Why Bfa is the best expansion

[kaminaris]

Some people liked new coke. Doesn’t mean they are right

Bfa is undoubtedly the lowest point of wow history

Nah, that is just your opinion.

[justandulas]

Nah, that is just your opinion.

One shared by more ex wow players than wow has current players.

[Wildberry]

I hope you realize you have no data about who is with majority and who is in minority right?

Ah great, so you want to pull the card of "We have to toss out imperfect metrics because perfect metrics don't exist."

You're being extremely dishonest here in your handling of this issue. Beyond the staple "Well maybe the forums aren't representative of how other people feel?!" routine, you're also pretending that complaints about class design prior to WoD were comparable to complaints about it during and after.

I don't recall, for example, beta forums being swamped with negative feedback about class design across the board. I don't recall Blizzard having to "inb4" themselves during Q&As about underlying philosophies regarding class design.

They're doing that now, but hey it's no different because people have always complained, right? Volume doesn't matter, and if it does, you're going to pretend the volume has been consistent.

[justandulas]

Ah great, so you want to pull the card of "We have to toss out imperfect metrics because perfect metrics don't exist."

You're being extremely dishonest here in your handling of this issue. Beyond the staple "Well maybe the forums aren't representative of how other people feel?!" routine, you're also pretending that complaints about class design prior to WoD were comparable to complaints about it during and after.

I don't recall, for example, beta forums being swamped with negative feedback about class design across the board. I don't recall Blizzard having to "inb4" themselves during Q&As about underlying philosophies regarding class design.

They're doing that now, but hey it's no different because people have always complained, right? Volume doesn't matter, and if it does, you're going to pretend the volume has been consistent.

The amount of delusion with Bfa defenders is mind boggling the hoops they’ll jump through

Whether it’s MAU, addons that track or third party websites we have a rough guesstimate of the population

Yet, the bfa fans will pretend imperfect metrics don’t matter

[msdos]

I'm on Emerald Dream Alliance and we're not known for our PVPing so bragging about that is confusing to me.

[kaminaris]

Ah great, so you want to pull the card of "We have to toss out imperfect metrics because perfect metrics don't exist."

You're being extremely dishonest here in your handling of this issue. Beyond the staple "Well maybe the forums aren't representative of how other people feel?!" routine, you're also pretending that complaints about class design prior to WoD were comparable to complaints about it during and after.

I don't recall, for example, beta forums being swamped with negative feedback about class design across the board. I don't recall Blizzard having to "inb4" themselves during Q&As about underlying philosophies regarding class design.

They're doing that now, but hey it's no different because people have always complained, right? Volume doesn't matter, and if it does, you're going to pretend the volume has been consistent.

Or maybe you don't have good memory or you didn't really read forums before? I recall numerous threads about "class bloat" during MoP. I recall similar amount of thread about class pruning in WoD, Legion, BfA (just as if we had 1 button now).

You see, I have really really good memory, and it is just funny how people forget issues of previous expansions.
Still remember that affli could do 3M dps on protectors in SoO by managing soul swaps. Still remember not being able to get to tank dps on heroic garrosh hellscream because of vengeance. OR disci priest doing high HPS just by dpsing.

And people say MoP class design was perfect, laughable.

If you want to compare expansion success by amount of shitstorms then undoubtedly legion was worst. As I have never seen a shitstorm, since MoP till Now, of a magnitude comparable to camera changes in legion.

[Wildberry]

Or maybe you don't have good memory or you didn't really read forums before? I recall numerous threads about "class bloat" during MoP. I recall similar amount of thread about class pruning in WoD, Legion, BfA (just as if we had 1 button now).

"Well actually it's exactly the opposite of reality because I say so!"

Complaints about "bloat" in MoP were nowhere near comparable to complaints about pruning from WoD onwards. Most class-based complaints were regarding other classes (ie, "why can casters cast and move?!). Beyond obvious differences, gripes about MoP class design didn't dominate the MoP beta forums, for example. Since WoD, the official beta forums are spammed with complaints regarding class design.

Again, the lead game designer never had to "inb4" himself on class design in Q&As, etc.

But hey, with a memory like yours, no wonder you're trying to pretend class design is okay. 2-3 buttons must be much easier for you to keep track of.

I'm done here, you're clearly not posting in good faith. All I can leave you with is that modern class design is garbage, most people agree with me, and even the Devs have finally been forced to admit that they made a mistake.

P.S. I never claimed MoP had "perfect" class design. Have fun knocking down strawmen, though.

[Eggroll]

And people say MoP class design was perfect, laughable.

If you want to compare expansion success by amount of shitstorms then undoubtedly legion was worst. As I have never seen a shitstorm, since MoP till Now, of a magnitude comparable to camera changes in legion.

Then your memory must reaaaally be bad af, because how can you forget the glorious shitstorm that followed Ion's announcement on Polygon that flying will not be added to WoD, nor any following xpac? Seriously.

People coomplained like hell about the valor points grind in MoP, when, compared to Legion AP and Lego grind, it was a joke. And WoD classed WERE horrible. Remember discipline priest in WoD? 1 button class: PW: Shield, PW: Shield, PW: Shield, PW: Shield,PW: Shield,PW: Shield,PW: Shield, PW: Shield, PW: Shield, PW: Shield, .....PW: Shield, PW: Shield, PW: Shield, PW: Shield, ....

Which they never bothered to fix in WoD. The bad thing was, that it was too good not to have in raids, but it was so unpleasant to play. But hey, player enjoyment doesn't mean shit to these devs.

[Gungnir]

This is some thinly veiled bait.

WoW has gone drastically downhill since WoD, but atleast WoD had okay class design.
We've pretty much hit rock bottom at this point, it can't really get worse without Blizzard actually pulling the plug on things.

[lolbubble]

I know this is a troll post, but BFA is nowhere near the best expansion for WoW.

[Wildberry]

WoW has gone drastically downhill since WoD, but atleast WoD had okay class design.

Lol what? WoD class design was literally animated by the same philosophies that are at play in BfA. You can't draw a line between WoD and BfA.

[Laerrus]

Mechagon and Nazjatar are fun, but TBC, WoTLK, MoP and Legion were far better expansions.

[Gungnir]

Lol what? WoD class design was literally animated by the same philosophies that are at play in BfA. You can't draw a line between WoD and BfA.

I mean there's really nothing to say other than you're objectively wrong.
WoD was the start of pruning, now we've had another two expansions that went even deeper with pruning and also moving half of your characters power into an expansion-specific McGuffin.

WoD didn't have artifact weapons, nor did it have azerite armor. While WoD was the weakest class design up until that point, you atleast had a fairly complete baseline kit not dependant on farming an arbitrary resource.

[Wildberry]

I mean there's really nothing to say other than you're objectively wrong.
WoD was the start of pruning, now we've had another two expansions that went even deeper with pruning and also moving half of your characters power into an expansion-specific McGuffin.

WoD didn't have artifact weapons, nor did it have azerite armor. While WoD was the weakest class design up until that point, you atleast had a fairly complete baseline kit not dependant on farming an arbitrary resource.

The entire reason WoD pruning happened was to make way for those auxiliary progression systems. And considering how lackluster those progression systems are in terms of their impact of the core mechanics of a class, there's really not much separating WoD from BfA.

Unless of course, you want to argue that Azerite Armor, for example, is so impactful that it fundamentally changes the core kit.

WoD kits weren't complete either. Things were just ripped out, and you were left with a gaping wound all expansion. We still haven't recovered from that, even with the expansion-specific bandaids. Niche utility has been scrapped. WoD's axing of core rotational abilities paved the way for spec redesigns, etc.

WoD set the stage for BfA. You might not like it, but it's true. And honestly, if you think WoD class design was "okay," you're pretty far removed from reality.

[JoshuaNLG]

BFA has some good aspects, maybe even great, but the majority of it is wank.

[MidnyteTV]

I just can't with this thread. The OP is delusional. There are 3 expansions that can lay claim to being the best, TBC, Wrath, and Legion. WoD, Cata, and BFA are certainly underwhelming with MoP being the most underrated.

Warmode is shit. THe graphics are the same as Legion. The story is meh.

[DesoPL]

Good troll sir, very good. Well probably one of best in this forums.

[riptal]

You like it? Good for you! But telling us it's the best? You probably don't play Wow since many years, don't you?

[Wangming]

The entire reason WoD pruning happened was to make way for those auxiliary progression systems. And considering how lackluster those progression systems are in terms of their impact of the core mechanics of a class, there's really not much separating WoD from BfA.

Unless of course, you want to argue that Azerite Armor, for example, is so impactful that it fundamentally changes the core kit.

WoD kits weren't complete either. Things were just ripped out, and you were left with a gaping wound all expansion. We still haven't recovered from that, even with the expansion-specific bandaids. Niche utility has been scrapped. WoD's axing of core rotational abilities paved the way for spec redesigns, etc.

WoD set the stage for BfA. You might not like it, but it's true. And honestly, if you think WoD class design was "okay," you're pretty far removed from reality.

I think both of you are correct. WoD class design was bad, but the pruning didn't get to the point where it was super boring. I genuinely enjoyed playing my Brewmaster in WoD. Mind you I still enjoyed it less than my least favorite job in FFXIV, but it was still more entertaining than any class in BfA beta.

[MasterHamster]

BFA is great for WoWs current target demographic, which has slowly but surely shifted to short-burst players.
Modern gamers who want a frontloaded, loud and shiny afternoon experience that doesn't drag out too long. Ew I have to do a reputation to unlock a playable race?
8.2 is already fizzling out, just because how frontloaded it is.
Content updates designed for locust gamers. Swarm in, devour in no time, move on.

Make players try the newest update (that does everything it can to make you get to the latest content within 3 hours of logging back in), and hope they throw in some extra cash on cosmetic shit before they are on their way out again. That is WoWs current monetary strategy, because it surely doesn't try to appeal to long-term players (other than mythic raiders, or Cosmetics of Mountcraft completionists)

Sadly I am part of that forgotten group inbetween 4h/week players and mythic raiders, I don't want to get a gold star for logging in, I want to have goals to strive towards that feel worth pursuing. I want to have a reason to strive towards getting better gear because there's a lot of content my characters are too weak to see. When does that ever happen nowadays? Now my only reason to get gear at all is to do the same content I facerolled on a higher difficulty mode. I went to Nazjatar in i365 and it's a freaking breeze. That is not how WoW is supposed to be, no matter how many bullshit lore-explanations we get that we the champion(s) who have defeated dozens of bad guy dragons, old gods and whatnot are meant to be AoEing down mobs like its nothing. That's not good gameplay.

Instead, all the things that used to be enticing rewards has turned into checklists for completionists and collectors. Most players notice this even though a lot of cognitive dissonance and loyalty is in the way of coming to the conclusion a lot of players has figured out. The "rewards" hold no value. Everything gets thrown at you merely for participating. You don't have to learn how to play to get far, the only reason you'd ever have to improve your skill, is if you raid or have a m+ group, the entire rest of the game may as well be one long cutscene.
BFA is good for the modern, drop-in-and-win demographic or m raiders, pretty much everyone else has already left.

It's such a gigantic waste, I legit think that BFA could be so, so much better for (almost) everyone if they rebalanced world- and 5man content to be tougher. Better pacing to how quickly players get gear. Give players time to actually reaping the rewards for spending a bit of time focusing on for example professions. Don't make all world content a one-afternoon deal and dungeons into AoE fests. All the content is there, but it is so utterly wasted because Blizzard is convinced you will unsubscribe if you don't get a new epic every 15 minutes, by plowing through PvE content like it was a D3 Greater Rift.

BFA has a glaringly obvious pacing problem when it comes to rewards, and it is killing player interest.
Saddest thing is that players will keep defending the design that is making people grow bored of the game so quickly, just because it means they get their shiny +10 ilvl rewards faster.