BfA Patch Speculation thread (8.3 and later).

[Alga]

I agree, even though i really want the Vulpera as an Allied Race, it bothers me the lack of lore for them, the lack of reason for their existance, heck, we don't know much about the Vulpera or the Sethrak and we still know way more of the origin of the Sethrak and their story than the Vulpera, and them joining the Horde, right now, don't make that much sense, unless you see them as joining the Zandalari, and by extension, the Horde.

Also... i always liked the idea of Gilblins, they are a race that makes a lot of sense and even more in this expansion (Naval battles and all that), i hope they end up joining as the 9.0 prepatch race

People in need of having always some wetness around themselves < People living under the driest conditions and being able to generally live everywhere. I dont see Kelfins joing the Horde, since they have no big leader and are just part of the Unshackled, they have nothing in common besides just being freed slaves. IMO they will just go back into the sea after we dealt with Azshara.

[Maxilian]

The lack of potential Alliance ARs is EXACTLY why they keep adding "asspull" races: because besides High Elves and Wildhammer, maaaaybe Broken, there aren't any.

Well we also have the Frost Dwaves (those near Ulduar, in theory they are already part of the Alliance).

And we got the Ankoan and Jinyu.

But is true that the Alliance have less options for Allied Race than the horde. (Heck, with just Trolls and Taurens variations Horde have a lot to choose)

Note: In truth, i think the Alliance have way more options for Allied Race, but that depends on how the AR story is played out, i mean... the LF Draneai and the VE are forces that can shape the Alliance into new paths, i mean.... we could have LF Humans (Even more when we have a LF Human as the head of the LF Draneai), and the VE could see other races follow their teachings (like some NE or Worgens), in general, this is something the Horde doesn't have, none of the actual options for the Horde AR can't "teach" anything to each other.

[EbaumsTipster]

After mentioning the Dark Ranger quest, which still hasn't made it in sine 8.1.5, I really do think this is meant to introduce Calia to the player.

https://www.wowhead.com/news=290617....-scarlet-halls

The datamined map and introductory quests imply that we'll help rescue Dark Ranger Velonara from Scarlet Halls. This quest even has an Alliance version--quite interesting as both factions are at war.

Note that doing this quest wouldn't make sense in 8.1.5, but post 8.2 it definitely could be possible.

Thank the abyss you're here, champion! I am Moorgoth, tracker of fearsome foes in dark places. Anyone in the Trueshot Lodge will vouch for my credentials. Dark Ranger Velonara and I are good friends, and I fear she is in peril. She's been training an apprentice dark ranger. Newly raised, she said. At any rate, her pupil ran off after receiving a letter from his brother, and now Velonara has gone to Tirisfal Glades to find him. I have a bad feeling about all this. Could you check on her safety?

Who wants to be the brother found Calia and her gang who are holed up in the church, because Light?

[Maxilian]

People in need of having always some wetness around themselves < People living under the driest conditions and being able to generally live everywhere. I dont see Kelfins joing the Horde, since they have no big leader and are just part of the Unshackled, they have nothing in common besides just being freed slaves. IMO they will just go back into the sea after we dealt with Azshara.

Yeah, is a possibility, but also have in mind, that there are a lot of Gilblins, even in some zones of Zandalar we see them walking around as enemies, and it was explained before that they were under mindcontrol, so with Azshara defeated, they may end up free and with nowhere to go, and you know who like cheap workers? i mean new able hands? THE GOBLINS!, also the Goblin city is already a port city so it can be a good place for them to.

Note: In general, the Gilblins are just a nice option, not the best, not the worst.

Note2: The need of wetness is not a problem for a race with enough technology, heck... is even a whole new market for the Goblins

[Sondrelk]

After mentioning the Dark Ranger quest, which still hasn't made it in sine 8.1.5, I really do think this is meant to introduce Calia to the player.

https://www.wowhead.com/news=290617....-scarlet-halls





Who wants to be the brother found Calia and her gang who are holed up in the church, because Light?

I honestly completely forgot about that datamined quest.

I can see it being about Calia, she has to be somewhere, and the old scarlet area is asa good a place as any, would definitely be a potential nice segway into either Calia as Forsaken leader, or new Alliance AR. Calia is absolutely starved for exposure in the story, especially considering how big an impact her character had on the Forsaken story, especialy the longstanding story arc of the Forsaken trying to find a place in the world.


I suppose it might have been postponed when Blizz realized there was no way it could reasonably be expected for any Alliance outside hunters to help a dark ranger, will still be a problem after, but at least if 8.2.5 deals with the rebellion, then we could reasonably expect some amount of help given to Horde not loyal to Sylvanas.

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Yeah, is a possibility, but also have in mind, that there are a lot of Gilblins, even in some zones of Zandalar we see them walking around as enemies, and it was explained before that they were under mindcontrol, so with Azshara defeated, they may end up free and with nowhere to go, and you know who like cheap workers? i mean new able hands? THE GOBLINS!, also the Goblin city is already a port city so it can be a good place for them to.

Note: In general, the Gilblins are just a nice option, not the best, not the worst.

Note2: The need of wetness is not a problem for a race with enough technology, heck... is even a whole new market for the Goblins

Just to add my 2 cents here. Gilblins have a problem of not really having any kind of story attached that could inform actions after Azshara, they only want ot be free of her, with no (as far as i know at least) motivations beyond not wanting to be slaves.
While you could say the same for the Ankoan in their crusade against Azshara, at least they show they have a level of society that could function independently of Azshara that is in need of a new purpose after, and even discounting that, they could still rejoin the Jinyu in Pandaria, and the Alliance by proxy.
Gilblins just seem like they will walk away from their slavery to do nothing of note forever.

[George Costanza]

So, what to expect of 8.2.5? My guesses:

- Worgen and goblin models and heritage armor (Confirmed)
- New warfront (Draenei vs. Mag’har in Myst Isles is my bet, but it could also be a Barrens or Mul’gore warfront)
- More war campaign, with Nazjatar fallout and maybe defense of Mul’gore (if it’s not a warfront)
- Vulpera and Mechagnome allied races


What else could it have?

Why are you expecting a draenei/maghar warfront?

[Maxilian]

Just to add my 2 cents here. Gilblins have a problem of not really having any kind of story attached that could inform actions after Azshara, they only want ot be free of her, with no (as far as i know at least) motivations beyond not wanting to be slaves.
While you could say the same for the Ankoan in their crusade against Azshara, at least they show they have a level of society that could function independently of
Azshara that is in need of a new purpose after, and even discounting that, they could still rejoin the Jinyu in Pandaria, and the Alliance by proxy.
Gilblins just seem like they will walk away from their slavery to do nothing of note forever.

I agree that the Gilblins have less of a culture than the Ankoan, but that's exactly why i think they would just end up absorbed by the Goblins different cartels, just like how you say that the Ankoan could rejoin the Jinyu in Pandaria, an idea that i find harder to happen than the Gilblins joining the Goblins cartels, mostly because the Jinyu and the Ankoan already have a different way of thinking unlike the Gilblin and the Goblins, that both are mostly on the same page when it comes to way of seeing the world.

Either way, the Gilblins in general, have the problem that the Goblins are not a really popular race (they are cool but not really popular), so a variation of an already unpopular race is, most likely, going to end up as an unpopular AR.

[EbaumsTipster]

Either way, the Gilblins in general, have the problem that the Goblins are not a really popular race (they are cool but not really popular), so a variation of an already unpopular race is, most likely, going to end up as an unpopular AR.

We've already seen Blizzard doesn't care with Kul Tirans and Mechagnomes. Vulpera are the Goblin AR regardless of what anyone says and that is the main barrier of entry for Gilblins. No more no less.

[Sondrelk]

I agree that the Gilblins have less of a culture than the Ankoan, but that's exactly why i think they would just end up absorbed by the Goblins different cartels, just like how you say that the Ankoan could rejoin the Jinyu in Pandaria, an idea that i find harder to happen than the Gilblins joining the Goblins cartels, mostly because the Jinyu and the Ankoan already have a different way of thinking unlike the Gilblin and the Goblins, that both are mostly on the same page when it comes to way of seeing the world.

Either way, the Gilblins in general, have the problem that the Goblins are not a really popular race (they are cool but not really popular), so a variation of an already unpopular race is, most likely, going to end up as an unpopular AR.

I would say this is the main problem with the proposed Gilblin allied race, if the only reasonable in they have to the Horde is through the Goblins, in which they would simply be the same, but with fins, then they don't really add a lot, Ankoan would have brought a different flavor, regardless if Jinyu was already a race.


That is neither here nor there though, i find it hard to believe Gilblins will actually be an AR, Vulpera is the far superior choice from all angles. There is probably not a law set in stone that no 2 AR can pull form the same rigging, i still think Vulpera and Gilblins would be too similar to warrant being marketed as 2 separate new ARs.



That being said, i am curious where the story of the races we meet will go. My gut feeling is telling me nowhere, just like the Krokul on Argus, but i could be wrong, i would love if the Ankoan formally joins the Alliance at the end of Nazjatar, even if only as an NPC race, i love their aesthetic too much to see them languish in a zone that i will only end up visiting a few times for transmog runs or mount farming.

[EbaumsTipster]

That being said, i am curious where the story of the races we meet will go. My gut feeling is telling me nowhere, just like the Krokul on Argus, but i could be wrong, i would love if the Ankoan formally joins the Alliance at the end of Nazjatar, even if only as an NPC race, i love their aesthetic too much to see them languish in a zone that i will only end up visiting a few times for transmog runs or mount farming.

I think Blizz just gave up trying to make Ankoan/Jinyu work as playable, I'm assuming their faces were a nightmare to rig, they couldn't implement female bodies without it looking bad and fins through armor didn't work. It's a shame that no Nazjatar race will likely be playable but that's just the way of it: I bet you ten bucks that if Vulpera hadn't been thought of Gilblins would likely have been a playable race.

[Maxilian]

I would say this is the main problem with the proposed Gilblin allied race, if the only reasonable in they have to the Horde is through the Goblins, in which they would simply be the same, but with fins, then they don't really add a lot, Ankoan would have brought a different flavor, regardless if Jinyu was already a race.


That is neither here nor there though, i find it hard to believe Gilblins will actually be an AR, Vulpera is the far superior choice from all angles. There is probably not a law set in stone that no 2 AR can pull form the same rigging, i still think Vulpera and Gilblins would be too similar to warrant being marketed as 2 separate new ARs.



That being said, i am curious where the story of the races we meet will go. My gut feeling is telling me nowhere, just like the Krokul on Argus, but i could be wrong, i would love if the Ankoan formally joins the Alliance at the end of Nazjatar, even if only as an NPC race, i love their aesthetic too much to see them languish in a zone that i will only end up visiting a few times for transmog runs or mount farming.

A fair point, though i think the Gilblins could be a tool to give more story and progress the story of Goblins in general, but is true that the Vulpera are the superior version.

And yes, i also fear that they will end up as the Krokul (that should have really joined the Alliance before or with the VE)

[Sondrelk]

We've already seen Blizzard doesn't care with Kul Tirans and Mechagnomes. Vulpera are the Goblin AR regardless of what anyone says and that is the main barrier of entry for Gilblins. No more no less.

Kul Tiran have at least the benefit of being a completely new rigging and model, which by itself means it has merit.
I would agree with Mechagnomes though.
I like to think of the AR potential by imagining their popularity in subgroups. So for instance, to take the first 2 Alliance ARs:

Lightforged was not a great AR because the subset of people who would want to play them mostly consist of the preexisting Draenei players who wants to have a white skintone, the extremely small subset of players who don't play Draenei because of them being blue, and the equally small subset of minmaxers who want the best possible Ret paladin.
Velves is a much better AR because they get the subset of players who want Helves, the subset of players who want to play elves in general but don't like Nelves, the edgy people who want to play a "dark" race and the small subset of horde players who want to play as a Belf on Alliance.

Kul Tirans get the subset of players who want ot play a strongman, the subset of players who want to play a human with the unique classes (Druid and shammy) the subset of human players who want to look different and those who enjoy the aesthetic.

Mechagnomes would be pretty much the same as the LF Draenei, it would really mostly be playerd by the subset of gnome players who want to look more mechanical, those who want to play a gnome with the potential exclusive races, and the extremely small subset of players who don't like gnomes because they don't have robot arms.

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I think Blizz just gave up trying to make Ankoan/Jinyu work as playable, I'm assuming their faces were a nightmare to rig, they couldn't implement female bodies without it looking bad and fins through armor didn't work. It's a shame that no Nazjatar race will likely be playable but that's just the way of it: I bet you ten bucks that if Vulpera hadn't been thought of Gilblins would likely have been a playable race.

Would have to agree with you here, Gilblins are about the same level of quality, and potential as Mechagnomes, as outlined in my short rant on subsets.

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A fair point, though i think the Gilblins could be a tool to give more story and progress the story of Goblins in general, but is true that the Vulpera are the superior version.

And yes, i also fear that they will end up as the Krokul (that should have really joined the Alliance before or with the VE)

Regarding the Krokul i would have been content with a simple "We will stay here, Argus can still be redeemed" from the Krokul, as it stands we more or less get the impression htat we leave them there to die.

[AngerFork]

So, what to expect of 8.2.5? My guesses:

- Worgen and goblin models and heritage armor (Confirmed)
- New warfront (Draenei vs. Mag’har in Myst Isles is my bet, but it could also be a Barrens or Mul’gore warfront)
- More war campaign, with Nazjatar fallout and maybe defense of Mul’gore (if it’s not a warfront)
- Vulpera and Mechagnome allied races


What else could it have?

My current guess is as follows:

- Worgen/Goblin models & Heritage Armor (Confirmed)
- Heroic Darkshore Warfront (rather than a new one, bring back the old one in heroic style)
- War Campaign (Probably either defending Thunder Bluff or working to dethrone Sylvanas)
- Vulpera/Mechagnome Allied Races
- Heart of Azeroth chain (likely using what we have to strengthen Azeroth for fights to come)
- C'thraxxi invasions (world quests involving the C'thraxxi post 8.2)
- Pillars of Creation searching quest chain (if we lost the Tidestone, what happened to the rest?)
- Story-wise, first reveal of Calia's new form in-game as well as more info about Derek Proudmoore.

[Maxilian]

Regarding the Krokul i would have been content with a simple "We will stay here, Argus can still be redeemed" from the Krokul, as it stands we more or less get the impression htat we leave them there to die.

I mean... not like we have a spaceship to move them out to a not-dying world, so what can we do?

[EbaumsTipster]

Mechagnomes would be pretty much the same as the LF Draenei, it would really mostly be playerd by the subset of gnome players who want to look more mechanical, those who want to play a gnome with the potential exclusive races, and the extremely small subset of players who don't like gnomes because they don't have robot arms.

I like Mechagnomes as they are presented ingame, but you're right in that their subsets are lacking despite potentially interesting class combinations (shamans with pumps/drills and druids with robot forms are the only things I can see coming from that).

However I don't think every race will be, or even has to be, something super unique. Nightborne are insanely close to Belf in everything but "more elfy" aesthetics and have same-y class combos, yet are still considered a good AR despite looking kind of poor compared to their original models. Highmountain are another bad AR all around in how similar they are to Tauren... but they're still fun and good to have around. I think the biggest problem is that each race needs an AR so some of them are kind of "checklist"y (Mechagnomes, Highmountain) while some others replaced fan requested races (Void Elves and LFD, though I think the reason Broken aren't in is because they failed to flesh them out the same way they didn't or couldn't flesh out Jinyu/Ankoan)

If we see ARs moving forward after 9.0 (I feel like we will, but in drastically smaller numbers) then this "waste of a slot" mindset will subside and people will hopefully be less angry about their inclusion. People will think Mechagnomes were a waste when they could've had high elves, but I guarantee there was ZERO chance that they would make two Belf ARs in one expansion. It was never going to happen. 9.0 maybe but not mid-expansion.

[Sondrelk]

I mean... not like we have a spaceship to move them out to a not-dying world, so what can we do?

I suppose we could assume we did not know that the raid on Antorus would go the way it did, with us being teleported to the Seat of the Pantheon and having to hightail out of the portal as it closed, but that still leaves a bunch of questions, like what happened to the lightforged that did not get teleported on to the Vindicaar, and if all of them got teleported on, why they did not teleport the Krokul as well.

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I like Mechagnomes as they are presented ingame, but you're right in that their subsets are lacking despite potentially interesting class combinations (shamans and druids with robot forms are the only things I can see coming from that).

However I don't think every race will be, or even has to be, something super unique. Nightborne are insanely close to Belf in everything but "more elfy" aesthetics and have same-y class combos, yet are still considered a good AR despite looking kind of poor compared to their original models, and Highmountain are another bad AR all around in how similar they are to Tauren... but they're still fun and good to have around. I think the biggest problem is that each race needs an AR so some of them are kind of "checklist"y (Mechagnomes, Highmountain) while some others replaced fan requested races (Void Elves and LFD, though I think the reason Broken aren't in is because they failed to flesh them out the same way they didn't or couldn't flesh out Jinyu/Ankoan)

If we see ARs moving forward after 9.0 (I feel like we will, but in drastically smaller numbers) then this "waste of a slot" mindset will subside and people will hopefully be less angry about their inclusion. People will think Mechagnomes were a waste when they could've had high elves, but I guarantee there was ZERO chance that they would make two Belf ARs in one expansion. It was never going to happen. 9.0 maybe but not mid-expansion.

I definiely don't think that Mechagnomes is a "waste of a slot", as i mentioned above with the Kul Tiran, it being something new is enough of a reason to add them, i would just feel salty if Mechagnomes is the final AR, if each faction gets 2 ARs in the final patch, similar to the 7.3.5 ARs, then Mechagnomes is a perfectly fine addition, especially if they are partnered with the potential LF undead, or something else.

I definitely think that the constant hype around ARs is not really conducive to a healthy enviroment on the forums, what with it essentially being a breeding ground for complaints about favoritism and whining about Bliz not listening to their specific wishes. It is definitely more suited to being more of an end-of-expansion treat, where each expansion gives an AR to each faction based on tempered expectations set at the beginning of the expansion.

[DeicideUH]

I think the warfront will be shuffled to 8.3 (and I do think there will be one, probably not any more islands but definitely one last warfront) but otherwise I don't think it'll be much more than what you've listed. If we're lucky we'll get some more quests like that one about the dark rangers in Scarlet Monastery (that HAS to do with Calia, what else?) that was datamined, other than the war campaign, but unless we get lucky with a mage tower introduction it'll mostly just be the races and quests.

I don't see much else going on except a warfront in 8.2.5.

New landmass? I doubt it.
New dungeon? I doubt it.
New mini-raid? Really unlikely.

So, I'm guessing warfront to keep people busy and hunting gear/mogs for a while.

Why are you expecting a draenei/maghar warfront?

I have a few theories on this.

First, because this expansion has been a lot about thematic racial gear, and it's been delivered through warfronts and heritage armor. Draenei are one of the races that haven't gotten thematic armor so far, so a warfront centered on them would be a good opportunity for it.

Second, having the mag'har and lightforged draenei actually have roles in the story would be interesting, as so far they are just standing here and there in a few cameos.

Third, a revival of WoD "draenei vs. Iron Horde", but in Azeroth, would be an interesting theme to explore.

And finally, I think Blizz is going to take away some more capital cities before this is over. I dont't think the undead will get Lordaeron back, but the night elves are definitely getting their lands back, so I'm guessing the Draenei will be exiled from the Myst Isles.

My current guess is as follows:

- Worgen/Goblin models & Heritage Armor (Confirmed)
- Heroic Darkshore Warfront (rather than a new one, bring back the old one in heroic style)
- War Campaign (Probably either defending Thunder Bluff or working to dethrone Sylvanas)
- Vulpera/Mechagnome Allied Races
- Heart of Azeroth chain (likely using what we have to strengthen Azeroth for fights to come)
- C'thraxxi invasions (world quests involving the C'thraxxi post 8.2)
- Pillars of Creation searching quest chain (if we lost the Tidestone, what happened to the rest?)
- Story-wise, first reveal of Calia's new form in-game as well as more info about Derek Proudmoore.

Interesting thoughts. I don't think the C'thraxxi will be a huge factor ahead. thought. I'm betting on focus going back on the war.

[EbaumsTipster]

First, because this expansion has been a lot about thematic racial gear, and it's been delivered through warfronts and heritage armor. Draenei are one of the races that haven't gotten thematic armor so far, so a warfront centered on them would be a good opportunity for it.

You're right about the Draenei irrelevance and armor, but you forgot that warfronts have thematic armor for both sides. The only ones missing besides Draenei are Darkspear and Pandas and I'm willing to bet it's not a Panda warfront.

I think it's going to be Draenei vs Darkspear so the Darkspear can FINALLY get some HD armor and the Draenei can have a reason they get kicked out of their house/side with the Nelves/maybe get angry at Anduin. Maybe Pandas will get heritage that is mostly the same but slightly different for each side in a quest in 8.3, but Darkspear absolutely should be a big part of a warfront.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

So, what to expect of 8.2.5? My guesses:

- Worgen and goblin models and heritage armor (Confirmed)
- New warfront (Draenei vs. Mag’har in Myst Isles is my bet, but it could also be a Barrens or Mul’gore warfront)
- More war campaign, with Nazjatar fallout and maybe defense of Mul’gore (if it’s not a warfront)
- Vulpera and Mechagnome allied races


What else could it have?

Southern Barrens Warfront. Alliance and Horde VS Sylvanas.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I don't think we're going to pivot and do the faction war. Especially if what happens at the end of Eternal Palace is true. It would just feel really weird "Oh this really bad thing happened, nah lets not deal with it, go do another thing thats important but not as important as the BIG thing that just happened."