[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[therealstegblob]

I can't speak for the books I've only read the first two so far but as for the show you're forgetting the deaths of Robert Baratheon, Renly Baratheon, Stannis Baratheon, Joffrey Baratheon, Tommen Baratheon, Myrcella Baratheon, Maester Pycelle, Margaery Tyrell, Loras Tyrell, Oberyn Martell, Rickon Stark, Tywin Lannister, Shay, technically Jon Snow, Khal Drogo, Lysa Arryn, Hodor, Ser Barristan Selmy, Shireen Baratheon, Benjin Stark, and Ygritte and there's probably a couple others that I'm forgetting.

Sorry, but no. I'm not forgetting any of those, lolol. And no, not "Technically Jon Snow", dying just to come back from being dead is not a character death. None of the characters you listed are PoV characters in the books, and most are only minor characters in the show. They're disposable and not at all the same as killing a character like Tyrion or Arya, who are "main" characters and major PoV characters in the book.

Try again.

The problem I had with Dany in season 8 was not that she turned mad but how rushed it was. It really needed a whole season to properly build up her going completely mad and not just go from "yeah sure" in one episode to "BURN THEM ALL!" in the next.

She literally talks about just attacking Kings Landing, it is literally her very first plan of action that she has to be talked out of doing. Explain better how "they needed a whole season to properly build this up", because you're just talking out of your ass. You don't know how 'a whole season to build it up' would even work, because you do not know how writing works. Just spitballing rando "i think this fixes a problem" concepts makes you an idea guy, i.e., the butt of jokes about arrogant people with grand ideas and no way of actually explaining how they're even supposed to work. No one likes idea guys.

If she was so pissed at Cersei why didn't she just fly up to her keep and burn her? Why waste all that time burning the people whom she had no quarrels with? It accomplishes nothing

Because we know Dany is spiteful and vengeful, it's been built up for the entire god damned show whether you want to acknowledge it or not. She's angry at the people of Kings Landing for not siding with her, she's angry she doesn't fit in and she isn't being seen the way she wants to be seen. She's angry that the commonfolk of Westeros see her as an invader and would rather pose as human shields for Cersei than side with her. She knows Cersei is using them as shields, she knows Cersei is trying to exploit their weakness of kindness. She wants Cersei to see that she's wrong about that, and it's part of Dany's revenge against her. This is stuff that was laid down in Season 8. It was literally the only arc that actually worked and made sense. Just because it went over your head doesn't mean it wasn't there.

I get the whole Jaime trying to be a better man and failing at it so he decides to go back to where he started but it makes for an unsatisfying ending to a story. To me building Jaime up to be this redeemed honorable guy just to have him go back to Cersei because their both "hateful people" just seems like a waste to me.

I think it could have been done a little better, as it was pretty rushed (though the situation at least helped the rush feel more natural as opposed to inorganic for the sake of drama). I don't mind Jaime dying the way he did, especially because it directly and totally subverts the prophecy of Cersei's demise (the phoniness of prophecy being a cornerstone of the entire story).

[Ihavewaffles]

So far, it's a pretty wooden box, got some "exclusive" conan o'brien(o'brian?) meeting with the cast, video will end up on utube for free...

Still don't see why it would cost ca 300$, why even over 100$?



Previous box had a figure of the night king riding viserion...what does this have?

Edit: my error, it was Drogon for the s01-07 box

[Pony Soldier]

Sorry, but no. I'm not forgetting any of those, lolol. And no, not "Technically Jon Snow", dying just to come back from being dead is not a character death. None of the characters you listed are PoV characters in the books, and most are only minor characters in the show. They're disposable and not at all the same as killing a character like Tyrion or Arya, who are "main" characters and major PoV characters in the book.

Try again.



She literally talks about just attacking Kings Landing, it is literally her very first plan of action that she has to be talked out of doing. Explain better how "they needed a whole season to properly build this up", because you're just talking out of your ass. You don't know how 'a whole season to build it up' would even work, because you do not know how writing works. Just spitballing rando "i think this fixes a problem" concepts makes you an idea guy, i.e., the butt of jokes about arrogant people with grand ideas and no way of actually explaining how they're even supposed to work. No one likes idea guys.

Well seeing how the books and the show are vastly different from each other, whether they were PoV characters in the book or not is kind of irrelevant here. Maybe not all those characters were MAIN characters but some were like Tywin and Ned who I somehow forgot to mention.

I don't know how writing works but you're somehow an expert apparently. Ok. And so you now want to take this discussion into insults and ridicule so I'm done talking to you.

And no one likes douchebags. Might explain why you're banned.

[Independent voter]

OOooooo!


The Tullys have Crastor's last remaining son. It would be cool if the kid did something Night King related when he comes of age.

(This is the books, not the tv series.)

[rogueMatthias]

Season 8 ruined the whole show. I won't even rewatch GoT, knowing its conclusion is so profoundly amateurish and stupdenous.

Same. I can't even imagine wanting spin-off shows at this rate.

"Lets have a spin off to see the origin of the night King!!" "Why? Turns out he was barely a real threat and got punked by a little girl. Who gives a fuck where he came from when he was overhyped and irrelevant?"

The problem with this whole "nothing is important or means anything" conclusion they gave it is that it just makes nobody care.

Like Jon Snow was meant to be so important he was brought back to life again - for what? What was the point of ANY of it? What was the point of the insane amounts of foreshadowing and story building that was put into anything?

It's just so frustrating how bad it was. Like if it was real world, sure, anyone can die any moment and anything can change whatever. But in a fantasy show about magic, so heavily fill of foreshadowing, character arcs, literal "visioins" of the future etc... things have got to mean something and the narrative needs purpose.

The funniest part I find is that the Bran Stark ending was actually leaked AAAAGES before, from many reliable sources, but was still never taken seriously by any pages or forums at all as it was such an utterly shit ending that nobody could actually believe for a moment that it could be real. #bittersweet

[Veggie50]

I kinda wish Jaimy survived. I think he and Jon could really see eye to eye now... king and queenslayers. Under very similar circumstances.

[Poe]

I kinda wish Jaimy survived. I think he and Jon could really see eye to eye now... king and queenslayers. Under very similar circumstances.

Maybe but what if it was Cersei who wanted to burn the city down? Do you think Jamie would have killed his lover? I think not. His love for Cersei was unconditional.

I think that's the difference between Jamie and Jon. Jamie would do anything for his lover, no matter how immoral it may seem. (He tried to murder a boy in episode 1))

Jon killed his lover to save his people. Jaime kills any people to save his lover.

[MidnightReveries]

To kill Dany because she was the real threat to Westeros. As her lover and a person who put the realm first, he (supposedly) was the only one that could do it.

Arya easily could have done it herself, so not exactly the best foreshadowing, but we deal...

She was no threat to Westeros. In fact i actually agreed with her at the end, you need an iron hand to bring things together.

[Thelxi]

She was no threat to Westeros. In fact i actually agreed with her at the end, you need an iron hand to bring things together.

This is the opinion that the show should have aimed for, half for half against, instead of insane indisputable, irrational and totally unprecedented evil almost everyone condemns.

[Shadowferal]

She was no threat to Westeros. In fact i actually agreed with her at the end, you need an iron hand to bring things together.

Well, that worked for Constantine and Charlemagne. So, there is a point here.

[Rose Upshur]

I read somewhere that the director decided to shoot a TV show just for the sake of the Red Wedding. Well, everyone remembered this wedding forever. Game of thrones is and remains my favorite TV show just because there is an amazing Brienne. The great female warrior that Jaime threw so easily. I never saw any logic in his actions, his attachment to Cersei is justified only by a fanatical attitude to what was and was not destined to repeat. His death was one of the most useless in the series. Jon Snow started where he stayed. He did not want a royal throne or power. In fact, he wanted to avenge his father and mother (though not his relatives) and that’s all. He began to hang unnecessary titles, which placed on him a great responsibility. I think the end of his storyline is logical as well as the logical conclusion of the life of Deineris. Nobody explained to this girl what is good and what is bad. She did not have a mentor, only fucked brother, who wanted to win the throne with her. When Deanerys killed people in the name of liberation and protection, everyone told her that it was good. This is power. She eventually became a tyrant and met her end in the hands of her beloved. But she never loved anyone more than Khal Drogo. Until recently, she hoped that Tyrion Lannister would be king! Seriously! But I was waiting for a bummer. Like everyone else, in total. Few episodes, short storylines of all the characters, many fans resent. In my opinion, the end came out idealized - Sansa became the queen of Winterfell. In general, as wanted. Aria went to travel. As wanted. Jon Snow, as he came into this world with nothing, and left. As wanted. And Bran was just lucky haha. So many wars, battles, conflicts for the sake of the iron throne, which Bran eventually received, but which was also destroyed by one of the dragons, Deineris. Cheerful ending and at the same time sad. The Avengers are over, the game of thrones too. So what to expect next?

[ecospherez]

Same. I can't even imagine wanting spin-off shows at this rate.

"Lets have a spin off to see the origin of the night King!!" "Why? Turns out he was barely a real threat and got punked by a little girl. Who gives a fuck where he came from when he was overhyped and irrelevant?"

The problem with this whole "nothing is important or means anything" conclusion they gave it is that it just makes nobody care.

Like Jon Snow was meant to be so important he was brought back to life again - for what? What was the point of ANY of it? What was the point of the insane amounts of foreshadowing and story building that was put into anything?

It's just so frustrating how bad it was. Like if it was real world, sure, anyone can die any moment and anything can change whatever. But in a fantasy show about magic, so heavily fill of foreshadowing, character arcs, literal "visioins" of the future etc... things have got to mean something and the narrative needs purpose.

The funniest part I find is that the Bran Stark ending was actually leaked AAAAGES before, from many reliable sources, but was still never taken seriously by any pages or forums at all as it was such an utterly shit ending that nobody could actually believe for a moment that it could be real. #bittersweet

Basically this.......

I've watched other seasons again before the last season came out, trying to find deeper meaning and hidden content ..... just for the show to end how it did. Won't ever watch it again which makes me feel sad in a way. I know it's only TV but to be invested in something for so long for it to end in such a 'nothing' way just sucks.

[therealstegblob]

Well seeing how the books and the show are vastly different from each other, whether they were PoV characters in the book or not is kind of irrelevant here. Maybe not all those characters were MAIN characters but some were like Tywin and Ned who I somehow forgot to mention.

The argument I'm making isn't "main characters never die" (only Ned was a main character by the way, Tywin is not a main character in either the book or show), it's that characters don't die in a greater volume in Game of Thrones than in most other stories (especially of similar size/scope). In fact, most main characters escape death routinely and are not in any way different from the main characters in other stories.

I don't know how writing works

Correct, you do not. You expect things to just 'work' because you want them to work that way. Hence, you don't know how writing works.

but you're somehow an expert apparently.

Protip: Just because someone knows more about something than you do, it does not mean they're claiming to be an expert and you are just putting words in my mouth and using ad hominem.

And no one likes douchebags. Might explain why you're banned.

While speaking about moderator decisions is against the rules (can't have people speaking out against bad mods after all) and you should frankly be infracted for even saying this, and I risk infraction for speaking on this further, I was banned for more or less barely violating rules as around half of any given ban on this forum is either for the most minor of rule violation or, in a lot of other cases, just because some mod abused their powers and infracted someone incorrectly/for no reason. Suffice to say it doesn't bear talking about and you're acting like a child by bringing it up. Backed into a corner, much?

[AlStan322]

I love GOT and the whole universe of ASOIAF and can't wait to read the new books!

[cubby]

Season 8 ruined the whole show. I won't even rewatch GoT, knowing its conclusion is so profoundly amateurish and stupdenous.

The story arcs played out fairly well. I'm not sure where you are getting that anything was "ruined". What I see mostly are people who didn't like how it ended, wanted something different, and are now upset that they didn't get their way.

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Same. I can't even imagine wanting spin-off shows at this rate.

"Lets have a spin off to see the origin of the night King!!" "Why? Turns out he was barely a real threat and got punked by a little girl. Who gives a fuck where he came from when he was overhyped and irrelevant?"

The problem with this whole "nothing is important or means anything" conclusion they gave it is that it just makes nobody care.

Like Jon Snow was meant to be so important he was brought back to life again - for what? What was the point of ANY of it? What was the point of the insane amounts of foreshadowing and story building that was put into anything?

It's just so frustrating how bad it was. Like if it was real world, sure, anyone can die any moment and anything can change whatever. But in a fantasy show about magic, so heavily fill of foreshadowing, character arcs, literal "visioins" of the future etc... things have got to mean something and the narrative needs purpose.

The funniest part I find is that the Bran Stark ending was actually leaked AAAAGES before, from many reliable sources, but was still never taken seriously by any pages or forums at all as it was such an utterly shit ending that nobody could actually believe for a moment that it could be real. #bittersweet

Are you asking about what the point of bring Jon Snow back was? Because it seemed pretty obvious - he was one of the few people who could kill Dany and also be in a position to do so. (Arya could have too, but she doesn't get two).

What heavy foreshadowing and character arcs are you talking about that I'm guessing (I don't want to put words in your mouth) you felt was ruined?

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To kill Dany because she was the real threat to Westeros. As her lover and a person who put the realm first, he (supposedly) was the only one that could do it.

Arya easily could have done it herself, so not exactly the best foreshadowing, but we deal...

Exactly.

I find most the character arcs were true to the characters. The only person who really got set free was Jon. He was set to be forced to rule and now he can just be free. I know I just said this above, but I find most people are upset about GoT ending because they didn't agree with it, and then they back into their reasons of why it was so "bad".

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I kinda wish Jaimy survived. I think he and Jon could really see eye to eye now... king and queenslayers. Under very similar circumstances.

I would have liked him to survive as well. But he played out he character well. We all thought he was going to the "good" side when he abandoned Cersi (or seemed to), but really it was very well summed up with Brienne - he's always been awful, and he always will. A few good/decent things he did won't change that.

[Koriani]

As much as I respect the actors/actresses and agree that at least SOME Of them deserve an Emmy nod for Season 8... (Go Greyjoy actor! Can't believe HBO only submitted the main crew!)

The idea of Season 8 getting them MORE Emmy Noms than any other season - is flabbergasting!
The SHOW itself getting nominated for BEST SERIES for last season, is mind boggling.

Are ya' kidding me?

The WORST Season of the entire Show's life (even people who didn't mind this season liked other seasons better) and they nominate it for all the Emmy's?

What a bitchslap to all those other shows if GoT wins Best Series... because this is the one season the show itself shouldn't have been nominated for crap. Actors sure, but not the show itself.

How much more backlash and overwhelmingly negative reviews and feedback would a show have to get to NOT be nominated for an emmy for a season? Good grief.

(Yes I realize Emmy's 'are a joke' and 'awards mean nothing' but that's not entirely true. And you'd at least expect awards to have their own internal standards of consistency. Even people who are OK with Season 8 don't argue that it is "good writing" much less "best series of the year" level. Seriously...)

[RobertoCarlos]

Well writing is only one category.

Every other part of season 8 was actually pretty well done.

Too bad writing is the most important part and was sorely lacking.

[tehealadin]

Well writing is only one category.

Every other part of season 8 was actually pretty well done.

Too bad writing is the most important part and was sorely lacking.

Agreed. The acting was spot on and the sheer spectacle was at times astonishing. The sacking of Kings Landing was probably the most visually spectacular thing I have ever seen on TV, and ranks up there with Hollywood blockbusters. My only wish was that they had given this a lot more episodes (I'd have ended S8 with the battle for Winterfell and had an S9 to deal with the rest) to better pace the arcs.

[Kathranis]

Agreed. The acting was spot on and the sheer spectacle was at times astonishing. The sacking of Kings Landing was probably the most visually spectacular thing I have ever seen on TV, and ranks up there with Hollywood blockbusters. My only wish was that they had given this a lot more episodes (I'd have ended S8 with the battle for Winterfell and had an S9 to deal with the rest) to better pace the arcs.

For sure. It's incredibly frustrating that the simplest, cheapest part of creating a film or show is often its biggest flaw. Literally just need one talented person and a laptop and the sky's the limit. Get a whole team of talented people to collaborate. Barring deadlines, it can be rewritten dozens of times and refined until the quality is sufficient.

With more than a year of lead time and an order of only six episodes, I'm pretty sure the only way you can really shit the bed is if you continuously let people with bad ideas have their way.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Barring deadlines, it can be rewritten dozens of times and refined until the quality is sufficient.

You don't want a script rewritten "dozens of times". With each rewrite, the core stroke of inspiration that made the first draft special is lost with each rewrite as the work is made "safer". Just compare the drafts of films that were great on paper with the safe, bland final product after it was rewritten several times.