreign workers didn't start in the 90s.

French got its colonies only in the late 90s?

Don't mangle history until it fits your narrative.

The Balkans have been a source of war until very recently, even if you place that blame solely on the Christian European people it still doesn't bode well for claiming that people were coexisting.

Germany was 2 countries and while they did have a labor shortage it wasn't filled with Muslims

French Colonies arent in Europe, and Algerians aren't like say Puerto Ricans in which they are French Citizens.

Learn history and basic civics before you try to act smart with someone

[Pannonian]

The Balkans have been a source of war until very recently, even if you place that blame solely on the Christian European people it still doesn't bode well for claiming that people were coexisting.

Germany was 2 countries and while they did have a labor shortage it wasn't filled with Muslims

French Colonies arent in Europe, and Algerians aren't like say Puerto Ricans in which they are French Citizens.

Learn history and basic civics before you try to act smart with someone

So, what in your post refutes my claim that moslems have been living in europe far earlier than the late 90s? Because your goalpost moving doesn't refute anything.


Edit: Instead of just claiming, here let me show you something, if you're still thinking your hillarious claim is true, refute it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Slavs - Moslems in the balkans (how does "war" refute that? btw. we talk about a period where the whole of Europe was in constant war)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Austria - for my own country - there were so many moslems that in 1912 a law was passed making it a recognized religion - only 80 years before the late 90s

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Germany - Germany: Turkey 61 and marrocco 62 - only 40 years before the late 90s. This is especially hilarious, because if you listen to right wing germans they will claim this contract to be the root of all evil.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algerians_in_France started in... the 20s - and everyone born in france is french citizen (even if it doesn't matter, because your claim was that there were no moslims in europe, not citizens)

So... want another try for your silly "late 90s" claim?

[DKjaigen]

Including the right to say "hey, look, those guys are Nazi shitheads. Hey, you, boss-person, your employees are Nazis. Look at all this evidence of them being Nazis."

That's free speech too. People like yourself are the ones arguing against civil rights and freedoms, not I.

You utterly disgust me. Yes this is freedom of speech but you have deliberately used it as a weapon. Freedom of speech is meant as a tool improve the lives . It shows to me that you understand the rules that humanism has invented but not the logic or morals behind it. That is the hallmark of a sociopath

Also, I find the idea that left-wing views will "die out" in 20 years to be absolutely fucking laughable, when the last 200 years or so have been pretty steady movement towards the left, over time. That trend has not in any way changed, recently. In fact, most of the complaints people like yourself make, in issues like this one right here, it's because you are losing the culture war, over and over, every time the battle lines get drawn.

I said YOUR left wing because i , as a social democrat, don't want to be associated with your ideological BS . The collapse of the regressive left cannot happen soon enough.

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No, I really do want you to rant to the world that I'm a capitalist who hates racists. You want to talk about morals, all you seem to want to do, is whine that people are being mean to racists. Why do you insist on defending racist trash all the time?

Oh, and she is exercising freedom of speech. Let us know when you realize that you are the one opposing freedom of speech. And yes, that even means speech you don't like. I love when you guys keep arguing against yourselves.

So, are you going to be voting for Trump? My guess is, you are not even an American, are you? As for Endus, he's a Canadian.

And once again you cowardly hide behind your ridiculous justifications . Nazi´s are shit but that doesnt give you the moral right to do something like this against them.
And if you do you really are messed up.

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How many times have people against Nazi's and against allowing Nazi's to engage in hateful rhetoric killed people? How many times have they engaged in attempted genocide?

Does it matter? We have the justice system to deal with them. And i trust the justice system a lot more then you . Do you think you are fighting the good fight when you get a Nazi fired? well bravo well done you are so awesome.


Infracted.

[Freighter]

Does it matter? We have the justice system to deal with them. And i trust the justice system a lot more then you . Do you think you are fighting the good fight when you get a Nazi fired? well bravo well done you are so awesome.

So, violent extremists preaching genocide against minorities - no problem. Firing someone for preaching genocide - huge problem?

Violent extremists should be locked up, not be excused or catered to.

[Machismo]

You utterly disgust me. Yes this is freedom of speech but you have deliberately used it as a weapon. Freedom of speech is meant as a tool improve the lives . It shows to me that you understand the rules that humanism has invented but not the logic or morals behind it. That is the hallmark of a sociopath




I said YOUR left wing because i , as a social democrat, don't want to be associated with your ideological BS . The collapse of the regressive left cannot happen soon enough.

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And once again you cowardly hide behind your ridiculous justifications . Nazi´s are shit but that doesnt give you the moral right to do something like this against them.
And if you do you really are messed up.

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Does it matter? We have the justice system to deal with them. And i trust the justice system a lot more then you . Do you think you are fighting the good fight when you get a Nazi fired? well bravo well done you are so awesome.

You mean repeat what they said to others?

Nazi: "I hate Jews, black people, and I want them to all go away."

Me: "Hey, that dude just said he hates black people and Jews, and wants them to all go away."

You: "How dare you attack the poor Nazi like that, you immoral scumbag."

[TEHPALLYTANK]

Does it matter? We have the justice system to deal with them. And i trust the justice system a lot more then you . Do you think you are fighting the good fight when you get a Nazi fired? well bravo well done you are so awesome.

The justice system doesn't exist to deal with racist assholes, it exists to deal with people being criminals. Societal consequences are what we use to deal with racist assholes. If you don't want to be fired for being a racist asshole, don't be a racist asshole.

[Theodarzna]

Computer science professor writes Facebook and Twitter bots that store data about extremists. Uses data to dox them.

Do you approve of Prof. Squire's tactics?

Given the average Lefty, activist considers anyone to the Right of Mao and Stalin to be Nazi's; I have to laugh at this.

[Machismo]

Given the average Lefty, activist considers anyone to the Right of Mao and Stalin to be Nazi's; I have to laugh at this.

And yet, she has evidence to back her claims. Feel free to doubt it all you like, you have a history of trying to deflect for racists.

Maybe people who support apartheid and ethnic cleansing aren't the best barometers to judge what is, and is not racism.