Is the current Benthic gear horrible game design?

[Big Thanks]

Those mythic raiders will have the same 425 gear dude. Why cant you understand that?

Now you lost me.

They will have way better gear than 425. (i dont know the number but you probably do)

[arkanon]

Now you lost me.

They will have way better gear than 425. (i dont know the number but you probably do)

Right now, no, they wont. Even when the raid releases, many of these items are BETTER than what drops in the mythic raid. When the raid does unlock, they will still be leaps and bounds ahead of you in pvp or any other content. That hasnt changed. This gear doesnt help you in that respect at all. And i just cant get my head around why you honestly think it does.

This gear does not give you a boost when compared to anyone else in the game. Bigger numbers is the only accurate comment you have made.

[Spacewalrus2010]

why? What specifically about it do you like? how has it helped you enjoy the game more? do you have access to content you previously did not? Or is it just the catchup part you enjoy?

Not the person you are talking to but I agree with him, so I'll answer to.

I like it because I've managed to get into M+ groups and/or do arena that I otherwise could not. I like that I have some sort of progression on my character other than doing M+ or raiding. And the power increase is pretty great as well.

[Big Thanks]

Right now, no, they wont. Even when the raid releases, many of these items are BETTER than what drops in the mythic raid.

This is false.
The only thing making this items better is the special effects that ONLY work inside the raid. (as far as i understand)
Or is the gem socket alone able to make them better?

When the raid does unlock, they will still be leaps and bounds ahead of you in pvp or any other content. That hasnt changed. This gear doesnt help you in that respect at all. And i just cant get my head around why you honestly think it does.

Dude...im a casual noob scum as are other people.

My "cap" is low key mythics and LFR.

Now imagine there is NO benthic gear ingame
I would be...400 item level...also, all other casual scum noobs ingame would be 400 ilvl.
Meaning all Mythic raiders would kick our asses in PvP.

Now...WITH benthic gear all the noobs have 425 gear.
Meaning we wont be roflstomp in PvP.

[arkanon]

This is false.
The only thing making this items better is the special effects that ONLY work inside the raid. (as far as i understand)
Or is the gem socket alone able to make them better?



Dude...im a casual noob scum as are other people.

My "cap" is low key mythics and LFR.

Now imagine there is NO benthic gear ingame
I would be...400 item level...also, all other casual scum noobs ingame would be 400 ilvl.
Meaning all Mythic raiders would kick our asses in PvP.

Now...WITH benthic gear all the noobs have 425 gear.
Meaning we wont be roflstomp in PvP.

You say "this is false" and then explain why its true. You are very confused. The items are simming as better than Mythic raid loot.

Those same players will still absolutely rip you to bits - a few item lvls wont change that. If you honestly think the only difference between you and a mythic raider / glad pvper is ilvl, you are beyond help.

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Not the person you are talking to but I agree with him, so I'll answer to.

I like it because I've managed to get into M+ groups and/or do arena that I otherwise could not. I like that I have some sort of progression on my character other than doing M+ or raiding. And the power increase is pretty great as well.

There is no power increase. Why do people still fall for this fallacy? The content scales -- M+ increases in difficulty each season to account for the increase in ilvl. PvP is entirely relative, and everyone is benefiting from the same increase as you, meaning nothing has changed for you. You didnt get into the M+ or arena group because of your ilvl. Its like you think you have gained access to some super secret loot that no one else knows about. Causation vs Correlation - the benthic gear had nothing to do with you getting into any group.

[A Chozo]

You say "this is false" and then explain why its true. You are very confused. The items are simming as better than Mythic raid loot.

Those same players will still absolutely rip you to bits - a few item lvls wont change that. If you honestly think the only difference between you and a mythic raider / glad pvper is ilvl, you are beyond help.

There is no power increase. Why do people still fall for this fallacy? The content scales -- M+ increases in difficulty each season to account for the increase in ilvl. PvP is entirely relative, and everyone is benefiting from the same increase as you, meaning nothing has changed for you.

Sounds like you'r the one confused here, dude. Togabito is correct.

Just because someone like Togabito doesn't do M+ or Raiding it doesn't mean his skills are subpar. With Benthic gear, he has the powerlevel to try to go against other players who, independant of their skill, got more gear through pure grinding or carries or whatever.

There is a power increase - world content gets easier, instanced content gets easier, etc. Within a patch, every player notices this increase (or don't, then it's a problem with eyesight).

[Jastall]

TBH I wouldn't waste Manapearls trying to get these items right now, Blizzard might very well nerf them when the raid or Mythic comes out.

[Big Thanks]

You say "this is false" and then explain why its true. You are very confused. The items are simming as better than Mythic raid loot.

Wait a second...stop replying me so fast and think for a second.
Why are this items simming more than mythic quality gear?

A freaking gem socket is equal to 20!!! Item levels?
Or is the "special effects" of benthic gear (that only work inside the raid) making them better?

Blizzard already nerfed the gems. The better gems only give 50 of one stat.

Those same players will still absolutely rip you to bits - a few item lvls wont change that. If you honestly think the only difference between you and a mythic raider / glad pvper is ilvl, you are beyond help.

I can handle my own against good players. I have a few tricks up my sleeve

[arkanon]

Sounds like you'r the one confused here, dude. Togabito is correct.

Just because someone like Togabito doesn't do M+ or Raiding it doesn't mean his skills are subpar. With Benthic gear, he has the powerlevel to try to go against other players who, independant of their skill, got more gear through pure grinding or carries or whatever.

There is a power increase - world content gets easier, instanced content gets easier, etc. Within a patch, every player notices this increase (or don't, then it's a problem with eyesight).

Wrong again. Instanced content does NOT get easier - it is increased in difficulty each season / tier. This is basic 101 stuff guys, Jesus Christ. Blizzard even openly ANNOUNCE the increase.

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Wait a second...stop replying me so fast and think for a second.
Why are this items simming more than mythic quality gear?

A feaking gem socket is equal to 20!!! Item levels?
Or is the "special effects" of benthic gear (that only work inside the raid) making them better?

Blizzard already nerfed the gems. The better gems only give 50 of one stat.



I can handle my own against good players. I have a few tricks up my sleeve

Gem slot and proc effects. Yes, equals more than 20 ilvls currently.

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I can handle my own against good players. I have a few tricks up my sleeve

Good players have a few tricks up their sleeves as well, thats why they are good.

[A Chozo]

Wrong again. Instanced content does NOT get easier - it is increased in difficulty each season / tier. This is basic 101 stuff guys, Jesus Christ. Blizzard even openly ANNOUNCE the increase.

Why in the heavens are you focusing on the rebalance that happens with each patch? Obviously we'r talking about what happens right now.

Right now, my iLvL 380 Paladin is way weaker than my 415 Warrior. It obviously got easier for the Warrior, who got more gear.

[arkanon]

TBH I wouldn't waste Manapearls trying to get these items right now, Blizzard might very well nerf them when the raid or Mythic comes out.

I suspect there will be adjustments made. Anyone spending crazy amounts of time farming these purely for their benefits in raid should probably take your advise. The most likely change i see is making the procs only work open world, and not instanced. But time will tell, they might do something else, or, i guess they could just do nothing.

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Why in the heavens are you focusing on the rebalance that happens with each patch? Obviously we'r talking about what happens right now.

Right now, my iLvL 380 Paladin is way weaker than my 415 Warrior. It obviously got easier for the Warrior, who got more gear.

What got easier? Specifically what is easier? Just get your pally to 415 as well? i am "focusing" on it because a comment was made saying instanced content is now easier because ppl have access to benthic gear - something that is completely untrue. As i mentioned, the difficulty of instanced content increases in relation to the gear available.

[niil945]

That's the problem. For many dps specs it is THE best gear basically making any form of challenging content like mythic+ or mythic raiding obsolete. But hey, at least casuals are happy.

That says absolutely nothing about the state of the game and everything about you. If you think having even 4 (the most I've seen people claim as BiS) items out of 15 sourced from Benthic is obsoleting Mythic+ or Mythic raiding the problem is you're hyperbolic crybaby.

[Big Thanks]

What got easier? Specifically what is easier? Just get your pally to 415 as well? i am "focusing" on it because a comment was made saying instanced content is now easier because ppl have access to benthic gear - something that is completely untrue. As i mentioned, the difficulty of instanced content increases in relation to the gear available.

The difficulty increased because now worse players have better gear BUT (and this you are not understanding) the GAP between a bad player and a good player is now smaller.

What is better? Bad players having good gear? Or the better players being less powerful?
(i take the second option ty very much...)

The gem socket alone is not able to be better than a 20 item level increase. That is impossible after the nerf.

[arkanon]

That's the problem. For many dps specs it is THE best gear basically making any form of challenging content like mythic+ or mythic raiding obsolete. But hey, at least casuals are happy.

Little bit off target there - you assume that casuals are happy with the change.......some are not - how many? no idea, but i know raiding heroic or normal for gear WORSE than welfare epics is not a good thing. So i dont really see any winners hear.

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The difficulty increased because now worse players have better gear BUT (and this you are not understanding) the GAP between a bad player and a good player is now smaller.

What is better? Bad players having good gear? Or the better players being less powerful?

The gem socket alone is not able to be better than a 20 item level increase. That is impossible.

The difficulty increased because they increase the difficulty every season, and the increase is relative to the increase in ilvl. If you found a +5 tough before 8.2, you will still find a +5 tough now - that hasnt changed at all.


I never said the gem socket alone is worth 20 ilvls. You are not reading properly. The gap is not any different - YOU are not understanding. The difference between a gladiator and a random bg player is so much more than gear - gear is a TINY part of the equation. The gap will still be substantial - the gladiator will still absolutely wreck you. When you queue for lfr, you will still be at the bottom of the meter.

If you were 12th on the dps meter before 8.2, you will be 12th on the meter now. If you got globbled by a skilled pvper, you will still get globbled.

[Spacewalrus2010]

There is no power increase. Why do people still fall for this fallacy? The content scales -- M+ increases in difficulty each season to account for the increase in ilvl. PvP is entirely relative, and everyone is benefiting from the same increase as you, meaning nothing has changed for you. You didnt get into the M+ or arena group because of your ilvl. Its like you think you have gained access to some super secret loot that no one else knows about. Causation vs Correlation - the benthic gear had nothing to do with you getting into any group.

No shit its relative lol. I like getting bigger numbers. That's the power increase for me.

And yes, I literally have gained access. Denied consistently for 3 weeks straight until my ilvl was up snuff. If you don't want to believe me, fine. But I know what happened to me, you don't.

[arkanon]

"few pieces".

Yeah nah. People take issue with WQ heroes running around in full Heroic raid quality gear. You know, the second highest difficulty in the game.

Dont forget that some of it is currently simming not just at heroic level, but ABOVE mythic.

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No shit its relative lol. I like getting bigger numbers. That's the power increase for me.

And yes, I literally have gained access. Denied consistently for 3 weeks straight until my ilvl was up snuff.

No, that hasnt granted you anything you didnt have access to before. That is just not true. Causation vs Correlation. You are confused. Bigger when compared to what? If you were 12th on the meter before, you will be 12th on the meter now. Sure, you will be doing 12k dps intead of 11k dps, and if that excites you then more power to you, but you are only more 'powerful' in relation to yourself.

[Big Thanks]

I never said the gem socket alone is worth 20 ilvls. You are not reading properly. The gap is not any different - YOU are not understanding. The difference between a gladiator and a random bg player is so much more than gear - gear is a TINY part of the equation. The gap will still be substantial - the gladiator will still absolutely wreck you. When you queue for lfr, you will still be at the bottom of the meter.

Then why are we arguing?
If a good player can always defeat me...why are we arguing?

And why are you against Benthic gear if this is the case?

The only problem are the special effect that only work inside the raid.

[Big Thanks]

Yeah specifically the boots that offer +crit dmg. That's BiS for many specs isn't it?.

Good luck fishing for that.

Maybe not even 500 pearls can give what you want. Gem socket + specific gear.
Hell, maybe not even 1000 pearls

[arkanon]

Good luck fishing for that.

Maybe not even 500 pearls can give what you want. Gem socket + specific gear.
Hell, maybe not even 1000 pearls

Or, maybe 5 pearls. Thats the issue. You want to assume worst case scenario and put forward ridiculous numbers to make it seem impossible - and yet multiple people got their full bis lost in a couple days. There was even a chap on this very forum who updated his progress working on full gem slots and best stats, and had it completed by lunch time on day 2.

I have hardly played the new stuff at all - maybe 3-5 hours all up? and have 3 bis items that just need upgrading to 425 now. I think you are massively exaggerating the rarity of these procs.....

[Spacewalrus2010]

No, that hasnt granted you anything you didnt have access to before. That is just not true. Causation vs Correlation. You are confused.

Okay I'll bite. What am I confusing here? Why was I denied access from M+ groups beforehand but not now? I've literally had people tell me you are too low in ilvl before...

Bigger when compared to what? If you were 12th on the meter before, you will be 12th on the meter now. Sure, you will be doing 12k dps intead of 11k dps, and if that excites you then more power to you, but you are only more 'powerful' in relation to yourself.

Bigger compared to myself. Yes.