horde race analysis

[gurutikka]

Why have the night elves always appeared as a horde race to me? Since classic, they felt like they would have been horde. And whereas high elves/blood elves, seems like alliance race. Wouldn't night elves look better on horde aesthetically compared to the barbie doll anorexic skinny high/blood elves?

[Directionalk9]

Nah, you’re wrong.

The right answer is probably at WoW’s first development, they needed to have a “base of operations” for the factions on the less predominant continent. It made far more sense to give the Night Elves to the Alliance and Forsaken to the Horde.

However, I still disagree with your assessment that they look for feel more “Horde”, but that’s always going to be a subjective thought for everyone, regardless of the race make-up of the factions.

[Kyphael]

Because Blizzard was originally going to make night elves Horde and High Elves alliance, but then plans and shit happened. Night elves would have been way better in the Horde as a more feral race reminiscent to their WC3 heyday, and they were perfect buddies to the Tauren. The alliance exclusive race would have been paladin and horde exclusive race would have been druid with shamans available to both. And we would have never gotten the Void Elf ass pull and that God awful High Elf mega thread that just won't die.

[MatthiasVonTzeskagrad]

Because Blizzard was originally going to make night elves Horde and High Elves alliance, but then plans and shit happened. Night elves would have been way better in the Horde as a more feral race reminiscent to their WC3 heyday, and they were perfect buddies to the Tauren. The alliance exclusive race would have been paladin and horde exclusive race would have been druid with shamans available to both. And we would have never gotten the Void Elf ass pull and that God awful High Elf mega thread that just won't die.

Problem is, night Elves would have never get along with the rest of the Horde. Orcs killed their demigod, trolls are trolls, goblins don't give a crap about anything, and everyone knows they get perfectly along with undead. And as tauren are not isolated from other Horde races, like Forsaken and blood Elves were, and neither are the night Elves, they can't try and replicate the Forsaken effect.

[Hellspawn]

Problem is, night Elves would have never get along with the rest of the Horde. Orcs killed their demigod, trolls are trolls, goblins don't give a crap about anything, and everyone knows they get perfectly along with undead. And as tauren are not isolated from other Horde races, like Forsaken and blood Elves were, and neither are the night Elves, they can't try and replicate the Forsaken effect.

If you can fit blood elfs into the horde, you can fit in night elfs probably even easier. I don't see why isolating them would not work. The big difference would be that the story in Kalimdor would be very different...

In the end I think they don't fit well Horde or Alliance... just like Forsaken.

[MatthiasVonTzeskagrad]

If you can fit blood elfs into the horde, you can fit in night elfs probably even easier. I don't see why isolating them would not work. The big difference would be that the story in Kalimdor would be very different...

In the end I think they don't fit well Horde or Alliance... just like Forsaken.

Blood Elves got fit thanks to Forsaken, and thanks to having no other original connection with the horde races. At that time, both BEs and Forsaken shared a value system somewhat similar. You can't separate NEs and Tauren from orcs and trolls, wich means the conflict would rise even before they consider something like joining...
I mean, at this time it wouldn't really matter because it would not even be the biggest asspull they come up with, but at that moment it would have been an abhorrent precedent.

[sam86]

why ppl forget that nelf hated both humans and orcs equally during wc3 ? also why make a big deal of orcs 'killing' cenarius when he can be rezzed whenever he wants too?
nelf fit horde as much as they fit alliance, which was pre-wow zero btw, nelf were a 3rd faction in wc3 for a reason, at least forsaken are renegade undead so the scourge faction stayed faction in wow

[gurutikka]

why ppl forget that nelf hated both humans and orcs equally during wc3 ? also why make a big deal of orcs 'killing' cenarius when he can be rezzed whenever he wants too?
nelf fit horde as much as they fit alliance, which was pre-wow zero btw, nelf were a 3rd faction in wc3 for a reason, at least forsaken are renegade undead so the scourge faction stayed faction in wow

if NE were Horde, Alliance could never touch Kalimdor lol.

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Blood Elves got fit thanks to Forsaken, and thanks to having no other original connection with the horde races. At that time, both BEs and Forsaken shared a value system somewhat similar. You can't separate NEs and Tauren from orcs and trolls, wich means the conflict would rise even before they consider something like joining...
I mean, at this time it wouldn't really matter because it would not even be the biggest asspull they come up with, but at that moment it would have been an abhorrent precedent.

I feel as if the Tauren would mediate NE into horde if it happened in W3.

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Problem is, night Elves would have never get along with the rest of the Horde. Orcs killed their demigod, trolls are trolls, goblins don't give a crap about anything, and everyone knows they get perfectly along with undead. And as tauren are not isolated from other Horde races, like Forsaken and blood Elves were, and neither are the night Elves, they can't try and replicate the Forsaken effect.

They get along with the Tauren though.

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If you can fit blood elfs into the horde, you can fit in night elfs probably even easier. I don't see why isolating them would not work. The big difference would be that the story in Kalimdor would be very different...

In the end I think they don't fit well Horde or Alliance... just like Forsaken.

I just made a NE DH and I have to say, they would look more badass on Horde than Alliance imo.

[Zandalariprelate]

Because Blizzard was originally going to make night elves Horde and High Elves alliance, but then plans and shit happened. Night elves would have been way better in the Horde as a more feral race reminiscent to their WC3 heyday, and they were perfect buddies to the Tauren. The alliance exclusive race would have been paladin and horde exclusive race would have been druid with shamans available to both. And we would have never gotten the Void Elf ass pull and that God awful High Elf mega thread that just won't die.

Literally the world would had been a better place

[Alex86el]

In their early lore Nightelves are described to be very savage and brutal, not like they made them in the game.


And have you seen the very first WoW concept board from 2000?

There would have been three factions.
Though it shows no names for them.

Humans, Dwarves, High Elves.
Orcs, Tauren, Night Elves.
Undead, Naga, and "Dark Elves"(?)

Darnassus was on the east coast of Kalimdor, and named Kalidar. Weird stuff.
There was Nazjatar, Undermine, Kultiras, Quel'Thalas, and many more areas.
And at one point Uldum was a huge seperate continent south of a much smaller Kalimdor.


there's also some interesting stuff about classes too.
like runemasters and necromancers.
as well as certain class-race combinations becoming "hero classes".

of course, all that got changed until release.

[gurutikka]

Literally the world would had been a better place

How exactly it would be a "better" place? Kalimdor would be 100% Horde that's the only problem and Alliance couldn't touch it.

[Feanoro]

I ought to bookmark this thread for the next time someone bitches that Alliance somehow wants Horde races. Amazing how those posters never remember all the times Horde has wanted Kal'dorei.

[Friendlyimmolation]

I ought to bookmark this thread for the next time someone bitches that Alliance somehow wants Horde races. Amazing how those posters never remember all the times Horde has wanted Kal'dorei.

When there is a megathread about people being unable to accept they didn’t get night elves for over ten years then you’ll have a valid complaint.

[Feanoro]

When there is a megathread about people being unable to accept they didn’t get night elves for over ten years then you’ll have a valid complaint.

1) I'm not complaining, just noting hypocrisy.

2) Without going in that thread, I presume the core argument is something around HEs being in the WC1-2 era Alliance, and the BC asspull to give Horde a pretty race. If so, the argument is more that an Alliance race went Horde and barely fits, which I would agree with.

3) Personally don't really care for the anorexic elves, whatever name they have this week.

[Extrakt]

I always felt like NE and undead should've been neutral races. Open to trade for other races but with a lenghty rep/quest grind.
Perhaps with High elves for alliance and ogres for the horde.

With time, the Alliance wants to secure the eastern kingdoms and wages war on the evil undead. This is where the undead falls on the horde for aid. Fearfull for the hordes reaction, the night elves ask for a meeting with the alliance. The Horde, afraid for NE intentions for allying with the alliance. Pre emptively ambushes the meeting, making sure the NE actually fall in line with the Alliance.

[Wangming]

In their early lore Nightelves are described to be very savage and brutal, not like they made them in the game.


And have you seen the very first WoW concept board from 2000?

There would have been three factions.
Though it shows no names for them.

Humans, Dwarves, High Elves.
Orcs, Tauren, Night Elves.
Undead, Naga, and "Dark Elves"(?)

Darnassus was on the east coast of Kalimdor, and named Kalidar. Weird stuff.
There was Nazjatar, Undermine, Kultiras, Quel'Thalas, and many more areas.
And at one point Uldum was a huge seperate continent south of a much smaller Kalimdor.


there's also some interesting stuff about classes too.
like runemasters and necromancers.
as well as certain class-race combinations becoming "hero classes".

of course, all that got changed until release.

This does sound awesome. I tried finding more info but Kalidar was the only one I could confirm. Can you like.....find that old concept board?

[ravenmoon]

NElves always felt their own people, their own world. What yous aw in Wc3 was just a portion of all there is tot he night elves, blizzard would soon release WotA trilogy which was written while WC3 was in the development explaining the WC3 manual history of the night elves and why they are in that long vigil forest state in WC3.

They are closer to humans than orcs, but they have nothing in common with either. Like the Draenei, they are an advanced civilization race, just in their case, after their cataclysmic event, the sundering, they don't have to move worlds, but they can neither rebuild because their magics can't be used to stop the legion from returning. The legion that returns in WC3 and changes the way that group has lived for the last 10k years again.

So there is much more to night elves than thinking them savage and primitive (and thus fitting the horde) , they have high civilization and sophisticated aspects (as the nightborne show), they have rural, basic aspects as the druids show, but they also have other thigns the sentinels, priestesses and demon hunters show.

They're kinda their own world, their own unique history, that really stand out as their own thing. THe way they do magecraft, priestly religion, and forestry is different from any other race in wow.

Their magecraft if dominated by arcane moon and star magic, night based too
Their priestly religion is also dominated by the moon and stars
Their druidic forestry has that moon/stars element to it, but is also heavily forest magic related.
They do have rangers, hunters, warriors too - but they are pre-dominantly female where normal society humans/orcs/thalassians are male

Finally this is all in the setting of a night world, with their own unique history, challenges and bestiary - like sabers, chimera, hyppogriffs, furbolg and ofc adversaries like Naga, Satyr and the legion ofc.

It's a whole set of its own, it connects to the eastern kingdom via the blood elves who are descendants from one of their group of highborne, and will hold similar things to the night elves' highborne and arcane lot, their rangers and hunters too will find some similairities with their thalassian kin, and as their Thalassian kin are naturally tied to humans, it just feels that they fit better with humans, given their lawful good nature too. Demon hunters do offer something radically different to the rest of the type of night elves, but it just serves to make them quite diverse themselves.
@gurutikka In conclusion, I must disagree with you.

[Syegfryed]

Another elf veiled thread, lore forum now elf posts now with a bit of other things, jesus

And no, its "fine" the way it is, BE are way better than NE overall for horde theme

I ought to bookmark this thread for the next time someone bitches that Alliance somehow wants Horde races. Amazing how those posters never remember all the times Horde has wanted Kal'dorei.

you are comparing one person,and he basically said for the elves to swap, so i pretty sure he want more He on the alliance than NE on horde.

[Villager720]

Because Blizzard was originally going to make night elves Horde and High Elves alliance, but then plans and shit happened. Night elves would have been way better in the Horde as a more feral race reminiscent to their WC3 heyday, and they were perfect buddies to the Tauren. The alliance exclusive race would have been paladin and horde exclusive race would have been druid with shamans available to both. And we would have never gotten the Void Elf ass pull and that God awful High Elf mega thread that just won't die.

Where’s this coming from?

[ravenmoon]

In their early lore Nightelves are described to be very savage and brutal, not like they made them in the game.

They were NEVER described as very savage, nor very brutal. Ever in official lore.

Chris Metzen once released one of his earlier concept art on night elves where he toyed with the idea of them being primitive and savage, but that's not what they went for in the end, they went for the highly advanced dark elf civilization, that was forced into a forest elf era due to the demonic legion invasion destroying their civilization and the sundering ripping apart the world. Their 10k year vigil had to sacrifice the use of their arcane magic to prevent the demons.. this is how the forest elf side develops.

The night elves are designed to be the best of both the dark elves and the forest elves from other fantasy depictions, and they were planned to be developed as that from the outset, their new beginning happening after WC3.

THey were never ever describved as very savage and brutal in official lore.

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@Alex86el I see it very often, but I have to keep pointing out, that the pure forest elf, with savage brutality was never the ngiht elves main MO in wow. The night elves instead were designed as broad diverse people that were very ancient and as such would have many things to them covering a broad range.. and we see that.

We have: highly advanced arcane users civilization minded - in the highborne, moongurad, nightborne
WE have: Deeply nature attuned druids that walk the emerald dream and protect the balance of nature in the druids
we have: a loyal faithful priest elite that follow an ancient religion of a moon goddess that wields arcane magic
we have: a female militia of warrior hunter priests called Sentinels and Wardens who both fight and police - they can be fierce, but they're maidens
We have: Edgy dark fel wielding scarred demon hunters who seek to avenge the destruction of their original civilization by wiping out the Legion at all costs

Of all these, only the Sentinels, Demon hunters, Wardens, Moonguard and Ferals have been shown to be savage and brutal. The rest are actually quite peaceful, wise and either sophisticated or having an intelligent simplicity that belies great wisdom.