Is casual a metric of skill or time played?

[Ange]

I heared the terminology in Diablo2 2003/2004 while the ladder was known and the game was the biggest thing ever for a few years.

You either played on the ladder or you played casually and that just meant less than X hours a day.

It still remains true for WoW.

It doesnt matter if you play arena, m+, mythic-raiding or what ever. If you participate at any level of the game for a very short amount of time, you are a casual in any MMO.

Nobody really cares for short term childrens play in this game. Do what ever you enjoy, but be aware you play an MMO, the endless grind game genre, where grinding or collecting is in the end all what matters.

[Exkrementor]

It's a metric of attitude you have to game.

This.
Apparently minmaxing your character is viewed as tryhard nowadays. But why are you putting hundreds of hours into the game without wanting to be the best version of yourself?
Someone who only plays 8 hours a week but raids mythic is less of an casual than someone who farms mounts and pets for 25 hours a week.

[MrExcelion]

@Hittion Usually in the context of time played, especially when it's self-referential (not like people really go out of their way to say they suck at WoW, especially with the perception of it being easy gameplay wise)

[chrisnumbers]

It's not that black and white.

It's a combination of:

Time
Skill
Level they play at
Goals they are striving for
Attitude

This basically covers it. To play something casually means you're doing it just for fun, not as a lifestyle.

[lllBlackSunlll]

I think casual is neither, just a player's own expectations of what they are going to accomplish.

If I queue for 2v2 arenas and have a 50%> w/r, having absolutely no problem with that and have no drive to increase the w/r, I would be casual.

If I only run LFR and sometimes normal pug runs and don't care if I have top5 dps or go out of my way to avoid damage in those runs, I am casual.

If my preferred method of getting gear is through world quests and world bosses, and don't care of my Ilvl exceeds what they offer, I am casual.

My point is to be casual is not wanting to be exceptional at any form of gameplay, but a player can play 40 hours a week and still not want to be exceptional.
A player can be really good at something, but if their expectations do not exceed what they are currently capable of, they are casual.

[PaladinBash]

Played time and playstyle.

There's no more skill in modern playstyles at all anymore because try-harding is the norm.

[Drusin]

purposely want to lose and do bad just to "show them" in the game.

Never met any of those. I've met the guys who are bad and know they are bad and don't care about winning because they know they'll eventually come up against someone (talking about pvp) who cares less than them and they'll win. And that's all anyone wants, to win enough to get what they want.

[arkanon]

People over complicate this very simple question so frequently, and its nearly always the same thing - they apply their personal subjective opinion to the question and answer it that way.

The question is answered like this; its a mindset, a frame of mind; related to how we approach the game. If we approach the game with dedication, commitment, and invest mentally into the outcomes we would like to achieve, you are 'hardcore'. If you approach the game with no real goals, and simply complete random content when you feel like it, you are casual.

If you think of yourself as hardcore, you are hardcore. If you think of yourself as casual, you are casual.

And here is why - if you think of yourself as hardcore, you are probably very serious about your time in game - you push aside other things and prioritize your time in game Vs other activities. You say "sorry, no, i cant come to the movies, because im raiding tonight, but tomorrow is a night off so i can go then". You farm reps, matts, gear, things you dont really enjoy, but you know they will benefit you on raid night.

If you think of yourself as casual, wow is like TV time for you - its what you do when you are bored, and have nothing better to do. You say "yeah sure, what time? ill come" and then change your in game invite to say "declined" because for you, its 'just a game' and other things come first.

But time played means nothing. Content completed means nothing. The first person might only have 4 hours a week to play - but it is an absolute priority - maybe the raid is "only" heroic, but for them, its very important. Maybe you could replace "raiding" with "farming mounts" or "im X short of Y and need to complete it this week".

"hardcore" or "casual" is relative. The only constant is how we approach the game - we are the common denominator, not the game. Got 10 hours free time a week and spend 8 of them playing wow? thats pretty hardcore. Got 60 hours a week free and spend 10 of them playing wow? not so hardcore.

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Played time and playstyle.

There's no more skill in modern playstyles at all anymore because try-harding is the norm.

You think world first mythic raiders are not skilled? Multi glad = no skill?

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I high end mythic raid, have 3 cutting edges (raid 2 days a week), do my m10 for the week and never pot/flask/food because it's not worth the gold. What am I?

egotistical

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Casual is a state of mind.

So is hardcore, and i agree completely with what you said.

[arkanon]

I have never ever been willing to say, “hey I got invited to go out to dinner with my friends, but I cat go on raid night.” Therefore I am a casual.

Well i dont think its quite that black and white, but we agree that priority of wow in your life, especially your social life, is a big factor.

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Casuals is anyone who dosen't venture into elitist content.

M+, Mythic, heroic, even normal Anything where people wants you to have a certain ilvl before doing it.

So you think Doubleagent is causal? You think the people spending 10+ hours a day working on their goals and completing them are casual? This is pretty confusing attitude to have.

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No, those are called lazy.

Lazy? dude, its a GAME, you know that right?

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Ding ding ding.

Correct answer is this, its your attitude towards the game you play.

Secondary its casual play times.

The rest is just bad players that fall into a mix of categories that dont accept their level of skill, throwing the term around to feel superior.

The interesting thing here is the number of people confusing 'skilled' or 'unskilled' with hardcore and casual. Attitude is everything, however Dunning-Kruger certainly plays a part here, just like any other activity where people can compare themselves to others.

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id say casual is a metric of progress.
If a person doesnt do mythic raiding or pushes m+ dungeons. then that person is a casual player imo.

All the glad pvp players are confused by this statement.

[Doctor Amadeus]

neither

its just a BS term people use to make them self feel superior

This very much this, no more, nor less. Similar to noob and newb. No serious group or raid I have ever been in typically ignored it. Shit like that really is a big part of what made WoW uninviting and hostile.

Basically it all comes down to goals, finding a nice core or group of people to quest and raid with. There was no single thing on the surface that established if someone was good or not, or how much time they played.

Effort sure would, but honestly there are mechanics in the game that make it pretty easy to determine who would do what where.

I think some have hit on a key factor though, which I disagree with the way it is labeled.

But people who are lazy, cut corners or need to be carried because they put NO effort at all into their character.

However I wouldn't be as quick to label these people because honestly it's a game it is supposed to be fun. The most important thing is to have fun, then socialize with those that have similar goals and have fun.

That's all there is to it.

[bigbleach]

I see it used rather interchangeably and I wonder if people still have a general agreed upon definition for it. Is a player for example that full clears mythic playing 6 hours a week a casual?

If not is a player who plays for 40 hours a week but never moves past lfr one?

What exactly is a casual these days?

Idk, to me casual means not participating in scheduled raiding at or below heroic (old normal) difficulty. Only aiming to get, at most, their +10 done for the week and aiming, from there, for low keys. I don't really put a time constraint on it. There have been times I've played far more than 40 hours in a week and there have been times I've played less than 20. My play time didn't really stop me from raiding through heroic a few nights a week and stepping into the first few bosses on mythic.

[arkanon]

How much someone plays.

Person A works full time, has a family, and other commitments. They have roughly 10 hours free per week. Of those, they spend 8 playing wow - in that time they push M+ keys well into double digits with a committed group of 5, at scheduled times every week.

Person B has no job. No school. No commitments. They have 18 hour a day spare, but only spend 2 of them playing wow. Over the week, they have 125+ hours free, and only spend 16 playing wow. They just run around the capitol city, talk shit in trade chat, and do a warfront if its up.

One person is dedicating 80% of the spare time to wow, and completing high end content with a dedicated group of friends with planned 'raid' times. You consider this person casual. The second person is spending 10% of their free time playing wow, and not completing much content at all, plays at random times, with no dedicated groups - most of their time in game is spent talking and fluffing around. You consider this person to be more hardcore.

interesting.

[cparle87]

I see it used rather interchangeably and I wonder if people still have a general agreed upon definition for it. Is a player for example that full clears mythic playing 6 hours a week a casual?

If not is a player who plays for 40 hours a week but never moves past lfr one?

What exactly is a casual these days?

Either of your definition fits it. A guy who plays a ton but never does anything high end is casual. So if someone who does high end stuff but only plays a bit.

[Destinas]

It's considered both.

Someone that plays 3 hours a week might be considered "casual" even if those 3 hours are spent mythic raiding.

Someone that plays 5 hours a day, every day, would normally not be considered casual - but they will be considered that way if they pretty much only do things that are seen as lower difficulty in the community (LFR, dungeons, pet battles, farming for transmog, etc).

People use it either way. There isn't a definite term, just whatever other people think is lower than themselves by their own standards.

[potis]

The interesting thing here is the number of people confusing 'skilled' or 'unskilled' with hardcore and casual. Attitude is everything, however Dunning-Kruger certainly plays a part here, just like any other activity where people can compare themselves to others.

Well, there are connections between skilled and unskilled and hardcore and casual, assuming using the correct terms, or well defining the terms before making assumptions.

Hardcore and casual is always about mentality, and as i said secondary about time dedicated.

But someone with a casual mentality towards World of Warcraft as example, without ever changing it, will never be considered skilled at World of Warcraft.

Because of net cafe culture, i had/have the misfortune of meeting hundreds (thousands) of people playing WoW (games generally also, duhh) and i know people that can play 40h a week for months, without ever improving.

So you have casual mentality hardcore time dedicated players that are simply terrible at the game forever, which is basically the majority of the players in WoW at any given time.

[arkanon]

Well, there are connections between skilled and unskilled and hardcore and casual, assuming using the correct terms, or well defining the terms before making assumptions.

Hardcore and casual is always about mentality, and as i said secondary about time dedicated.

But someone with a casual mentality towards World of Warcraft as example, without ever changing it, will never be considered skilled at World of Warcraft.

Because of net cafe culture, i had/have the misfortune of meeting hundreds (thousands) of people playing WoW (games generally also, duhh) and i know people that can play 40h a week for months, without ever improving.

So you have casual mentality hardcore time dedicated players that are simply terrible at the game forever, which is basically the majority of the players in WoW at any given time.

Someone already playing at the highest level of play has very little room if any for improvement though. So improvement cannot be part of their metric. Again, you say "hardcore time" like that means something. That is a really silly thing to base an argument on - something that is quite subjective, and purely relative.

[Muajin76]

Perhaps casual is a state of mine
I have friends that raid a lot and consider themselves as casuals. :P

[Abysal]

I think there's different facets to it, but ultimately the terminology is useless.

If someone buys mythic carries are they "hardcore"? They may totally suck at the game but most just look at their ilvl and achievements and assume they are awesome at the game. If someone always performs exceptionally when they do they "hardcore" content, but they rarely do it, are they ultimately a casual? Who would you rather group with, the person with the achievements that they bought or the person with skill who lacks the achievements?

[arkanon]

Perhaps casual is a state of mine
I have friends that raid a lot and consider themselves as casuals. :P

mind* im assuming. This certainly plays into it. Some will say "hey, that person is way more hardcore than me" when other would consider them both casual. As raiders, we often forget that even clearing normal with a guild is considered "hardcore" by a much larger portion of the community than we would ever imagine.

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I think there's different facets to it, but ultimately the terminology is useless.

If someone buys mythic carries are they "hardcore"? They may totally suck at the game but most just look at their ilvl and achievements and assume they are awesome at the game. If someone always performs exceptionally when they do they "hardcore" content, but they rarely do it, are they ultimately a casual? Who would you rather group with, the person with the achievements that they bought or the person with skill who lacks the achievements?

To answer your question, i would prefer to group with people at my skill level, and with a similar attitude towards the game to me. At times that has meant somewhat serious heroic raiding (pre mythic) and currently that means chilled AF normal clears for lols and calling ppl childish names.

As far as time played, this was my comment regarding that:

"Person A works full time, has a family, and other commitments. They have roughly 10 hours free per week. Of those, they spend 8 playing wow - in that time they push M+ keys well into double digits with a committed group of 5, at scheduled times every week.

Person B has no job. No school. No commitments. They have 18 hour a day spare, but only spend 2 of them playing wow. Over the week, they have 125+ hours free, and only spend 16 playing wow. They just run around the capitol city, talk shit in trade chat, and do a warfront if its up.

One person is dedicating 80% of the spare time to wow, and completing high end content with a dedicated group of friends with planned 'raid' times. You consider this person casual. The second person is spending 10% of their free time playing wow, and not completing much content at all, plays at random times, with no dedicated groups - most of their time in game is spent talking and fluffing around.

[Amaterasu65]

I used to be a high end mythic raider til some time ago, doesn't make me less skilled now that I'm subbing every once in a while.

I think a casual is just someone who won't engage with content that requires actual commitment. I am a casual that raids heroic raids, do +10s and outdoor content. I still simcraft after every upgrade and look to discord/sites to see what's best. But sometimes I don't even bother to do heroic raids and just level up chars. For me committing would be a mythic guild, or programmed arena sessions with a team, or RBG teams. For others, doing heroic raiding and weekly m+ might not seem casual. I think it's a vague concept that changes depending on each individual.