Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[FlubberPuddy]

No, I am one of the leading proponents of the idea of blue eyed Blood Elves on the grounds that the Alliance high elves are a faction of a playable Horde race, albeit a traitor faction. As they are the same race, anything available to one should be available to the other. As the taint is being expunged, blue eyes for Blood Elves should be feasible to reflect the arcane aspect of the Sunwell and the fact many Blood Elves are practitioners of the Arcane.

I don't think this has a chance of happening anymore though, not because of High Elves mind you, but because of Void Elves. Playable Void Elves have blue eyes and as we know from the Allied Races and their "parent races", just because there is customization that an Allied Race has (Orc hairstyles/beards, Dwarven hairstyles/tattoos, Nightborne/elf hair color / eye color, HMT tattoos, LF Draenei hairstyles, etc) it doesn't mean the "parent race" gets access to those customizations as well.

Until you or anyone else can prove it, saying "As they are the same race, anything available to one should be available to the other." means nothing until Blizzard has given us examples of it. So far, there are none which makes the precedent more than likely these customizations are given to Allied Races to give them more differences from their "parent race".

[Strippling]

Thank you for explaining why Blood Elves going to the Horde in the first place was bad for Warcraft's lore and jeopardized faction identity in TBC. Had Blizzard put the Blood Elves with the faction they're supposed to be with in the first place, nobody would be requesting their distinct cousins the High Elves.

Faction identity is important. Thalassian elves are part of the Alliance's identity. And here we are today.

I can't tell if you're trolling or serious.

[Aldo Hawk]

I can high elf and so can you.





Stick a Silver Covenant tabard on and wear a full-cover helm and you're near as dammit. #AcceptTheRen'doreiCompromise

Could you please go to Stormwind and report your experience to us?

[DeicideUH]

Could you please go to Stormwind and report your experience to us?

He just used Orb of the Sin'dorei there. A Horde character can't use that tabard and mount.

[Aldo Hawk]

He just used Orb of the Sin'dorei there. A Horde character can't use that tabard and mount.

Oh. So it's just a full armor trick for 5 minutes every 30 minutes.

Still a condescending 'demonstration'.

[scubi666stacy]

You're basically reinforcing my point, here, so I thank you.

"They're not playable races. Why should Blizzard 'bury resources' on them?"

Goblins gained a truck-load of animations and voice lines when they became playable. Worgen gained a whole new model along with animations and voice lines when they became playable.

Kul'Tiras humans looked exactly like Stormwind humans because they weren't playable. But when they became playable, Blizzard made them different. But before that, the only difference between the two were the tabard and armor colors, green and blue, respectively.


Well, when you demonstrate such a lack of understanding of what is being talked about, it does look that way. But then it hurts your attempt at argumentation than it makes mine look bad, mind you.

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And if you followed the conversation here you'd see that I'm not arguing that the exact same scope of transformation happened to the blood elves. It's like you don't read my replies to you:






For pete's sake, dude. How about some honesty in this conversation? At no point I said anything remotely close to that dumb strawman of yours. I said, and I repeat:

Resisting the withdrawal effects of an addiction =/= sating said addiction.


There is basis for it. My brother worked through his drug addiction withdrawal by starting to exercise regularly since group therapy wasn't enough for him.

But if you want in-game examples, there are none. But that does not mean it's not possible. We don't know every single high elf's backstory.


Then you admit to hypocrisy and double-standards as you've shown that "faction identity" is something that "really matters" when other people ask for things that you have no interest in, but you're willing to discard it like yesterday's napkin when it benefits your ideas. Can't eat your cake and have it, dude.


https://playwarcraft3.com/en-us/

Scroll down to the Races section. Bam. Elves with green eyes. Looks like it didn't take "four years" to get green eyes.


"Inventing things" is the basis of story progression, even when retroactively adding things. The draenei are the biggest example of that, considering the majestic draenei we knew literally did not exist before TBC. All we knew as "draenei" are the ones we know today as "broken". And your "lore evidence" does work for squat. You're basically arguing fel magic doesn't change a person's body, despite countless examples of that happening in the game.


That doesn't mean more cannot be added.

And this is such a dishonest argument to make since high elves resemble much closely a blood elf than a night elf in build. It was much easier, faster, and cheaper to simply give the blood elf model to high elves instead of making a specific model for them, since there was no real reason to do so since they are not a playable race.

"Basically kind of are". Words to remember. Also: more words to remember: "not all high elves are blood elves".

Do you honestly think Blizzard would say Kul'Tiran humans would physically look different than Stormwind humans if this question was asked... say, during Wrath, or Cataclysm?

I am speaking about the logical, financial and logistical reasons for downgraded models of NPC which are not important and do not have a playable race counterpart to draw models from.

You misunderstand this and spin it to your intention. What a fine demagogue you are.

You are like this pigeon who happens to get something good by chance after doing a pirouette, and now repeating pirouettes over and over hoping to get some more.

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He just used Orb of the Sin'dorei there. A Horde character can't use that tabard and mount.

Take a void elf, put on a fitting transmog and there you go.

You don't even have a clearly defined stance beside "it's not a High Elf, wah wah!"

Blood Elves are High Elves. Void Elves are High Elves as well. We have 2 f***ing High Elf races in the game and you still keep on bickering.

[Aldo Hawk]

Take a void elf, put on a fitting transmog and there you go.

You don't even have a clearly defined stance beside "it's not a High Elf, wah wah!"

Blood Elves are High Elves. Void Elves are High Elves as well. We have 2 f***ing High Elf races in the game and you still keep on bickering.

The bolded is a total lie.

Alliance High elves are a thing that exist. Asking for a justification beyond that is bollocks. The request is simple and easy to understand and also clear crystalline as Caribbean waters.

High elves are not Blood elves.

'But Blood elves are High elves wah wah'. I don't care if you don't want to settle for such simple point. You disagreeing doesn't change the truth.

There is -not- an option to play what is part of the Alliance. No one can deny that with a straight face.

[Obelisk Kai]

He just used Orb of the Sin'dorei there. A Horde character can't use that tabard and mount.

Oh. So it's just a full armor trick for 5 minutes every 30 minutes.

Still a condescending 'demonstration'.

Did either of you actually read his post?

Did either of you actually look at his images?

He is playing a Void Elf, on the isle of Quel'Danas (which is neutral ground during the time period depicted which is why he isn't being attacked) wearing Silver Covenant type armor. So yeah, he can go to Stormwind quite easily wearing that get up.

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And if you followed the conversation here you'd see that I'm not arguing that the exact same scope of transformation happened to the blood elves. It's like you don't read my replies to you:

I get what you are arguing. I just don't give it credence because there is no evidence for it. The only thing that changed is eye colour, and as golden eyes proves that isn't a permanent change as the Orc's green skin was.

There is basis for it. My brother worked through his drug addiction withdrawal by starting to exercise regularly since group therapy wasn't enough for him.

? Drug addictions in the real world are caused by the body becoming dependant upon and craving real addictive substances. We are discussing a fictional addiction to magic.

But if you want in-game examples, there are none. But that does not mean it's not possible. We don't know every single high elf's backstory.

Finally. For someone desiring honesty in the conversation we finally have some from yourself. There is no evidence in game, merely a hypothetical you are plugging based on experiences we have no idea are even analogous to the situation facing the thalassian elves.

When the Warcraft encyclopedia was written and they discussed the addiction, they cited willpower and magical artefacts as the techniques used by the Alliance High Elves to deal with their addiction. Nothing at all about exercise which you think they might have covered there were it a genuine factor.

So, I feel quite within my rights at this point to dismiss the entire suggestion as headcanon.

Then you admit to hypocrisy and double-standards as you've shown that "faction identity" is something that "really matters" when other people ask for things that you have no interest in, but you're willing to discard it like yesterday's napkin when it benefits your ideas. Can't eat your cake and have it, dude.

No I am afraid not, I have always been very consistent in my stance that Blood Elves are High Elves. I do not consider Alliance High Elves, who mostly live in Dalaran anyways and are seemingly sitting this war out, as a major part of the Alliance. I consider them to be a traitorous grouping of a Horde race. Nothing that the Alliance High Elves have can or should be considered sacred or unique to them, and if they have a customization option that can expand the options available to Horde players, then that should be made available to Horde players at the earliest opportunity. Now if I were asking for Void Elf type hairstyles with tentacles, THEN I would be going too far and would be infringing on the faction divide.

https://playwarcraft3.com/en-us/

Scroll down to the Races section. Bam. Elves with green eyes. Looks like it didn't take "four years" to get green eyes.

That game has not been released yet, the game itself takes place before the Blood Elves learned of Illidan's teachings, and Illidan's teachings are confirmed as the source of the green eyes. In other words what we have here is an anachronism that will hopefully be corrected upon release.

"Inventing things" is the basis of story progression, even when retroactively adding things. The draenei are the biggest example of that, considering the majestic draenei we knew literally did not exist before TBC. All we knew as "draenei" are the ones we know today as "broken". And your "lore evidence" does work for squat. You're basically arguing fel magic doesn't change a person's body, despite countless examples of that happening in the game.

When did I say fel energy doesn't change a body? it changed Blood Elven eyes green. But that change is so minor, and demonstrably reversible, that I don't think it really counts. Blizzard after all has been extremely consistent in saying Blood Elves and High Elves are identical, and in game nobody has suggested Blood Elves somehow look different from when they were High Elves beyond that eye colour shift.

This passage is illuminating however in that you essentially admit you are calling for a retcon, to go back and pretend that the Blood Elves were changed by the fel to a far greater degree than they actually were so as to differentiate them from Alliance High Elves and therefore provide a more solid basis for an Alliance High Elf allied race.

That is profoundly unfair on Blood Elf players, to suggest the race they are playing should be changed in a retcon, shifted away from what it is now just so you can have Alliance High Elves feel that space.

As for the Draenei retcon, extreme as it was it worked because up until that point we hadn't met genuine uncorrupted Draenei. Their backstory was changed before they were added to the game. You will find that retconning a race people have been playing for over twelve years is going to be a vastly more difficult proposition than retconning lore that, up until the point of their introduction as a playable race, had only existed in a video game manual.

That doesn't mean more cannot be added.

Yes, as I pointed out above you are requesting a retcon to retroactively change Blood Elves so that they no longer fulfil the high elf ideal and thus create space for Alliance High Elves. I am going to go out on a limb here and suggest Blizzard isn't going to alter a race that is played by currently paying subscribers simply to appease the Alliance High Elf community who won't accept the Void Elf compromise. You know, because pleasing the few hundred in that community might not be worth pissing off the hundreds of thousands of Blood Elf players.

And this is such a dishonest argument to make since high elves resemble much closely a blood elf than a night elf in build. It was much easier, faster, and cheaper to simply give the blood elf model to high elves instead of making a specific model for them, since there was no real reason to do so since they are not a playable race.

They resemble the Blood Elves in build because they and the Blood Elves are the same race. It is the height of hypocrisy to suggest that is a dishonest argument, when your own implies that they would give Alliance High Elves their own model if they had the time. They had the time, they created Void Elves in that time.

"Basically kind of are". Words to remember. Also: more words to remember: "not all high elves are blood elves".

Blood Elves are High Elves. As to 'not all High Elves are Blood Elves'...who really cares beyond your community? The High Elves who are not Blood Elves made a political choice. That's the sole difference. It's not enough. In the past you have claimed it is enough but the thing is, that was again just you. You keep making suggestions and pushing them, but you never have evidence for them. At best you manage to put forward a point that is hypothetically possible because there is no evidence against it, but there is no evidence for it either. At worst you push your flawed hypotheses despite the evidence against because to discuss the evidence is to admit defeat. That is not a great position to be in for debate.

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I don't think this has a chance of happening anymore though, not because of High Elves mind you, but because of Void Elves. Playable Void Elves have blue eyes and as we know from the Allied Races and their "parent races", just because there is customization that an Allied Race has (Orc hairstyles/beards, Dwarven hairstyles/tattoos, Nightborne/elf hair color / eye color, HMT tattoos, LF Draenei hairstyles, etc) it doesn't mean the "parent race" gets access to those customizations as well.

Until you or anyone else can prove it, saying "As they are the same race, anything available to one should be available to the other." means nothing until Blizzard has given us examples of it. So far, there are none which makes the precedent more than likely these customizations are given to Allied Races to give them more differences from their "parent race".

It is entirely possible that Blood Elves will never get blue eyes. However, I don't regard eye colour as something major either. I would simply like the extra customization option for Blood Elves when they add a separate eye colour selector to the character creator.

I find that those in favour of Alliance High Elves are the ones extremely defensive regarding the blue eye colour, simply because it is the sole physical difference between Blood Elves and Alliance High Elves. But as golden eyes show, thalassian elf eye colour is mutable depending on circumstances. It can change, there is nothing permanent about it and so it is not a true mark of differentiation.

[Monster Hunter]

Oh. So it's just a full armor trick for 5 minutes every 30 minutes.

Still a condescending 'demonstration'.

It's all your getting for a very long time.

Blizz have made that pritty clear.

[Aldo Hawk]

Did either of you actually read his post?

Did either of you actually look at his images?

I did, and @DeicideUH pointed the mistake. Have you read our posts?

Also: https://gyazo.com/4bf0e5d8508473273811c7c37912d131 Pale ears and Silver Covenant tabard. Is using the orb.

He is playing a Void Elf, on the isle of Quel'Danas [snoop] wearing Silver Covenant type armor. So yeah, he can go to Stormwind quite easily wearing that get up.

Ok, he can go to Stormwind (already known btw). Still lacking all the essentials.

5 minutes in a 30 CD cooldown for a BLOOD ELF appearance and BLOOD ELF voicelines, and still having to stick with the VOID ELF classes and VOID ELF racials, world interaction and VOID ELF character. And also having to stick with a full body armor because the costume is super fragile, not being able to even replace more than the most shallow things.

(which is neutral ground during the time period depicted which is why he isn't being attacked)

You thinking that this was needed to be clarified just shows how misleading and misrepresent your posts are.

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It's all your getting for a very long time.

Blizz have made that pritty clear.

Anything to add? Or just snarky and substance-less comments?

[DeicideUH]

Take a void elf, put on a fitting transmog and there you go.

I don't pay the subscription to play make believe.

[Monster Hunter]

I did, and @DeicideUH pointed the mistake. Have you read our posts?

Also: https://gyazo.com/4bf0e5d8508473273811c7c37912d131 Pale ears and Silver Covenant tabard. Is using the orb.


Ok, he can go to Stormwind (already known btw). Still lacking all the essentials.

5 minutes in a 30 CD cooldown for a BLOOD ELF appearance and BLOOD ELF voicelines, and still having to stick with the VOID ELF classes and VOID ELF racials, world interaction and VOID ELF character. And also having to stick with a full body armor because the costume is super fragile, not being able to even replace more than the most shallow things.


You thinking that this was needed to be clarified just shows how misleading and misrepresent your posts are.

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Anything to add? Or just snarky and substance-less comments?

Just the truth.

Whats the point of adding anything else. Ions all ready said he disregards these threads now, so why keep adding hot air to a defeated cause?

[scubi666stacy]

The bolded is a total lie.

Alliance High elves are a thing that exist. Asking for a justification beyond that is bollocks. The request is simple and easy to understand and also clear crystalline as Caribbean waters.

High elves are not Blood elves.

'But Blood elves are High elves wah wah'. I don't care if you don't want to settle for such simple point. You disagreeing doesn't change the truth.

There is -not- an option to play what is part of the Alliance. No one can deny that with a straight face.

I just repeat: Blizzard continued the story of Quel'thalas first via Blood Elves, and then - after Allerias return and transformation - via Void Elves.

What is so hard to understand about that? It's an organic development.

Are you by chance someone who participated in the petition to rewrite the last season for GoT? This is just as ridiculous.

News for you: Sometimes, writers just GIVE UP on some characters, concepts and locations, and MOVE ON. I suggest, you do the same. If there is no more story to tell with a vehicle, no matter how much some die hard fans whine. It's of no use, so why bother?

[Obelisk Kai]

I did, and @DeicideUH pointed the mistake. Have you read our posts?

Also: https://gyazo.com/4bf0e5d8508473273811c7c37912d131 Pale ears and Silver Covenant tabard. Is using the orb.

Fair enough, he is indeed using the orb. However, the only way to determine that was to look at the one unobscured part of the body, the tips of the ears. A Void Elf in the same get up would be almost indistinguishable from a Blood/High Elf.

Ok, he can go to Stormwind (already known btw). Still lacking all the essentials.

5 minutes in a 30 CD cooldown for a BLOOD ELF appearance and BLOOD ELF voicelines, and still having to stick with the VOID ELF classes and VOID ELF racials, world interaction and VOID ELF character. And also having to stick with a full body armor because the costume is super fragile, not being able to even replace more than the most shallow things.

Well, yes, he would be a Void Elf, not a Blood/High Elf. If you wanted a traditional high elf you would have to play a Blood Elf on the Horde. Isn't it wonderful to have so much choice if you are a high elf fan? Traditional elf on one side, a clear variant on the other?

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I don't pay the subscription to play make believe.

Actually we all pay the subscription to play make believe, that is sort of the fundamental point of the hobby.

[Ielenia]

I am speaking about the logical, financial and logistical reasons for downgraded models of NPC which are not important and do not have a playable race counterpart to draw models from.

You misunderstand this and spin it to your intention. What a fine demagogue you are.

It's not about being a demagogue. It's about honesty and admitting your argument fits the high elves just as much. Kul'Tiras NPCs did not need their own model because they weren't playable and had a playable race counterpart to draw models from: the Stormwind humans. It's the exact same thing with high elves: they're not playable and have a playable race counterpart to draw models from: the Horde blood elves.

You are like this pigeon who happens to get something good by chance after doing a pirouette, and now repeating pirouettes over and over hoping to get some more.

And you are the guy without a real argument who instead resorts to insults and demeaning comments.

Blood Elves are High Elves.

But not all high elves are blood elves.

[Neverafter]

It's not about being a demagogue. It's about honesty and admitting your argument fits the high elves just as much. Kul'Tiras NPCs did not need their own model because they weren't playable and had a playable race counterpart to draw models from: the Stormwind humans. It's the exact same thing with high elves: they're not playable and have a playable race counterpart to draw models from: the Horde blood elves.

The only way I could see this whole High Elves being analogous to KulTiran's thing working is if there were a group of High Elves that had been separated from the rest of the population for a large enough amount of time and undergone some sort of transformation.

Before BFA, we only saw a handful of KulTiran's. Even in KulTiras, the "skinny" human model is used frequently. The muscular or "fat" KulTiran is used more for the "brutes" or guards of KulTiras, which makes sense given the idea of the harsh territory and strength, etc.

We see all of the known High Elves already. There hasn't been any great bodily differentiation between Blood Elves and High Elves aside from eye color which is minor and reversible. There would have to be some group of High Elves that had been absent from current Azeroth dealings to show up to make this analogy work. Whether it's the sheer strength of will to stave off addiction, exercise, feeding off crystals, being exiled for whatever reason near [demons, void, arcane ley lines, elemental planes, dragons, time travel, alternate dimensions, what have you], there would have to be some force to differentiate "these" High Elves from the High Elves we have seen in game already.

[Ielenia]

Did either of you actually read his post?

Did either of you actually look at his images?

He is playing a Void Elf, on the isle of Quel'Danas (which is neutral ground during the time period depicted which is why he isn't being attacked) wearing Silver Covenant type armor. So yeah, he can go to Stormwind quite easily wearing that get up.

Wow. Way to go and finally confirming what I've been saying for so long in this thread: people cannot tell the difference between a void elf and a blood elf without looking real hard and ignoring everything else around them.

You couldn't tell the difference between a void elf and a blood elf.

Look at the ears: they're pink, not purple.

I get what you are arguing. I just don't give it credence because there is no evidence for it.

Then you should go back and brush up on your WoW lore, because it's a hard canon fact that fel magic corrupts and transforms the body. To say there is no evidence for it is like claiming there is no evidence that Holy magic can heal people in the game or lore.

The only thing that changed is eye colour, and as golden eyes proves that isn't a permanent change as the Orc's green skin was.

It is permanent. It's just being undone. To day it's "not permanent" means it'd disappear on its own, and it's not the case here.

? Drug addictions in the real world are caused by the body becoming dependant upon and craving real addictive substances. We are discussing a fictional addiction to magic.

"This is not to say, however, that withdrawal from magic would leave the high elves unharmed. On the contrary, permanent mental or physical damage is possible."

So, yeah, magic withdrawal does have an effect on the body. Not to mention that entire section there backs up my claims that the high elves could have found a way to train their bodies to help deal with the symptoms of withdrawal.

Finally. For someone desiring honesty in the conversation we finally have some from yourself. There is no evidence in game, merely a hypothetical you are plugging based on experiences we have no idea are even analogous to the situation facing the thalassian elves.

Sorry, I'm "plugging" from canon sources, thankyouverymuch.

When the Warcraft encyclopedia was written and they discussed the addiction, they cited willpower and magical artefacts as the techniques used by the Alliance High Elves to deal with their addiction. Nothing at all about exercise which you think they might have covered there were it a genuine factor.

It says they found other ways and it's a fact that magic withdrawal affects the body.

So, I feel quite within my rights at this point to dismiss the entire suggestion as headcanon.

Except you can't because what I proposed is well within the rules of the game and backed up by precedents. And you don't get to accuse me of "headcanon" when you did the exact same thing with your repeated implications that the drust and the humans of Kul'Tiras interbred, despite absolutely zero evidence for that. Hell, even less evidence than my "so-called" headcanon about the fel and blood elves.

No I am afraid not

Of course you don't. Why should I expect anything different? No one who rationalizes things in the way of "it matters when it doesn't benefit me, it doesn't matter when it benefits me" never admit to being wrong.

When did I say fel energy doesn't change a body? it changed Blood Elven eyes green. But that change is so minor, and demonstrably reversible, that I don't think it really counts.

Of course it counts, because it shows how easily susceptible to fel magic the blood elf body is, if just by being around fel crystals changed their eye color.Not by consuming fel magic. Just by being somewhat close to those green crystals.

Blizzard after all has been extremely consistent in saying Blood Elves and High Elves are identical, and in game nobody has suggested Blood Elves somehow look different from when they were High Elves beyond that eye colour shift.

Which is the exact same case as Kul'Tiras. We had no reason to even think they'd look different,

This passage is illuminating however in that you essentially admit you are calling for a retcon, to go back and pretend that the Blood Elves were changed by the fel to a far greater degree than they actually were so as to differentiate them from Alliance High Elves and therefore provide a more solid basis for an Alliance High Elf allied race.

You know what else supports my theory? Blood elves could not be warriors when TBC came along. They could be paladins... but not warriors. And I always found that curious, since gnomes could. Only after Cataclysm Blizzard allowed BEs to be warriors. Fel magic having made their bodies weaker, lowering their constitution, would easily explain that. Would it be a retcon? A minor one, yes, but one that doesn't change squat the current lore and presence of the blood elves, and even helps explain inconsistencies of the past.

They resemble the Blood Elves in build because they and the Blood Elves are the same race.

So are Stormwind humans and Kul'Tiras humans.

It is the height of hypocrisy to suggest that is a dishonest argument, when your own implies that they would give Alliance High Elves their own model if they had the time. They had the time, they created Void Elves in that time.

The irony in those sentences is baffling, to the point I'm kinda surprised you didn't pick on it yourself. To say that they "had the time" is dishonest as all hell, considering high elves are not playable, and the void elves are nothing but blood elves who got "sunburn" from the void. Why would void elves look different from blood elves since: a) they come from blood elves; and b) they're an allied race, which at the time we knew were "reskins" of current existing races?

Blood Elves are High Elves.

But not all high elves are blood elves.

As to 'not all High Elves are Blood Elves'...who really cares beyond your community?

That's not an argument. This is you having nothing to say. "Who cares?" is not an argument. We care. And apparently so does Blizzard considering high elves continue to be featured in varying ways throughout the expansions.

The High Elves who are not Blood Elves made a political choice.

And a moral one, too.

You keep making suggestions and pushing them, but you never have evidence for them.

No, I do have evidence for them and I keep presenting them. You just keep handwaving them away, or just outright ignoring them.

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The only way I could see this whole High Elves being analogous to KulTiran's thing working is if there were a group of High Elves that had been separated from the rest of the population for a large enough amount of time and undergone some sort of transformation.

Before BFA, we only saw a handful of KulTiran's. Even in KulTiras, the "skinny" human model is used frequently. The muscular or "fat" KulTiran is used more for the "brutes" or guards of KulTiras, which makes sense given the idea of the harsh territory and strength, etc.

We see all of the known High Elves already. There hasn't been any great bodily differentiation between Blood Elves and High Elves aside from eye color which is minor and reversible. There would have to be some group of High Elves that had been absent from current Azeroth dealings to show up to make this analogy work. Whether it's the sheer strength of will to stave off addiction, exercise, feeding off crystals, being exiled for whatever reason near [demons, void, arcane ley lines, elemental planes, dragons, time travel, alternate dimensions, what have you], there would have to be some force to differentiate "these" High Elves from the High Elves we have seen in game already.

But here's the thing: the "fat" Kul'Tirans did not exist until BfA. Because they didn't need to exist. Making such unique models, animations and voice lines for a race that isn't playable and are basically humans would be a waste of resources. But then said race became playable, and Blizzard decided to make them different.

I am confident that if HEs become an allied race, they'll have only minor changes in comparison to BEs. But if they become a "full-fledged" race, they'll look different, and there are plenty of reasons and ways for that to happen.

[Thalassian Bob]

Oh. So it's just a full armor trick for 5 minutes every 30 minutes.

Still a condescending 'demonstration'.

You are correct that I was using the Orb of the Sin'dorei there for the full effect (and to tease just a little), but here's another pic of my mage standing with his zealously anti-Sin'dorei qt girlfriend in Dalaran:


(Forgive the image quality - I'm on my dying potato laptop today.)

Here, I'm not using the orb and my character still looks near as dammit to the real deal with the right armour and tabard showing allegiance and intent. Plus, having the high elf wayfarers visiting the void elf starting area pretty much gives you all the ammunition you need to imagine that your specific Ren'dorei is actually a high elf who believed that, with Alleria leading in the tutelage of fledgling void elves, harnessing the power of the void was a legitimate way for Alliance-aligned Thalassians to help their faction when they need all the power they can get.

There have been tons of high elves (including some aligned with the Alliance) who have harnessed risque powers or done questionable things to advance their goals. High elves like Summoner Nolric. (The Silver Covenant itself is a pretty nefarious organisation.)

The idea that all high elves who stayed loyal to the Alliance when Silvermoon pledged itself to the Horde all did so because they were repelled by the idea of extracting arcane energy from living things is based on one stupid passing line from a fan story (which is otherwise good) that was made canon. There are plenty of reasons - not all of them righteous or noble - why a high elf may have chosen to turn their backs on Quel'Thalas. Some of them become Horde-friendly bootleggers or pirates, others join cults or pledge themselves to different causes.

The most simple and powerful argument for a high elf pledging themselves to the Alliance over the Horde is their simply being unable to forget the actions of the Horde in the Second War and feeling that maintaining relations with a faction and peoples they've known for centuries makes more sense. Even if that faction hasn't always been kind to them.

Playing a Ren'dorei who used to be Quel'dorei, never a Sin'dorei, makes plenty of sense and I believe is a satisfying middle-ground for the immediate future for players who want to think of their characters as Quel'dorei.

[FlubberPuddy]

It is entirely possible that Blood Elves will never get blue eyes. However, I don't regard eye colour as something major either. I would simply like the extra customization option for Blood Elves when they add a separate eye colour selector to the character creator.

Oh I know, I was just pointing out the argument you were using is flawed. It's flawed because we have no precedent of it with any of the other existing Allied Races. Is it just that you consider eye color something minor but not hairstyles/facial hair/tattoos?

Because the argument that you used could be applied to other Allied Races and seen to not be working, that's all I am pointing out.

I find that those in favour of Alliance High Elves are the ones extremely defensive regarding the blue eye colour, simply because it is the sole physical difference between Blood Elves and Alliance High Elves. But as golden eyes show, thalassian elf eye colour is mutable depending on circumstances. It can change, there is nothing permanent about it and so it is not a true mark of differentiation.

Indeed, some people do. I don't think it would make sense for Blood Elves to get blue eyes since that is a regression of their story (which is focused on progression). But not just that, if Blizzard is saying that they released Void Elves to give "something like a Blood Elf" but more unique, then it would seem weird to make that gap closer between the two (Void Elves and Blood Elves) when the sentiment is they wanted something more different added to Alliance.

Eye color may not be a huge distinguishing feature, but it adds a difference. Just like with other Allied Races and the minor differences between their customization (hairstyles, accessory customization, facial hair, tattoos). Eye color might seem minor but it was "major enough" for Jeremy Feasel to include it as part of the Allied Races system.

"Do you have any plans for Allied Races after the Kul Tirans and Zandalari Trolls?

JF: I feel like Allied Races are an awesome addition to the game. You have seen us taking this system in a bunch of directions now, we kinda pieced it apart, we've added Allied races and then we said "hey, wait a minute, I like being a Dwarf!", so we added a Dwarf heritage armor set. We added that, then we thought about Blood Elves wanting golden eyes or Night Elves, what do they get? So they got different customization options. So we really like the different levels of player customizations that came out of this and we're definitely not done yet, but we don't have anything to announce today."

https://www.wowhead.com/news=288498/...ns-flying-in-n

That question is focused on Allied Races and he talks about how they're piecing the system apart and mentions Dwarf heritage armor and golden eyes for blood elves and what do night elves get, so they got eye color customization.

But I'm also a big proponent of "Blizzard can do whatever Blizzard wants" as we have seen them do with features like Transmog, Vicious mounts becoming account-wide, removal of PvP servers.

They are beholden to anything they say in the past until they don't want to be.

[Neverafter]

But here's the thing: the "fat" Kul'Tirans did not exist until BfA. Because they didn't need to exist. Making such unique models, animations and voice lines for a race that isn't playable and are basically humans would be a waste of resources. But then said race became playable, and Blizzard decided to make them different.

I am confident that if HEs become an allied race, they'll have only minor changes in comparison to BEs. But if they become a "full-fledged" race, they'll look different, and there are plenty of reasons and ways for that to happen.

I agree that there would be plenty of ways of making High Elves look different. I highlighted a few in my other post. The important distinction would be why? What reason would Blizzard have to make High Elves look any different? You said "fat" KulTirans did not exist until BfA, which is true. But KulTirans did exist. We only saw a small portion of the population, so saying that mainland KulTirans could have different characteristics is plausible. This isn't the same for High Elves.

There isn't some island somewhere full of High Elves that have been separated for hundreds of years. We have seen the major populations of High Elves. We know where they congregate. We can visit them in game. It is the complete opposite of KulTirans before BfA.