“Tell your King,he is not alone" What this means?

[Biomega]

yeah so, he do that, die, and the horde blow appart, what honor in be dumb like that?

no its not, there is nothing saying you need to be honorable and die in a retarded way dismissing your only change to save countless of lives against people who will fight dishonorable and unfair

thats being too egocentric and retarded.

there is no honor in fight like that.

You really don't know what honor means, huh.

It's not about being rational, or efficient, or about utilitarianism. Quite the opposite. Being honorable is often deliberately worsening your chances of winning - because that's not what's important when you're being honorable.

If all you wanted to do is win, you'd resort to every underhanded tactic in the book. You'd win more fights; but it wouldn't be HONORABLE.

And that's the whole point here.

Going all foh honnaahhh on Sylvanas and then sneaking around behind her back sabotaging and conspiring is NOT honorable. It's an efficient way to usurp her power, to be sure - if that's your goal, by all means. But don't pretend it's about honor when you're not acting honorably.

Nobody said being honorable is a particularly smart thing, in terms of achieving victory. Those who care about honor care about HOW you achieve victory, and would rather suffer honorable defeat than dishonorable victory.

[gd8]

That three traitors will fight against the Horde.

these people's "loyalty" to sylvanas really illustrates just how much people love boot licking any kind of authority figure for no reason whatsoever even in a stupid video game

[Alex86el]

It means that the rebels true horde are formally joining the Alliance to fight save the Horde.

There, i fixed it.

these people's "loyalty" to sylvanas really illustrates just how much people love boot licking any kind of authority figure for no reason whatsoever even in a stupid video game

No reason?

But she looks SO COOL! (charisma matters)
And she is SUCH A BADASS! (so i better lick her boot, maybe i'll get some scraps)
And she has been through SO MUCH PAIN! (so it's ok that she's evil)
And she is SO EDGY! (so i totally relate)

Plus.. liking humans and other supposed good guys?
Please, what am i, some softie? or normie?

On a serious note tho... Some people just roleplay their character as a loyalist.
It is just a game after all. You can have one character be her pet and another not.

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I still stick by my claim that I'd let Anduin invade my Undercity whenever he wants

I'm not sure he is the ...invading type.

I think one of the reasons Sylvanas would like to kill him, is to raise him as undead...
So she can have two pets, one for each boot.

[UnluckyAmateur]

Sylvanas selfishness beats Thrall and Sadfang "selflessness". And Garrosh patriotism as well.

Sylvanas has done more than the guy who literally freed all the orcs on Azeroth from bondage, founded a new home for them, and played a major part in holding the world together. OK

[Syegfryed]

You really don't know what honor means, huh.

It's not about being rational, or efficient, or about utilitarianism. Quite the opposite. Being honorable is often deliberately worsening your chances of winning - because that's not what's important when you're being honorable.

thats not honor is ego-centrism, sometimes both are united but not all the time

there is different types of honor, there is some "general" honor, but sometimes not, what is honorable of a race is not for the other, there is a individual honor, the honor of your country etc, you will have a hard time putting everything in the same bag.

If all you wanted to do is win, you'd resort to every underhanded tactic in the book. You'd win more fights; but it wouldn't be HONORABLE.

thats not rly how it works, sometimes you don't need to do that to win, sometimes "do everything" or be "too much"pragmatic, is worse.

Going all foh honnaahhh on Sylvanas and then sneaking around behind her back sabotaging and conspiring is NOT honorable.

neither is disonorable, since she don't have honor and mean nothing to her, hardly sabotaging and some conspiring hurt an orc honor or pride, this is not "too low"

if you find Saurfang doing "terrible" crimes,like genocide,torture, and other things, then yeaah

Nobody said being honorable is a particularly smart thing, in terms of achieving victory.

sometimes is smart in terms of achieving victory.

Those who care about honor care about HOW you achieve victory, and would rather suffer honorable defeat than dishonorable victory.

sure but this is not the case, there is not just those 2 choices right now.

[Ophenia]

no its not, there is nothing saying you need to be honorable and die in a retarded way dismissing your only change to save countless of lives against people who will fight dishonorable and unfair

Challenging Sylvanas to Mak'gora, losing while showing Sylvanas cheated and betrayed one of the most sacred Horde ritual would instantly remove the Horde's people loyalty to her. She'd instantly lose Taurens, Orcs and Trolls at least, making her either lose the war if she's stubborn or her Warchief's mantle.

[Ealyssa]

That three traitors will fight against the Horde.

betraying evil is a GOOD thing

[Alex86el]

That is honestly so homophobic. Twinks can be tops you know. Many thirsty daddies out there.

hahahah not sure if you're continuing my joke or not.

If not, you missunderstood me.

I wasnt saying he is gay (which would be fine)
Just saying he doesnt strike me like a guy who would make an advance.
I know many capable men who like a leader type woman.

[styil]

So much popcorn material.

However I am excited to see what transpires in this war campaign. I find it good, just don't like the time gates so much.

Soon it'll be a peace campaign.

[MatthiasVonTzeskagrad]

Sylvanas has done more than the guy who literally freed all the orcs on Azeroth from bondage, founded a new home for them, and played a major part in holding the world together. OK

Ok, I'll rephrase, my bad here.
She does better than they could ever try and do in that same moment.

[Mehrunes]

Saurfang butchered Draenei across a whole planet and burned Stormwind to the gorund, never forget that, he's Horde no matter what. Thrall has killed his fair share of humans too and the cinematic even shows that he's not confident of a lasting peace. Baine is Baine, idk what else to say about him.

The 'false' horde is any horde that's brown-nosing a dead elf that doesn't care about them. Time to bring back orc leadership.

Thrall primarily killed "his fair share of humans" when those humans were mean to other humans while giving zero shits about what they were doing to Orcs. Like when he killed Aedelas only when he learned he killed Taretha. Prior to that, despite Blackmoore being a monster as far as Orcs were concerned, he was trying to make him surrender peacefully. And Saurfang admitted to be an eager god-boiking asset in the very quote that's the topic of this thread. His past is not really relevant here anymore.

But in scholomance(?) dungeon the boss can take that free will away. So a powerful necromancer in the legion can do the same

And yet the Lich King himself was not capable of regaining control over the Forsaken, Ebon Blade or any other undead that broke free from him. So I'm not sure how Legion forging new Frostmournes would have helped them. On top of that, Frostmournes or not, during Legion none of the Dreadlords or other Legion's necromancers achieved what Gandling did with Voss either.

[Syegfryed]

Challenging Sylvanas to Mak'gora, losing while showing Sylvanas cheated and betrayed one of the most sacred Horde ritual would instantly remove the Horde's people loyalty to her.
She'd instantly lose Taurens, Orcs and Trolls at least, making her either lose the war if she's stubborn or her Warchief's mantle.

yes because she would do so much obvious,she would prob send killers in the middle and said it was an alliance attack, come on.

[Mehrunes]

you mean more losses, and the imminent colapse? making deals with beings like n'zoth and ashara?

except nothing much change from ashenvale, darkshore is a mess of blight, teldrassil and the resources are lost, and there is attacks even on durotar.

not in any account.

Meanwhile in Cata: Oh look, Garrosh couldn't even win in Ashenvale and most of the Horde's victories over the Alliance had been those of Sylvanas in her Lordaeron campaign. And there were attacks even on Durotar in Cataclysm as well. Your account is shite and constructed only because you can't handle a non-Orc being Warchief, no matter how garbage the Orcs' reign has been in the past.

[Tarba]

Sylvanas betrays life itself. She is not fit to lead the horde. Garrosh was bad, but at least he did what he did for the horde. She only cares about herself.

She put herself directly on the frontline and with a big target on her head to help the horde.
Her original plan could have worked if saurfang didn't had fucked everything for no actual reason. Her second plan would have helped if Baine didn't had killed horde soldiers for no actual reason.

[Mehrunes]

It's funny how when internal bias runs against the obvious.

She was in Stormheim to get her own immortality, stop trying to pretend any less. If she gave a damn about anyone, her own *people* even...she wouldn't have murdered her own people because she was afraid of losing a iota of power.

You talk about bias, yet immediately construct some alternate reality where you can't care about your people (which Sylvanas explicitly does as per her own internal dialogues on multiple occasion, which no amount of your headcanon can change) unless choose not to punish traitors. How is this supposed to work as an argument?

Never mind that by this metric no Alliance leader cares about their own people as well.

[Raven]

This is the Horde, you want to deal with rank and the warchief you do it in Mak’gora.
Working behind the warchiefs back plotting and weakening the Horde is not the Horde way but something cowards/traitors do.

Yeah for Sylvanas that used the blight on her own soldiers would totally follow the rules of Mak´gora, she have proved to many times that honor means nothing to her.

[MatthiasVonTzeskagrad]

yes because she would do so much obvious,she would prob send killers in the middle and said it was an alliance attack, come on.

Being in the middle of Orgrimmar and not trusting Sylvanas, she'd have it hard to do that unnoticed, and if it were known, thats pretty much a cheat, so he wins.

[Seiken3]

I still stick by my claim that I'd let Anduin invade my Undercity whenever he wants

Oh boy! You better have some nice loot going down in your sewers there, missy! Otherwise there will be abomination crawling out sooner than you can say "Sylvana's hatred can't melt Stormwind beams"

[MatthiasVonTzeskagrad]

Yeah for Sylvanas that used the blight on her own soldiers would totally follow the rules of Mak´gora, she have proved to many times that honor means nothing to her.

To her, maybe, but for everyone? What stops any of these guys to show the people how so unfit is Sylvanas to the role of Warchief? She has no korkron, she has nobody who goes on a killing spree because hearing trash talk, according to rebels themselves has the hearts of the horde, why not take that from her?
The problem of your noblesavages is they either fight an already lost battle because their beloved Horde is a murderous hive mind, or are they just a failure to the values their Horde is supposed to represent.

[Casperite]

You do realize that Sylvanas wants to kill everyone and turn them into forsaken right? Hell in the battle for lorderon she used the plague on her own soldiers and raised them. If you actually genuinely believe that horde leaders against this are traitor then you sir are a sylvanas fan boy.

Also find it funny how most Sylvanas fanboys are cata babies , know nothing of lore or what the world was like before the revamp. Sylvanas has always been about using the horde for convenience her goal has always been to make more forsaken no matter the cost.

Why is it such a crime to be a fan of Sylvannas? I like that she is how she is. Most other characters in WoW are cookie cutter fantasy characters that are dull. And no, I didn't start playing wow in cata, started at end of vanilla. Sylvannas has always been the best character in warcraft lore to me.

And her goal to make more forsaken isn't entirely selfish. She cares about her people and doesn't want them to die out as a race.