Is the current Benthic gear horrible game design?

[KaPe]

Since mythic is only done by less than 1% of the population, it seems that heroic/slightly below gear IS rewarding. Mythic and high rated PVP should be in a league of its own. Why is heroic raid gear not enough for casuals killing trash in timeless isle?

How many players do you think WoW actually has? Check out wowprogress stats - there are thousands of guilds raiding mythic, each of those is at least 20 people, usually more. Unless WoW still has 10 million subscribers, that number is significantly higher than mere 1%.

[clevin]

Heroic equivalent gear is strong enough reward for doing world content but if it takes ages and ages to farm where your brain explodes. Heroic is easily puggable and I see no reason why world content shouldn't be able to reach around heroic. But why should any gear from braindead activities in the world = gear from the hardest group content in the game that requires a scheduled 20 man group? High rated PVP and mythic raid gear should only be achievable from that content and titanforged world quest gear should be locked below.

Why do you care?

[Redecle]

Except the fact grinding for gear is a core mechanic in action RPGs, primary means of progressing your character. Remove gear from wow and what's left there? Poor story, sense of community in shambles, imbalanced pvp... Well I guess you can collect pets, mounts, toys and transmogs...

Oh i must have it confused then...
I thought actual ROLE PLAYING was a core mechanic of a ROLE PLAYING game.

What about the rpgs that don't have gear progression, you know the majority of RPGs, everything between from tabletop to mmo, but instead you put stats and skill points on your character not change your clothes every time you want to get stronger. WoW is one of the few exceptions were stats are gear based instead of character based, that already makes no sense what so ever when you stop thinking about it. Where the treadmill is "mandatory" creation to keep the player occupied? Cause they don't rp, create stories or do communities or whatever you're supposed to do in rpgs, it's all just "i want more loot".

[GreenJesus]

How many players do you think WoW actually has? Check out wowprogress stats - there are thousands of guilds raiding mythic, each of those is at least 20 people, usually more. Unless WoW still has 10 million subscribers, that number is significantly higher than mere 1%.

There aren't "thousands" there are two thousand or less guilds raiding mythic... Champions of light doesn't count. It is literally easier than normal fights. I'll draw the line at Opulence (which is being extremely generous). If a guild hasn't killed opulence at this point they aren't really raiding mythic. Only 1600 guilds have killed Opulence. So that is 32,000 characters. 32,000/2,000,000 (around what playerbase could be) is still 1.6% (a bit more than 1% I'll admit).

https://www.wowprogress.com/pve/us/rating.tier23

Scroll down to bottom.

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Why do you care?

Good point. I don't play WoW anymore so why do I care? Because entitled casuals/bads think they should be able to get everything by farming easy content solo making the thrill of harder group content more dull.

[Syegfryed]

is very luck based and it take tons of time to upgrade, some of the effects are shit, like increasing your size in nazjatar, like rly

and think they nerfed the itens coming with socket, cause i opened like 30 to get gloves with socket gem

and the azerite traits are the same, and they are crap for some classes/specs

i think its balanced enough for that ilv, i like "fix" things, like a ilv cap, so to me its pretty ok

the problem i think its not having some sort of benthic weapon.

[clevin]

...making the thrill of harder group content more dull.

If you or others lose the thrill of raiding mythic content because a handful of highly dedicated farmers have gear that's good, that's on you and those others. But then, you're not there for the thrill of the experience if you feel this way... you're there to boast and this just nicks your 'I'm special' armor.

[KaPe]

There aren't "thousands" there are two thousand or less guilds raiding mythic... Champions of light doesn't count. It is literally easier than normal fights. I'll draw the line at Opulence (which is being extremely generous). If a guild hasn't killed opulence at this point they aren't really raiding mythic. Only 1600 guilds have killed Opulence. So that is 32,000 characters. 32,000/2,000,000 (around what playerbase could be) is still 1.6% (a bit more than 1% I'll admit).

How about you use global stats instead of US? There's 4500 kills, not including Asian guilds, so that's over 5000 easily. Which means >100k players - so unless the total population is 10 millions, that's more than 1%. If we go with 2 mils, that's 5%, which is a fairly decent amount considering mythic's intended exclusivity.

[Captain Douchebag]

wow you seem triggered, i showed you my research above, but you seem to pretend i did 0 research into the martter
maybe mate you just need to calm the fuck down?

You simmed one item for one spec and decided that was enough proof to validate this nonsense:

none of this benthic gear is BIS

What you did barely qualifies as "doing research". At best you did 0,1% of research on the matter, and it's outright laughable that you thought that was good enough.

[Thetruth1400]

doesn't benthic only go to 430ish?

Benthic armor caps at 425, which is 5 ilvl's under Heroic ilvl gear from the raid.

It's basically Heroic ilvl gear, since Blizzard says that "15 ilvls need to be between tiers to feel rewarding." and this leans towards Heroic over Normal gear.

It's really a poorly designed system. You can easily get the items up to near Heroic quality with very little investment, which makes M+ and Normal (and to a degree Heroic) raiding near pointless.

As the OP says, having the items be BiS, except for Mythic level raiding, is a really shitty design decision. It's a trivial experience and commitment reward that basically turns into a must have because of poor design.

[Zoldor]

Something overlooked is this gear is BiS for EP only. You aren't going to wear it in M+, you aren't going to wear it for the next tier. This simple fact is being greatly ignored. Yes, the gear is BiS for EP and EP only. Even with the socket, Mythic raid gear is what you're going to need for the next tier and for M+.

I have no problem with them actually keeping the open World relevant for a few slots for one tier. oh and you need 880 pearls to upgrade 4 pieces the entire way. To do an entire gear set, lets just say, you're going to farming A LOT of pearls. But hey, whine more about a system that gives about 4 BiS pieces only useful in a single raid. Oh, the sky is falling and Blizzard is just giving away gear and taking away Mythic raiding's glory.

[Thrif]

Yes, because not getting anything for most people during entire raid (sometimes multiple weeks, in extreme cases months) was much better than current system.

I know you're being sarcastic, but yes, it was. At least with that system items were treasured and valued and could last you for a very long time. Not saying it was a perfect system, or that it was enjoyable spending consecutive raids not getting a single item, but imho it was indeed way better than what we have now.

I am pretty sure that players on average spend way less time in the game compared to vanilla. If you play 4 hours every evening you'll get showered with loot, but for those who play an hour every other day (probably the majority) it might feel just right. These players would have nothing to look forward to in their play session and quit instead of getting a new item every two weeks or something.

Well, that's a good point. That would be a hit the already dwindling population wouldn't handle very well.

One might wonder why they designed a mmorpg around people who doesn't have time to play a mmorpg in the first place, but that's for another thread. It's definitely been done and reversing it would probably be impossible at this point, or at least definitely not something blizz are interested in.

[Super Kami Dende]

It's never ok for gear from content that can be done by a blind monkey to outclass gear from the hardest content in the game. It's not about being "buttmad", its basic concepts of game design that Blizzard is completely failed at with this patch.

You are entitled to your wrong opinion.

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But why should world questers get the best gear in the game anyway if they aren't doing the hardest content? What do they need the gear for?

1. They aren't getting the Best gear. They are getting a few bits and pieces. It still requires doing the most difficult content to get the full set up of best gear.
2. Why should you care if others have pixels in a Videogame.
3. What do you need gear for? If you only want the best gear to drop from the hardest content then you should be a good enough player that you cleared said best content with shitty gear to GET the best gear. thus making that gear irrelevant anyway if you could clear it without it.

Stop acting so entitled about a video game. It's pathetic.

[Jester Joe]

lets compare my 425 benthic boots with a socket to the 445 boots from mythic azshara


oh look the mythic boots are abit better, but what is this they have a special effect not counted in the DPS!

Even with a socket.



Literally the smallest of chances to even get that.

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Why not jump into the warlock discord now, and ask if any Benthic pieces are bis? Or the druid discord? Hunter discord? Go ask the top players you can find anywhere.

Probably not the best area to check right now, since the Affliction one says -
'Benthic Gear is too low ilvl to compete with mythic loot.'

[Varitok]

That's the problem. For many dps specs it is THE best gear basically making any form of challenging content like mythic+ or mythic raiding obsolete. But hey, at least casuals are happy.

Yeah, We are. Casuals are 90% of the game, people have to remember that. M+ is pretty cancerous and brings out the worst of the community with it's rush and blame oriented timer.

[Alvito]

i expect 425 pieces that are better than 445+ items to get nerfed before mythic week.

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one that isnt likely to go away anytime soon. you have to have ilvl gains every tier or people complain. It happened before (in ToS i believe. they had to hotfix upgrade the gear because people yelled and screamed)

They are going to have to gut things on belts into the ground. Even a 1 or 2% gain in damage is far more than you get from 20 item levels on an item with so few stats. They were at least smart with some of the extra features to not say how much they do just that they do something or more damage allowing them to alter stuff behind the scenes and not piss off the masses.

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Changes will inevitably be made to the benthic pieces. Blizzard doesn't let degenerate stuff like this stay for long. That's why I would wait until mythic week to get benthic pieces. If they don't get nerfed by then you will at least get some use from them.

I know I have the ones I would upgrade and are just sitting on them waiting to upgrade them once raiding is going.

[Doffen]

Benthic gear is good for those the gear is aimed towards. Can get some competetive pieces, but that you could in other expansions too.

It will take ages before anyone get "full" benthic gear, each item costs 100 pearls to upgrade to 425. It's progression for non-raiding players and alts, nothing bad with it.

[Indil]

none of this benthic gear is BIS
the effects are so minor and they are 20 ilvl lower then mythic gear
yes they come garunteed with a socket, but that is also the issue of mythic gear can have socket and titanforge.

the effects of the gear itself is extremly minor
the "3% extra crit damage" only increases your dps by about 0.3% over a piece of the exact same stats, socket, and ilvl.

Please do some research before being a keyboard warrior, classic mmochampion casual

[Zaridey]

Probably not the best area to check right now, since the Affliction one says -
'Benthic Gear is too low ilvl to compete with mythic loot.'

"A couple Benthic slots are worth try to get socketed versions of and are better than base mythic loot.
Wrists: Waveblade Farseer's Bindings (single target frost damage proc)
Waist: Shirakess Cinch (2% increased damage to aberrations including 2 TEP bosses)
Boots: Akana's Reefstrider Soles (3% additional crit damage)"

From the FAQ page for Affliction from the warlock discord...

[ramayana1423]

You are entitled to your wrong opinion.

Going to laugh pretty hard when these items are all inevitably nerfed and my wrong opinion is proven completely right.

[BeepBoo]

This could make people go out of their way to the world to farm for that.

This is precisely what I dont want to do. I want to raidlog or have easily farmable, FAST ACQUIRED sources like old dungeon gear or crafted BOEs that were BIS like vanilla. Or just straight raidlog like wrath.

Reason? The rest of the game sucks. At baseline, manipulating a character in wow isn't fun. As a result, any activity that poses no or minimal danger is also not fun. For the combat to become fun, you have to either add movement and reaction or other abilities that dynamically affect outcomes, such as CC. OR you have to have epeen competitions that give adrenaline for doing well versus others.

Until they fix that, going out into the world as a necessity for getting BIS is just going to push me further towards quitting. I'm already half way there due to islands and emissaries being the best source for neck levels and AP. Now MORE bis comes from it? Fed up.