Is the current Benthic gear horrible game design?

[munkeyinorbit]

There aren't "thousands" there are two thousand or less guilds raiding mythic... Champions of light doesn't count. It is literally easier than normal fights. I'll draw the line at Opulence (which is being extremely generous). If a guild hasn't killed opulence at this point they aren't really raiding mythic. Only 1600 guilds have killed Opulence...

Hahahahaha.

"I DON'T LIKE THE NUMBERS SO I AM GOING TO MAKE THEM UP UNTIL THEY AGREE WITH WHAT I AM SAYING." I especially like the reasoning. "It's LITERALLY easier than normal fights." I wonder how Blizzard messed it up and made Mythic Champs easier than normal Champions.

Classic MMO-C. It gets me every time. The pure garbage that people come up with to support their view and what is worse, this is a supposed ex player here. A fucking expert no less. These people are the real reason that the game is not very good anymore. They sit there on unemployment spamming a fan site of a game they don't even like just to cause trouble. And for what? To ease the guilt they feel for leaving. It is just pathetic really. The player base doesn't miss you. It's time to put the keyboard away and let it go.

[solvexx]

Almost every spec has 1 or more benthic pieces that are BiS in the upcoming raid (Balance has like 4 items that are BiS from benthic gear). With the current design you can basicly get several BiS pieces that are equal or higher than Mythic loot level in terms of dps before the raid even opens. That is, if you are a lucky. It feels like they doubled down on the RNG this time and I am still surprised strong items like these dont have reduced secondaries (like the plate hands or plate legs from CoS).

Do you expect changes made to these items?

Suggestions on how to fix it:
1. Remove socket
2. Disable effect in the raid

Small edit:
One could argue that an item titanforging from Normal to Mythic levels is fine. On average the Mythic raider will have a much higher chance to get better gear than the Normal raider. However for Benthic gear its different, both the Normal raider and the Mythic raider will have the same chance to get the best available gear for the The Eternal Palace in some slots.

Equal to mythic? Mythic is 445.. what are you on about..

[MoanaLisa]

Good point. I don't play WoW anymore so why do I care? Because entitled casuals/bads think they should be able to get everything by farming easy content solo making the thrill of harder group content more dull.

Entitlement works both directions. There are plenty of people who think they should get to decide what sort of reward other players should receive. Most of those insist that solo content is easy which might be true for them and not true for others. If a player is punching above his/her weight on difficulty they should be rewarded for that. Half of everyone is below average. Blizzard needs to keep them around too.

[Marrilaife]

Oh i must have it confused then...
I thought actual ROLE PLAYING was a core mechanic of a ROLE PLAYING game.

Oh, you mean sitting semi naked in Goldshire Inn on Moonguard? Sorry, that's not very interesting to anyone except Moonguard crowd.

What about the rpgs that don't have gear progression, you know the majority of RPGs, everything between from tabletop to mmo, but instead you put stats and skill points on your character not change your clothes every time you want to get stronger. WoW is one of the few exceptions were stats are gear based instead of character based, that already makes no sense what so ever when you stop thinking about it.

WOW, Diablo, Destiny and a lot of other games have progression based on gear. If wow had progression based on something else, then we'd care about that something else. But it's gear based at level cap since vanilla, and hasn't changed ever.

We look forward with anticipation to the best guilds in the world getting through the mythic versions of the new raid first day.

You mean the 5-10 guilds that are playing this game for "e-sports"? Yeah, they can play even if there's no reward attached except "world first" and unofficial leaderboard. Now what about everyone else who actually wish the raid to be rewarding gear wise, because they are doing it for the sense of character progression and not twitch.tv viewership. Prime reason why tons of guilds skipped mythic crucible was exactly that, tuned around "e-sports" crowd and giving unrewarding loot.

[Archmage Alodi]

Getting 1 piece of bis loot from outdoor content seems just fine to me.

[Marrilaife]

Equal to mythic? Mythic is 445.. what are you on about..

Found another believer of "ilvl is king". Wish you were right.

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Getting 1 piece of bis loot from outdoor content seems just fine to me.

How about 3 or 4?

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I wonder how Blizzard messed it up and made Mythic Champs easier than normal Champions.

They made them easier than heroic Conclave though. I miss Emerald Nightmare when heroic was actually easier than mythic Nythendra, and vice versa, mythic was actually a step up from heroic. Having people pugging mythic Taloc before killing heroic Zul and mythic Champions before heroic Conclave shows how bad is the tuning of content. Gosh, even Skorpyron was more challenging than these 2.

[Emerald Archer]

wow you seem triggered, i showed you my research above, but you seem to pretend i did 0 research into the martter
maybe mate you just need to calm the fuck down?

The triggered response doesn't work when it's clearly you just dodging my request for a link to a sim where you simmed bracers. You showed a very selective sim that proved 1 out of 4 options weren't bis for you.

Though seeing as you only sim for 27k on your main, my assumption that you were a good raider was clearly wrong. You have no good gear, guess I will lower how seriously I take your posts now.

[GreenJesus]

Hahahahaha.

"I DON'T LIKE THE NUMBERS SO I AM GOING TO MAKE THEM UP UNTIL THEY AGREE WITH WHAT I AM SAYING." I especially like the reasoning. "It's LITERALLY easier than normal fights." I wonder how Blizzard messed it up and made Mythic Champs easier than normal Champions.

Classic MMO-C. It gets me every time. The pure garbage that people come up with to support their view and what is worse, this is a supposed ex player here. A fucking expert no less. These people are the real reason that the game is not very good anymore. They sit there on unemployment spamming a fan site of a game they don't even like just to cause trouble. And for what? To ease the guilt they feel for leaving. It is just pathetic really. The player base doesn't miss you. It's time to put the keyboard away and let it go.

Blizzard messed it up royally. I'm serious that Mythic champions is easier than Normal jaina. And I'm not on unemployment.. You seem to be really upset. Calm down dude.

[Emerald Archer]

Probably not the best area to check right now, since the Affliction one says -
'Benthic Gear is too low ilvl to compete with mythic loot.'

What are you even talking about? The affliction discord channel has PINNED,

"A couple Benthic items appear to be better than base mythic gear at 425 without socket and are worth trying to get socketed and upgraded. Recommended method is to buy items for these slots until you get the desired item with a socket before upgrading them further; you can also farm pearls and buy the items on alts and send them to your main or vice versa for additional chanced at a socket. You are unlikely to replace these without a 445+ (Mythic TEP) socketed item in the same slot."

Where on earth are you reading that it's too low? Or are you just flat out lying?

[Jester Joe]

"A couple Benthic slots are worth try to get socketed versions of and are better than base mythic loot.
Wrists: Waveblade Farseer's Bindings (single target frost damage proc)
Waist: Shirakess Cinch (2% increased damage to aberrations including 2 TEP bosses)
Boots: Akana's Reefstrider Soles (3% additional crit damage)"

From the FAQ page for Affliction from the warlock discord...

What are you even talking about? The affliction discord channel has PINNED,

"A couple Benthic items appear to be better than base mythic gear at 425 without socket and are worth trying to get socketed and upgraded. Recommended method is to buy items for these slots until you get the desired item with a socket before upgrading them further; you can also farm pearls and buy the items on alts and send them to your main or vice versa for additional chanced at a socket. You are unlikely to replace these without a 445+ (Mythic TEP) socketed item in the same slot."

Where on earth are you reading that it's too low? Or are you just flat out lying?

lol.

Both of you, this is really simple.





At least check before you accuse.

[FelPlague]

Oh, good to know. Im gonna skip the benthic gear and will just kill mythic azshara for the boots. When will he open? I hope I can zerg her at first week!

i mean there is mythic boots far earlier in the raid but again "BIS" is BIS so yes something may be easier to get then another, but unless its the strongest its not BIS, but thats talking about the boots, aparently after going through ALL the benthicc items, the bracers and gloves are very good possibly BIS for my spec, but not by a ton.

[Emerald Archer]

lol.

Both of you, this is really simple.





At least check before you accuse.

They themselves posted that the only thing changed in that edit was an upgrade to the Poen's gloves, because procs are being taken from dmg procs into healing procs.

But ok.

[FelPlague]

Even with a socket.



Literally the smallest of chances to even get that.

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Probably not the best area to check right now, since the Affliction one says -
'Benthic Gear is too low ilvl to compete with mythic loot.'

interesting, guess thats different for affi for demo the boots are trraaaaaash.
but the gloves and bracers after going through every benthicc item seems to be quite good.

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You simmed one item for one spec and decided that was enough proof to validate this nonsense:



What you did barely qualifies as "doing research". At best you did 0,1% of research on the matter, and it's outright laughable that you thought that was good enough.

i tested a few random items, but i did not test them all, there turns out to be TWO items out of what 18 of them? that are good enough to be better then mythic gear for me.

[Tang0]

Can someone please clarify, since I'm a little bit confused.

So some Benthic pieces with sockets are BiS for some classes. And mythic raiders themselves are bitching about them having an easier way of obtaining a BiS item in some slots, bypassing the random nature of drop, TF and socket rng? They would still have to raid, to populate other slots with their respective BiS items.

What seems to be the problem here? It's not like you can deck yourself in all benthic gear and have no need to do mythic raiding.

[burek]

What seems to be the problem here? It's not like you can deck yourself in all benthic gear and have no need to do mythic raiding.

There isn't an actual problem here. The ones who are whining the most don't even play the game anymore and are just trolling as usual.

[Gaidax]

Can someone please clarify, since I'm a little bit confused.

So some Benthic pieces with sockets are BiS for some classes. And mythic raiders themselves are bitching about them having an easier way of obtaining a BiS item in some slots, bypassing the random nature of drop, TF and socket rng? They would still have to raid, to populate other slots with their respective BiS items.

What seems to be the problem here? It's not like you can deck yourself in all benthic gear and have no need to do mythic raiding.

TBH it's not an OMG huge problem there, it's definitely not Arcanocrystal meme levels, but it is a bit strange to have your BiS come from content like this. I'd say the issue that is legit is cases where said benthic gear is not only better than M.Azshara drops, but better by a mile for some specs. I think it's a bit too much there.

I, personally, won't be bawling like a child rolling on a floor over having to farm socketed crit boots, but I think it's fair to point out that maybe they are a bit too good there and quite honestly could use a little nerf, just to make alternative M.Azhsara gear a bit more appealing.

I, also, am not quite sold on idea that for some spec 4 benthic items being BiS, I think it's a tad too much considering the availablilty. IMO, these items simply should not have been able to roll socket, because that is what pushes them over the top there. OR they simply should have been similar to CoS items, where there is a drawback that is either -stats or some inconvenient penalty.

[Gatto]

It is indeed.

At first, it seemed that they were trying to return to "non gamble equipment", with flat ilvl, no random sockets and no random extra stats.
But then, when it came out, it was something definitely mandatory.

You can still decide to use your normal 425 ilvl ofc, but the difference between a you and a dude with socketed equip ( maybe with the right stats and passives ) will be neat.
Once again it's mandatory gamble over having fun.

[Gaidax]

Once again it's mandatory gamble over having fun.

Eh, I disagree with this assessment. There is something really good about this - it facilitates world activity and IMO that is worth the drawbacks. Implementation is not perfect, but I am ready to pay this price, even if I'd love Blizz to chill there a bit.

Besides, WoW forever was about "gambling" if you put this way - bosses dropping random gear is a thing since forever, compared to that benthic is really something you can reasonably achieve and fast, because you can target drops. For all intents and purposes 5 manapearls is like raid boss kill that has a chance for BiS drop for me and instead of one attempt per week I get 30+ attempts per week. Getting socketed whatever you want there is simply inevitable, I am pretty sure that one month of that and anyone who gives a damn will have it, unless like REALLY unlucky.

[Emerald Archer]

but the gloves and bracers after going through every benthicc item seems to be quite good.

I am glad you did the research and were able to concede the point. +respect

[Tang0]

Sorry, but I still fail to understand the problem. Even if it's 4 pieces, that are easy to obtain. You still have other slots, right? It's not like Mythic Azhara's only drops are boots, and benthic boots exist, making all her drops obsolete. She has that nifty essense and other things.

Worst case is people bring a couple BiS items into the raid and that maybe cuts the number of attempts by what, 10-15%? Is it really such a bad thing?